Last FFXIII trailer = Greatest new Final Fantasy!!!

[Kailea]

Re: Last FFXIII trailer = Greatest new Final Fantasy!!!

Hint hint, Kailea.

it was more a comment to the first video with the song in it...... it has been played out along with that dance soooo much its sickening.

[jenova_9]

Re: Last FFXIII trailer = Greatest new Final Fantasy!!!

it was more a comment to the first video with the song in it...... it has been played out along with that dance soooo much its sickening.

oh it's still new to me! only watched two videos that had it.

oh here is the full FFXIII walkthrough

http://ff13.in/


but it's in Japanese.


someone already has the game, with photos.

spoilers

http://www.uffsite.net/news/302/ff13...t-the-web.html

[Kailea]

Re: Last FFXIII trailer = Greatest new Final Fantasy!!!

oh my god the 360 ruined FFXIII, it looks so crappy

/sarcasm off

btw in the pic of the box, anyone notice the sticker with FFXIV on it?

I am sure that's for the bonus thing they where talking about no?

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Last FFXIII trailer = Greatest new Final Fantasy!!!

Well my JP friend told me not to even buy this until it hits the bargain bin. I didn't have the heart to tell him that we don't really have bargain bins anymore. lol He feels that 12 is better. It's gorgeous but the game, in total, is not impressing him so far.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Last FFXIII trailer = Greatest new Final Fantasy!!!

Well, Japanese gamers were rigid to FFXII at first, too. I think FFXII ended up being so different that it destroyed a lot of expectations in Japan. In the west people tend to hold on to expectation no matter how insane or unfair it is to keep holding on to them.

But you know what they're really comparing, regardless of which side of they pond they're on? Story.

If anyone wants to say RPGs are about story, feel free to be wrong. The only ones that are about story are the bad ones that think that's what an RPG is about. RPGs are about character building and exploration - no matter how story-driven or alignment-driven they might be. If I just wanted a story, the fantasy novel section at Barnes and Noble has plenty to offer me.

Really, have you ever heard anyone pick apart FFX-2 on its gameplay? I seriously never have. Just story. When someone finally becomes willing to criticize it on gameplay, I'll happily listen to them. If they continue to do it on story and character, and they always do, I'm just inclined to ignore them entirely.

Some thing with FFXII. And even when it comes to story criticism, its pretty faulty when you lay it against the world its trying to portray and how much lore that game has stuffed in it. FFXII's story is all about the details and politics, if you come in looking for a standard emotional JRPG tale, you were asking for disappointment and had no prior knowledge of Invalice.

[Balfree]

Re: Last FFXIII trailer = Greatest new Final Fantasy!!!

RPGs aren't just about story but the really good ones usually have the best stories...

[cidbahamut]

Re: Last FFXIII trailer = Greatest new Final Fantasy!!!

If anyone wants to say RPGs are about story, feel free to be wrong. The only ones that are about story are the bad ones that think that's what an RPG is about. RPGs are about character building and exploration - no matter how story-driven or alignment-driven they might be. If I just wanted a story, the fantasy novel section at Barnes and Noble has plenty to offer me.

Wow.
So you'd be perfectly content to just have the game engine and an endless line of baddies to slice through and call it a Role Playing Game?

I'm sorry but I can't wrap my head around such an outlandish viewpoint. The best RPGs I've played have been ones with a damn good story to tell.

[Armando]

Re: Last FFXIII trailer = Greatest new Final Fantasy!!!

If anyone wants to say RPGs are about story, feel free to be wrong. The only ones that are about story are the bad ones that think that's what an RPG is about. RPGs are about character building and exploration - no matter how story-driven or alignment-driven they might be.

Seems to me that's simply what you value most.

RPGs have usually been characterized for having both. Just like you can get a good plot out of a book, I can get character building and exploration in all sorts of games - it doesn't even have to be of the RPG genre. It can be some generic MMO, for that matter. The plot does most of the work in giving the player a reason (and thus motivation) to continue to improve his character. Some games (e.g. MMOs) have excellent character building and exploration potential, but they have little else hooking the player to the game; if the player gets tired of grinding, it's game over.

