Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

[Tickmeoff]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

Shoryuken trade -> Ultra doesn't work anymore
Shoryuken damage reduced
Sagat overall damage reduced
Rose can Soul Reflect into Soul Throw or Ultra
Dudley is amazing
IT'S TIME TO OIL UP

SSF4 confirmed for amazing.

[jenova_9]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

YouTube- [SSFIV] - Hakan Trailer

YouTube- [SSFIV] Hakan vs Juri GAMEPLAY

L-O-L!!!!!!!!!!

[lionx]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

Hakan is too good, "I lav mah dawterz, they r so pringlez!"

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Thought this was a good article to share, unrelated: Shoryuken - Strategy Corner: The Role of Execution

But outside of that, heres the changes Mr. Wizard posted a bit ago.

Ryu - Ryu's medium and hard dragon punches hit twice now. Damage is down on it, but if you FADC, you only get one hit from it, so damage is down even farther. Trades to ultra from DP are gone, and most trades into ultra from SF4 are gone, but not all. Puts you in a floaty state, and you cant combo afterwards.

Ken - He is not looking good. They didnt give him much. He cannot FADC to Ultra2 normally. He didnt get crazy kicks from previous SF games. They slightly improved his fireball.

Chun li - She got 'infinitely better'. U2 combos easily all day. The upkicks target combo goes into U2, as well as EX legs anywhere on the scree. Its very dangerous. U2 gets all 20 hits every time, if it wiffs for a while and you get hit by the very end of it, you still take the full damage.

Guile - He seems to have been given nothing. Sonic Hurricane, his U2 is not good. Super into U2 is the only known combo into it. Down+Taunt puts on glasses, but doesnt give him any buffs or advantages.

Zangief - Very similar. He could lariat trade into U2 in earlier builds, but he cannot anymore. Rufus and tall characters can block his lariat low and punish with a crouching RH.

Rose - She can juggle off soul reflect into air throw or U1 or ex fireball. U2 is very good. Can corner juggle into orbs. Each orb can hit once before it dissipates, including on block. They do about 20% damage each on full ultra. Wiz noted that he needs to check what happens when projectiles hit them. When the orbs activate, there is a delay before you can do special moves again, including throw. They delay felt like 3-4 seconds. Orbs cross up very easy. Rose seemed powerful.

Blanka - Seemed the same, new ultra isnt that great, can get thrown out of it.

Honda - Noticed no changes, cant jump on reaction to U2.

Dhalsim - He seemed the same. U2 hit box is prttty small. Super hard to hit.

Balrog - U2 jumpable on reaction to activation. His U2 is bad, it has terrible range. Seemed too hard to land to be worth giving up U1.

Vega - Seemed the same. His Claw stays on a lot longer now, though. Ex dive off the wall doesnt go through opponent anymore.

Sagat - He does marginal less damage overall. Scar-uppercut does double damage, nothing more. If you do scar move, you cant do it again until you uppercut, but you can store the powered up state the entire round if you want. forward + RH still juggle state.

Bison - J.Strong into U2 works. Its not a charge motion so its very handy. U2 is a blockable stomp attack, and it can crossup! It hits hard, too! No known nerfs.

Rufus - Ex messiah kick is not as good, but still good. A few frames less on invincibility, and less damage. EX snake strike damage is way down. U2 doesnt seem to combo well. U2 is good anticrossup or antiair, but thats about it. Has to work for wins now

Fuerte - Fuertes normals are all faster now. U2 is extremely good.

Viper - No notable changes. She can U2 off EX seismo if you are fast. The recovery from U2 is ok. Rumors of mp thunder nerf are untrue or reversed, if its slower its only a frame or two.

Abel - He has a faster c.hk. U2 cant combo but its fast and has armor if you hold the button, it looks to be very good.

Guy - Feels slow. Has cool chain combos into super. EX spin kick is vertical. EX shoulder is his best move, super fast.

Cammy - Cannon drill 'got a little better'. Uppercut damage nerfed pretty hard. U2 is terrible. U2 can be broken by using breaker.

Fei - Changes not apparent. Counter ultra can be broken by a breaker.

Gouken - No known nerfs. U2 still blockable, but backthrow into 5 hits of it into wallbounce into more fun works.

