Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

[Ufgt]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

The issue at the heart of the debate is what lionx and armando have already stated: Players should be rewarded with more damage if the combo is longer and more difficult to do. Combos involving multiple 1 frame links should, in theory, do more damage than SRK FADC Ultra. Damage scaling is a lazy way to create balance because the character's move list, combo potential, and damage output has not been throughly analyzed.

Like I said before, fighting games require a delicate balance between mind games and execution. Emphasize the former and you have a game more akin to Chess. Emphasize the latter and you have a game more akin to playing the piano.

It takes patience and intelligence to land the first hit. It takes manual dexterity and dedication to practice to maximize your damage. Both are important in fighting games and that's what makes them unique.

Another gripe I have with SFIV deals with dizzies and how it is handle. Dizzies do not reset the damage scaling, which means that it's usually more beneficial to trip/throw your opponent to put him in an untechable situation (ie. Vortex) instead of landing your biggest, most damaging combo. This is so unintuitive it hurts.

[jenova_9]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

well less emphasis on big combos is a GOOD thing, It's a nice change of pace from the victory just handed to those that do the biggest combos.

Because if their combo empties the rest of the bar, the other player might as well cross their arms. Some combos that drain 10-20% damage are okay. but 40-100% damage combos are just too cheesy to have a interesting match where the tide can change constantly.

big damaging combos are all flash and virtually no room to keep everyone guessing who's going to win. Well both flavors have their positive points, but not every fighting game has to treat longer combos and damage how it was before games like SFIV.

People who plan on enjoying SSFIV will get used to the differences anyway, just as some are already used to SFIV.

[lionx]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

Unrelated note: Playing online has made my offline game suffer horribly with timing. I hate playing online when its not GGPO -_-

You don't get it if you think the game is ALL ABOUT COMBOS. The fact that people can even start a combo is because you made a mistake or left an opening. The severe damage scaling in SFIV helps the loser out when it should not. So then there is never a situation where you actually lose that bad in, and only dumbs down the reward for someone playing well to be able to land that combo in the first place.

If that player was so open to have a combo empty their bar, they SHOULD cross their arms and think about why they were so open. Not be babied through it by some artificial game mechanic. Besides...issues like these is what makes the game look about the same as it was a year ago...theres almost no change and everything is found out.

Again...its not about BIG COMBOS...its about artificially penalizing the guy who is playing better. Like Ufgt said...in dizzies in SFIV, you are better just tripping them and giving them a chance to come back and therefore at the same time, somehow take away the reward of landing the dizzy with scaling damage. In older games, Dizzy is a reward for good play to land a free combo...in SFIV it doesn't even feel like a good thing at times.

Same with knockdowns with big mashable reversal windows. Theres never an advantageous position for playing well, its all 50/50 so the loser doesn't have to feel so bad and creates a whole slew of balance problems as well as the feel of a 'fake offense'.

Good damage scaling prevents possible infinites and 50-100% damage combos from turning a fight into a one man circus.

You clearly have not seen that Abel video with the combo at the end...it can go on forever even with that damage scaling. Infinites have nothing to do with damage scaling at all i have no idea why you bring that up. Infinites are usually frame data and/or another game mechanic...but definitely not damage scaling related.

And you can't develop a real mind game if a match only takes a few hits/combos to end. You might as well be playing rock-paper-scissors at that point. Excessive combo damage is just as bad as giving everyone too few hit points (or the equivalent).

So...i don't get it...if you want all mindgames you might as well play RPS which has no execution barrier and all mindgames.

Besides, too few hitpoints is never an issue. Life is just about how many mistakes you can make. In oldschool SF you had very little life too but is that game stupid? What about Bushido Blade? Some games you can make more mistakes than others.

[jenova_9]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

but just because SFIV does things differently, doesn't make it bad or less than the other games. It's up to personal preference. also damage scaling helps eliminate any possible infinites found later that may end up breaking the balance.

[lionx]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

I am going to say that the way SFIV currently does it, is a bad way of doing things. I know that certain things are personal preference though. I just feel severely limited in having fun with such a game..i only really play it because everyone else does.

also damage scaling helps eliminate any possible infinites found later that may end up breaking the balance.

Again this isn't true. That Abel infinite has been found and done on human hands before(although not as fancy), and there was one including Fei Long comboing into his Chicken Wing on Abel/Seth all day long. Just because theres damage scaling doesn't mean theres suddenly no infinites. It just takes more time to kill the other guy...and whos to say that i won't keep doing it anyway if i can run the timer?

Damage scaling has NOTHING to do with infinite combos themselves.