If the game has shitty plot but exceptional gameplay, the player might put up with the plot.
If the game has shitty gameplay but exceptional plot, the player might put up with the gameplay. (In fact some players simply want the plot and the grind is just a necessary evil to them.)
Not everyone values the same things in the genre, but when a game is seriously lacking in one or the other it generally doesn't fare so well in general.

Character building was extremely limited in early RPGs, but people still played them. Super Mario RPG barely lets you develop characters at all, because level means fairly little in that game throughout the playthrough, there are anti-grinding measures and equipment is mostly simple and given to you sequentially.

In fact I would go so far as to say character building is not at all necessary for an RPG. An RPG can have good gameplay without a focus on developing your character however you want. Other things can ruin the game too; high and forced encounter rates or bland combat can ruin any gameplay experience for many.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Last FFXIII trailer = Greatest new Final Fantasy!!!

If the game has shitty plot but exceptional gameplay, the player might put up with the plot.
If the game has shitty gameplay but exceptional plot, the player might put up with the gameplay.

Hopefully you could count more of the former than the latter. But again, "bad" RPGs aren't discussed in terms of game design, only story. And when they can't say anything about the story (probably because they don't know much) the game design argument simply boils down to " it sucks." You know, very specific stuff.

When I come in and say Xenosaga II sucks, its because everyone's skill growth starts from the same place and the characters themselves have little job class identity between them. If you're going to have different characters, they need to be more than a palate swap for each other. Yet that's the premise of its design. Its was almost like the same people didn't even make the second game.

FFX and FFXII had a similar character-building scheme, though on a grid. The grid was used to define what your characters started out as. Tidus' path initially makes him a rather excellent Time Mage, but you can later take him down Auron's path or another to define him to your liking. Blathier and Fran start out as ranged attackers unless you feel another weapon is better, but there are certainly situations in which ranged skills are needed, and Vaan and Penelo won't be there any time soon, so its good to develop that for them.

Of course, what's the fun of Final Fantasy Tactics? Pretty much character building entirely. The story is great, but through those hours and hours of battle, you've come to care about those other characters not because of the story, but because of the work you put into those characters. When and if they permanently die, it hurts, doesn't it?

Its nothing new, Fire Emblem was doing that long before Tactics Ogre and FFT came along, but when you put in the work, you start to feel something for that character you created.

Totally possible for that to take place in games where the story is even less emphasized? So can I play an RPG where there's an endless horde of enemies and an end goal like "defeat the warlock that lives atop this mountain?" Yeah, totally can. The story becomes that of my experience and how I chose to reach that goal. So long as I have options on how I get there and what I am by the time I defeat him, I'm fine with little story along the way.

[Armando]

Re: Last FFXIII trailer = Greatest new Final Fantasy!!!

But again, "bad" RPGs aren't discussed in terms of game design, only story.

What is your basis for this? Who are you targetting here? The average gamer? Game reviews in the media? This is an honest question, not sarcasm. I certainly don't look at RPGs only from a plot standpoint. I know many people that got turned off by Chrono Cross's element system for example, not the story. I know people that hated the low steal rates against bosses in FFIX. I disliked FFVIII's junction system to the point that I didn't play it long enough to let the plot take off, because I probably wouldn't have finished it regardless. And we've been over the seething hatred I hold for games with random encounters and no Repel-like items.

I like my RPGs plot-heavy, with minimal grinding/timesink requirements and an interesting combat system (read: not Active Time Battle, unless it's Chrono Trigger.) Robust character growth systems are optional for me.