Sakura - Her crossup j.mk is back. Very good crossup. Makes her feel more like sakura again. U2 is the best choice. Its two ultras in one, okay damage, easy to combo, can aim it up or forward. EX hurricane to ultra is simple as hell.

Dan - Dan is secretly way better now, he got what he needed. Uppercut fadc U2 is strong. His fireball goes 60% of the screen now. The rest seems untouched, but this is 'all he needed' to be a contender.

Akuma - no known nerfs. Many of the nerfs from earlier builds were reverted. Infinite is gone, but you can still combo after s.hk. Jab cannot link to HK anymore, so you cant loop it. Lv2 focus into new ultra wiffs, but works from Lv3 focus. EX airfireball into U2 works.

Gen - Only nerfs found so far, no chain combos, no mk .kick to hands at all. ex wall dive lost some invincibility.

Seth - Everything is the same, except his focus attack takes longer to hit lv2 now. Its not very good. U2 can combo anywhere you could combo stomps and does good damage.

Juri - Kara throw is good with HP. Wiz could only find a 5 hit Custom Combo in U1 mode without FADC. U1 mode is really long in duration. EX wheelkick seems nearly instant startup. Hitpoints seemed close to Ibuki's, but it was hard to tell.

T.Hawk - Hawkdive is his armor breaker. Hawk Upper cannot be FADCed at all, ever, at any point. U2 is bad, very very hard to hit. Feels slower than Zangief but stronger. His normals are very good.

Adon - He seems very weak. Both ultras are hard to use. Jaguar Tooth and Jaguar Kick are both unsafe on block. Air Jag-kick might be safe. EX jag kick is safe. Has a very good overhead though, one of the best.

Deejay - He seems decent. Nothing too bad, nothing too good. Reminds you of ST in that way.

Cody - He can only FADC tornado on first hit and the tornado wont come out. He cannot combo ultra after it. Has 3 levels of charge on his Zonk Knuckle, and its really really good and annoying. He says BINGO everytime he does it. You can combo into Zonk. HK ruffian is good.

Dudley - Not much to add to JWong's video, but he is probably #1 in the game.

Makoto - EX grab has 1 hit of armor! Outside of this, nothing to add to JWong's video.

Ibuki - Slide does not go under fireballs, air knife doesnt cancel out fireballs.

Hakan - Seems OK at first. Looks like hellboy red and is kinda fat. Has spiky hair. Has a 360 move where he puts you in his arms and sqeezes you out with oil slicked body. you fly across the screen at a 45 degree angle. He can slide along the ground face first and hit punch during for a followup (only when oiled up). Has an air grab where he belly flops. DP+K puts on more oil.
He takes out both hands and dumps oil on himself and it looks funny. He then glows white. When he has oil, he is 200% better. putting oil on takes half a second, and its duration based. EX oil lasts a long time. In non-oil mode, he is like gief. When he is in Oil Mode, he can chain everything, like c.lk x4 into mp. Moves in oil mode have more range, including 360. Front and backdash are better in oil mode too. All of his pokes have neutral and toward versions. Has a 'trap' ultra, where he lays down, and if you step on him, he grabs you. You cannot touch him at all, even if not attacking. You slip on his stomach like its ice. Then he 69s you as you slide along the ground and you fly out his buttocks.

The 2nd ultra is comedy as well. 720 motion, throws you up in the air and you board the OIL COASTER. You ride him going around his body till you are ejected into a wall at the end.

His super is double fireball with kick. Its a leaping grab thats crouchable, like Alex DDT he leaps at you.

So in the end, Fe and Geni got screwed even though they were never that strong to begin with. At least Cammy's Ultra 1 is still good, Fei's is like...god....

[Ufgt]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

Yah, my poor Cammy, will probably sit low mid to bottom tier in Super. U2 for both Fei and Cammy getting beat by armor breaks is hiariously awful. Relatively useless. Waiting on full list of changes to decide where to put Cammy. She didn't need much to get better, but DP dmg nerf will hurt her. Safer SA might be good, but still focus bait, so not nearly as useful as safe SA in HDR.