[Ufgt]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

Damage scaling does not prevent infinites (re: ROM in MvC2). Once a combo reaches a certain length, each subsequent hit will do 1 pixel of damage. This doesn't prevent the combo my continuing.

Another example: Slayer in GGXX had a throw infinite that led to a dizzy that lead to an Instant Kill. Damage scaling exists in that combo as well, but that didn't stop slayer players from doing it. Again, damage scaling does nothing to prevent it.

[Armando]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

but just because SFIV does things differently, doesn't make it bad or less than the other games. It's up to personal preference.

Hint: People tend to prefer balanced and fun games.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

I really just have a hard time going back to straight-up one-on-one fights in Capcom games, I feel one-on-one is better left to the 3D fighters of today (well except DoA series never counts as a fighter, just a boob jiggle sim). 3D fighters tend to be a bit more technical and balanced.

I like my Capcom fighters in the Vs. vien now, I've been that way ever since X-Men Vs. Street Fighter. Plus I hear Tatsunoko Vs. Capcom penalizes people who disconnect to avoid a loss recorded by not letting them match up against players that don't rage-disconnect.

[lionx]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

I am going to try to move this back on topic...

Heres some gameplay footage i uploaded a while back:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q47hDptLGvA"]YouTube- [Supert Street Fighter IV] Dudley vs Sagat - GAMEPLAY[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jZELQa-9BA"]YouTube- [Super Street Fighter IV] - Makoto vs. Ibuki GAMEPLAY[/ame]

[cidbahamut]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

1. What the hell did they do with Dudley's voice? That's not at all what he's supposed to sound like.

2. Hippos!

[jenova_9]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

Hint: People tend to prefer balanced and fun games.

"balanced" and "fun" are purely subjective since everyone has their own opinion whats more balanced or what's more fun, obviously.

[DakAttack]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

I really just have a hard time going back to straight-up one-on-one fights in Capcom games, I feel one-on-one is better left to the 3D fighters of today (well except DoA series never counts as a fighter, just a boob jiggle sim). 3D fighters tend to be a bit more technical and balanced.

DoA is my favorite fighting series, but it's hard to say it's NOT a boob jiggle sim. I don't understand the appeal of the island games. Just do a google search for boobs. Still, I thoroughly enjoy every addition to the DOATEC universe they make.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

DoA is my favorite fighting series, but it's hard to say it's NOT a boob jiggle sim. I don't understand the appeal of the island games. Just do a google search for boobs. Still, I thoroughly enjoy every addition to the DOATEC universe they make.

I'm going to that the Heavy Rain defense argument of "Its a game where there's no pressure to win" except that it really applies here. Its just a collection game with various mini-games and a nice volleyball game attached to it. Kinda felt like Virtua Tennis in some respects, well, at least the first one did as that's the only one I've played.

Its also rather easy on the eyes.

TL:DR version - It has breasts, the relaxing sound of the ocean and you collect skimpy outfits for virtual girls to wear.

People can pretend to not understand those games, but men and women get sexualized just about equally in all games all the time these days. Everyone can pretend to downplay these games, but someone is buying them.

As for the DOA fighting games and its extended universe, it an die for all I care. Especially once they started inserting DoA characters in Ninja Gaiden and making these horrific stories for that series. I miss the NES era of that series so much. Much better storytelling for all the sadism they threw at me, especially in the first and third games.

[lionx]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!



Super Street Fighter IV (Xbox 360) exclusive preview | NowGamer

But it isn't just old friends, with Capcom first revealing new character Juri, a wicked tae kwon do-based cyborg, before letting us get our hands on the final fighter on the roster Hakan. A huge red Turkish wrestler who lathers himself with oil during fights, Hakan sports some of the most hilarious Ultras we've ever seen.

LIVING UP TO ALL THE HYPE!!!!

[Karinya]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

Execution is part of the game play, but it isn't part of the game balance. If the only thing keeping a move "balanced" is that the opponent might screw up the execution... then it isn't balanced at all. Therefore, moves and combos should be balanced under the assumption that players know how to perform them reliably (and then the game becomes mostly about knowing the right move for your situation, including anticipating your opponent's moves).

Of course people take damage when they make mistakes, but the damage taken should be proportional to the mistake, which is precisely *why* landing a footsie jab shouldn't be comboable into 50% damage. Combos let you squeeze big damage into a small window; that's the problem with them.

If that means you're often better off doing a shorter combo... that's not really a problem. Players will try to choose the best option that is available to them and that's what the game should be balanced around.

Sometimes some combos are *so* difficult to execute that the devs didn't even realize they would be possible, and thus, don't balance them, and thus, they are brokenly good. But that's a *flaw* with the game where it happens, not a design feature. You shouldn't expect it to be imitated.