Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep TGS 09 Trailer

[Armando]

Re: Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep TGS 09 Trailer

Just beat the game (finally) so now I can read this thread again.

But Xion was just a copy of Roxas. She lacked a heart yet was able to wield a keyblade as long as she contained enough of Sora's memories.

But Riku called her keyblade "a sham," and also said that "you can't fight fire with sparks." My best guess is that just like Xion gets her power from Roxas, Xion's keyblade works through Roxas' keyblade.

Namine is a different set of special conditions - I think Kairi's succession could be part of them, but we also know she's technically also Sora's nobody, created because Roxas already became his Nobody instead.

Uh? How is she also Sora's nobody?

I guess the real question is where is the tipping point and is that going to be another element of the story that gets explained.

I don't think it's so cut and dry. Everyone has darkness in their hearts, except for the seven princesses. The darkness comes from negative emotions, which Braig and Xehanort have in spades, but they always keep their composure. Terra and Riku keep strong lights in their hearts no matter how much darkness they let in thanks to their friendships. I think it's really just a matter of how strong your light is; if it's too weak, too much darkness will corrupt you easily.

Can some explain to me how Kairi "accidentally" performed the right of succession? All I saw was Aqua casting that spell on her. I'm sure she inherited Aqua's keyblade regardless, but I'd like to know if I'm missing something here.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep TGS 09 Trailer

Uh? How is she also Sora's nobody?

You just answered it.

Kairi is one of the princesses. She can't have darkness in her heart. If she can't have a heartless, she naturally can't have a nobody. It had to come from someone.

[Armando]

Re: Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep TGS 09 Trailer

If she can't have a heartless, she naturally can't have a nobody.

I'm not sure why you're so sure about that. As far as I can tell the only requirement for having a Nobody is losing your heart; you may or may not make a Heartless in the process.

You could argue that Kairi shouldn't have a Nobody simply because her body didn't fade into the darkness when her heart was removed, but by that logic Roxas should've stopped existing when Sora got his body back. Roxas isn't Ven's body either since it's presumably still somewhere in Castle Oblivion. So both of them are Nobodies with no real body as far as I know, similar to how Vanitas conveniently materialized a body even though he's just supposed to be half of Ven's heart.

More so than all this Nobody business I'm more curious about all these lingering sentiments/spirits that are all the rage now.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep TGS 09 Trailer

Roxas isn't Ven's body either since it's presumably still somewhere in Castle Oblivion

Well, no one is saying it is, but that does seem to be Ven's heart in there, which became part of Sora and presumably won't have fully recovered until he's reunited with Aqua and Terra. It would explain why Roxas had feelings in 358/2 Days, but no memory. Until then, he seems to need to be part of Sora's heart.

Axel also seemed rather genuinely affected for someone without a heart, unlike Saix and all the rest, which I presume is due to his connection to both Ventus and Sora. There were other motives at play for his interest in Roxas, but I think those other two also had a lot to do with that.

[Armando]

Re: Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep TGS 09 Trailer

I'm sure it's Ven's heart, I was just pointing out that it can't be Ven's body for the sake of the "Roxas has no body" argument.

What's interesting about Roxas having Ven's heart is that you'd expect Xemnas to have Terra's and/or Eraqus's. Maybe having a heart let Roxas use a keyblade, but he still used Sora's keyblade, not Ven's (presumably because of having Sora's memories.) So what about Xemnas? If I remember right in Final Mix he talks to Aqua's armor and calls it "old friend," and there's this whole Chamber of Awakening business. If Xemnas did have a heart, why couldn't he use a keyblade? If he didn't end up with a heart, why didn't he?

[Icemage]

Re: Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep TGS 09 Trailer

Are we really disputing continuity in a JRPG?

In other news, I finished off the last of KH:BBS several weeks ago (including both secret bosses). Mission accomplished, now if only Nomura would stop dicking around and finish FF13Vs so we can get KH3 under way instead of these so-so spin-offs.


Icemage

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep TGS 09 Trailer

In other news, I finished off the last of KH:BBS several weeks ago (including both secret bosses). Mission accomplished, now if only Nomura would stop dicking around and finish FF13Vs so we can get KH3 under way instead of these so-so spin-offs.


Icemage

I don't know why people continue to write-off the handheld installments when they tend to have actual gameplay or real RPG elements to them. Does being a dumbass button masher on consoles somehow make it more "legit?" I'm practically ashamed to admit finished KH and KH2 only for story - there were THAT bad as games.

Those two games are the only times I've played a game for story, I'd rather not encourage such shoddy game design again. I suffered through it only because I like weird crossovers. If it didn't have that going for it, I probably wouldn't have played them at all.