FFX and FFXII had a similar character-building scheme, though on a grid. The grid was used to define what your characters started out as. Tidus' path initially makes him a rather excellent Time Mage, but you can later take him down Auron's path or another to define him to your liking

FFX's gameplay wasn't without flaws though. Being able to pre-charge all your overdrives for all your characters + Aeons and then just unload them on bosses was hideously lame. The sphere grid was also an excellent system, up until they decided that you could traverse the whole grid with every character. The more work you put into it at endgame, the more you'll homogenize your characters.

EDIT: For that matter, FFXII seemed a bit too grind-heavy during those first 15 hours I played it (had to drop it because of college.) I would constantly find myself short on money or somewhat underpowered in relation to the enemies as the game progressed. Surely there are things that I could've done better, but that happens in all RPGs - the second playthrough is always much easier. I found myself waiting significant periods of time between plot points, too, and I'm sure that game is not lacking in plot.

Of course, what's the fun of Final Fantasy Tactics? Pretty much character building entirely. The story is great, but through those hours and hours of battle, you've come to care about those other characters not because of the story, but because of the work you put into those characters. When and if they permanently die, it hurts, doesn't it?

Again, different strokes for different folks. You appreciate the gameplay more. I appreciated the plot more, even though I also think the gameplay was brilliant. I hold FFT's plot in the highest esteem, second only to Xenogears (which is another game that had tedious/mediocre gameplay but a plot so brilliant I couldn't let it go.)

Totally possible for that to take place in games where the story is even less emphasized? So can I play an RPG where there's an endless horde of enemies and an end goal like "defeat the warlock that lives atop this mountain?" Yeah, totally can. The story becomes that of my experience and how I chose to reach that goal. So long as I have options on how I get there and what I am by the time I defeat him, I'm fine with little story along the way.

In my opinion a game can have very minimal plot and still be perfectly accepted as long as the total playtime is reasonably long and the gameplay isn't stupid (see Super Mario RPG.) On the contrary, it seems that the problems usually start when the game IS plot driven but the pacing is dreadfully slow, the plot is bad, or the plot is going right over your head. People tend not to appreciate those things very much.

[Ketaru]

Re: Last FFXIII trailer = Greatest new Final Fantasy!!!

Since you brought up Final Fantasy X, it always seemed like an example to me of how story and gameplay can successfully, or unsuccessfuly intersect. Good RPGs are often about exploration, but exploration is often about finding out some of the side storylines that aren't being given a lot of emphasis in the main storyline.

I always felt Final Fantasy X was a failure, in that sense. To a degree, many other RPGs try to steer you along a general road to take, but X was unabashedly linear, with the only deviation being Blitzball for a majority of the game.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Last FFXIII trailer = Greatest new Final Fantasy!!!

On the contrary, it seems that the problems usually start when the game IS plot driven but the pacing is dreadfully slow, or when the game is plot-driven but the plot is bad.

A lot of games are plot driven in terms of progression, though. In most FF games we have a halfway point where we can start doing other things and I think most of us accept that as OK, though FFXII lets you veer off the main plot almost as soon as you get enough people to make that worthwhile. FFXIII seems to veer from the midpoint for that from impressions given.

I think FFVIII also was one that let you waltz off to do side jobs along the way akin to the more classic FF games, nothing that was required, but usually rewarding for doing so. Also, the key it getting the most out of junctioning starts with Quistis. Skip everything and max out Quetzecotl's card abilities first. This ability will not only gain you cards for Triple Triad, but also allow you to convert those cards into items for upgrades, Blue Magic and Junction magic later in the game. After a while you'll never have to draw spells again save for random encounters with PuPu the alien (who you want to draw the hell out of anyway).

I always felt Final Fantasy X was a failure, in that sense. To a degree, many other RPGs try to steer you along a general road to take, but X was unabashedly linear, with the only deviation being Blitzball for a majority of the game.

There was also the monster arena, but you had to first reach the Calm Lands to get access. Monster Arena is where the true megabosses of the game are. Still need to steal from Omega to even get some of the best weapon mods in the game, though. He was a pushover, but the Omega dungeon was unquestionably the best place to grind.