Good to hear about Sak, she'll be a contender now instead of bottom tier. Crossup mk is all she really needed to be good, and her U2 is good.

3s characters sound strong, but mainly because played by Jwong, so we see about 70% of those characters potentials already.

Hakan sounds hilarious, will probably hate him though.

Poor Fei and Gen though. Like they needed nerfs to begin with.

Funny how some of the things I found awful in the Vanilla are taken out of Super... makes you wonder.

Pretty stoked for this release, hope there aren't too many oversights like in Vanilla (*cough cough* HP Snake Strike *cough cough*)

[Karinya]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

Are those comments based on a confirmed final build, or still in development?

Actually, I guess it doesn't matter anymore anyway. With PSN/XBL they can patch after release.

Being able to tweak balance after release was what gave Starcraft its lasting MP popularity, sooner or later a fighting game company is going to catch on that they can do the same thing. Lasting popularity drives lasting sales (or at least it did for Starcraft), so it could easily be worth the effort for them.

[lionx]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

According to some interview, they say that this is the final build. They are going to submit the game to Microsoft/Sony for approval very soon.

And i really doubt they would patch anything...for various reasons. They even said DLCs outside of their initial bonus package is a maybe even. Balance patches are another beast.

[Mog]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

It's all about Dan

[lionx]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

Wakeup Shoryuken tells more SSF4 details : News : EventHubs.com

More balance crap.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

Why did Dan ever become a serious character to play?

He's meant to be a joke.

[jenova_9]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

DLC/patches on the gameplay rarely if ever happens, because it would conflict with which version is used for tournament play, they would likely save any character tweaks for a future sequel.

they did a patch for a character in Mvc2 but that game is cheese anyway. I dunno why they bothered tweaking 1-2 characters in that game.

[Karinya]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

DLC/patches on the gameplay rarely if ever happens, because it would conflict with which version is used for tournament play, they would likely save any character tweaks for a future sequel.

Well, obviously, Capcom should mandate (or at least encourage) that tournaments and online play use the latest version, the same way the SC ladder did (and the same way MMOs do). If online play requires the latest version, or even requires the same version, then updating to the latest version before playing online will be routine and everyone will get used to it, just like they do in strategy games and MMOs. PSN/XBL doesn't just make this possible, it makes it easy, practically automatic (for people whose systems have any online connection at all, which an increasing percentage of modern users do).

I don't follow shooters closely enough to know if they do the same kind of thing, but I wouldn't be surprised. There's bound to be map balance issues, even if the characters/weapons/etc. are fine by themselves, and players will probably want new maps even if the old maps are fine, just like in RTS.

Anyway, the point of improving the balance of your game is that it's an *improvement* and therefore players who want to play a well-balanced game will want to use it, so you probably don't really have to slap them into it. Some people will want to just keep abusing Sagat (or whoever, I'm just picking him because he's been overpowered in several past games), but if a majority of players *and* the devs agree that he's too strong, people who refuse to patch will be seen as abusing a flaw in the game -- which they are.

Nobody would leave major balance flaws uncorrected by patches anymore... in an RTS, because Starcraft raised the bar and now you can't get away with that (you have to at least try to fix your game balance or become a crappy joke of a game). Ditto MMOs. Sooner or later someone will raise the bar for balance in fighting games, specifically, correcting imbalances that the players discover after release. I hope it will be sooner and there's no reason it can't be Capcom that does it.

[Ufgt]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

Snip.

1) As far as I know, there are no capcom sponsored tournaments. This includes SBO and Evo. So capcom doesn't really have a say as to which version to run.

2) Everything you are saying is based on the assumption that devs are trying to create perfect balance. In SFIVs case, Ono has stated that some characters are meant to be stronger than others (will find reference tonight when I get home from work).

3) Fighting games are highly resistant to patches. Look at the various 3s region boards as an example. Unblockables and resets present in older boards but later removed in newer boards did not become the standard. The community continued to use the older boards.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea to try to patch fighters, but balance is near impossible to attain. Like fps', mmos, and rts', new patches will always shift the teirs instead of compressing them. It is arguably easier to balance other genres because there are so many different variables that can be adjusted that balance can be attained through variety. That variety cannot be achieved in fighters. A bad matchup will be a bad matchup no matter how you look at it and the only way to get past bad matchups is to counter pick.

[lionx]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

Is the Gamestop Nationals a Capcom sponsored event? I know Seth Killian was there, but then again so he was also in Norcal Reigonals. Capcom did say that its up to the players to find everything however..and the fighting game community was always more about the players than the devs.

Also:

Capcom's Seth Killian Talks Super Street Fighter 4 - Shacknews - PC Games, PlayStation, Xbox 360 and Wii video game news, previews and downloads

So we know Sagat is stronger than a lot of the other characters. There's always going to be winners and losers in any balance chart. Nobody likes to hear that, but that's part of what makes Street Fighter interesting.

Difference in character strength is part of the nature of a SF game. It's something we don't try to avoid.

They really don't care about the balance (at least the way we see it) as long as the game is fun and diverse.

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The only way a fighter will ever get a patch would be another version of the game(similar to guilty gear). For example, there were Crouch Cancel Infinites in SFAlpha 3. It made Vism very dominant so Capcom released a Street Fighter Alpha 3 Upper...with more characters, fixed bugs and the Infinite...no one plays that version. Same for SFA2 GOLD which weakened Custom Combos/Alpha Counters or Capcom vs SNK 2 EO which removed that Roll Canceling bug and other minor fixes.

No one plays them and everyone sticks with the original arcade release. Many would even stop playing say SF Third Strike if it was re-balanced or remade. Outside of that, patches might not transfer well to Arcade cabs(the soul of fighting games...not a PC or Console), with different patches being a hassle to install in which Ono has touched upon.

An example of one that semi-worked though would be Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix which has gathered a following in the states....but in the end there is still a huge old Super Turbo group that refuses to touch HDR and fractured the community not to mention the fact that since theres no Arcade release, the Japanese don't give two shits about it.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

Why would it be too hard for Capcom to patch and update versions of Street Fighter when Namco and Sega have for Soul Calibur, Tekken and Virtua Fighter?

I remember Soul Calibur II starting with version B in the US and ending in version D in the US, the console version was version F. Not only that, the Kumite Mode in VF4 and Conquest Mode of SCII allowed them to get direct data on popular play styles as well as allowing them to see what got exploited because these modes created AI builds based directly of cumulative action made by the player.

I had an Ivy that could be by other players through SCII's Conquest mode that almost perfectly emulated my style of play and would kick people's asses for me. right down to the air grabs, juggles and various moves I would buffer Summon Suffering into. It was great, I'd walk into the mall and a friend would come out of the arcade, look at me and say "fuck you" because my version of Ivy just kicked his ass.

And because of that kind of data from various players being stored away in the game, things for the home version were tweaked, some of the old arcade exploits were gone.

I think Capcom is full of shit on this one, what Sega and Namco do is not beyond their capacity and its rather disappointing that they don't use Conquest/Kumite-style modes in the online modes these games now have.

[Karinya]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

I had forgotten that some places still have arcades -- I haven't seen a functioning arcade in years. (And then it was mostly specialized-hardware machines that were difficult for consoles to compete with, like DDR -- before they started making DDR pads for home use -- and pinball machines.)

Some arcade machines do allow software to be changed relatively easily -- the Neo Geo was designed for it -- but that's probably the exception, and if most arcade machines are hardwired, then yes, improving balance would be a bitch. But how much of the money is still in arcades, really, relative to consoles? ISTM that an arcade-centric business model is doomed, because the arcades themselves are vanishing from all but the largest urban centers (and even those probably have only a few per city). If the future of the industry is in console and online play, and all consoles have hard drives and the vast majority have Internet connections, *then* how hard is it to distribute a patch?


I'm disappointed to see a developer take a "nothing is perfect so we're not even going to try" attitude to balance, though. Sure, balance is a moving target. That's no excuse for not even aiming at it.

Unbalance doesn't make the game more "interesting" unless you're trying to humiliate your little brother by beating him with Dan. Non-competitive characters are not played in serious competition, which reduces the variety and interest of the game. If you really want a handicap system that can be used to give yourself more challenge/improve matches between players of different skill levels/whatever, just make one. Doing it through character imbalance is confusing and reduces the number of options available to people playing to win.