If anything, I hope and pray KH3 follows the combat system of BBS along with the combat upgrade and Synth System of 358/2 Days. These were all elements that were vastly better than Sora's painfully linear growth. The synth stuff in KH and KH2 was absolute garbage.

[Icemage]

Re: Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep TGS 09 Trailer

I didn't find the gameplay in KH1 or KH2 to be bad at all, aside from a few quirks (horribly long intro tutorial sections, incessant grinding for materials, and inexplicable/unreliable/borderline useless shadow form in KH2). I do like the more strategic combat in BBS much better, however.

As for story, that's WHY I want a KH3 instead of a spin-off. I thought that would have been obvious?


Icemage

[Armando]

Re: Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep TGS 09 Trailer

inexplicable/unreliable/borderline useless shadow form in KH2

It's supposed to suck.

As for story, that's WHY I want a KH3 instead of a spin-off. I thought that would have been obvious?

I want KH3 as bad as anyone else but I don't think there was a whole lot of plot to expand to at the end of KH2. By doing a prequel they added loose ends that could be addressed in KH3.

'Sides I don't know about you but I much preferred the pacing of BBS than KH2. KH2 was long as fuck because the worlds took long to finish, yet the real plot only happens at the very beginning, middle, and end of the game. BBS kept the worlds shorter and gave you the plot faster because of having 3 characters. Plus three times the climax. And Terra/Ventus/Aqua are much more interesting than Sora/Goofy/Donald. Sora is only ever interesting when Riku is around. And Kairi has been absurdly useless so far, which is a let down considering how awesome Aqua is.

[Gobo]

Re: Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep TGS 09 Trailer

Terra's Lingering Sentiment in 2:FM, Vanitas's Lingering Senitment and the Unknown in Bbs are all canon fights . The armor of the Master and No Heart fights in BbS:FM are not. (though No Heart himself is)

Xemnas could have used a Keyblade, he just chose not to. (See No Heart)

The only part of Namine that is Sora is the body, since Kairi could not lose her body to the Darkness when she became a Heartless (she was a heartless, but with no Darkness, she couldn't be swallowed by it like Sora). So Namine was formed from Sora's body when he stabbed himself. Roxas has no Memories of Sora because Sora was a heartless for such a sort period of time. Ven is a Heartless at the moment, but like Kairi, he can't lose his body to the darkness since he is only light. Vanitas is his Darkness and likely still exists separate of Vens heart.

Kingdom hearts, CoM, KH2, BbS and 3D are all very story important. Days and (Re: )Coded are less so

For the accidental succession between Aqua and Kairi, the ritual that Terra did with Riku is just for show. The only real requirement is for a Keyblade Master (or someone who has the qualifications, like Terra) to be holding their Keyblade while the successor grabs hold of it. Kairi grabbed Aqua's when she ran to her side when the Unversed popped up. That performed the succession between the two and formed Density's Embrace, the keyblade Aqua gets after the meeting and Kairi uses in KH2. Sora had to basically prove himself to be on the level of Ven after he lost the kingdom key to a real keyblade wielder. "I don't need a weapon. My friends are my power." "My friends are my power and I'm theirs!" Sora showed he had a heart like Ventus's and boom, keyblade is Sora's again (2 keyblade wielders Hearts>1). Since Sora no longer needed Ven's power to use the keyblade, he can still use it after Roxas is born and takes Ven's heart.

Anti-form is a punishment for abusing Valor/Wisdom/Limit (only with 2 pt members, can't go anti while solo/with1 pt member)/Master Forms. It is a representation of when Sora was a heartless.

[Armando]

Re: Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep TGS 09 Trailer

Terra's Lingering Sentiment in 2:FM, Vanitas's Lingering Senitment and the Unknown in Bbs are all canon fights . The armor of the Master and No Heart fights in BbS:FM are not. (though No Heart himself is)

I'm curious, what's the source for this? Was there an interview?

Xemnas could have used a Keyblade, he just chose not to. (See No Heart)

But that's just it. If he could've, why didn't he? The Organization needed a keyblade to collect hearts. If Xemnas could do it, why would he need Roxas (or anyone else for that matter?)

Kairi grabbed Aqua's when she ran to her side when the Unversed popped up.

Ah, I hadn't noticed. That clears it up.

[Gobo]

Re: Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep TGS 09 Trailer

I'm curious, what's the source for this? Was there an interview?

Yes.

Terra's has to do with what he says.

"Aqua, Ven. Keyblade. You are not the one I chose. Xe-han-ort? Xehanort?! Xehanort!!" Also he is in the keyblade graveyard, where he has been for 11 years.

Unknown canon interview (i'll try to find a translation)

FF-Reunion � Blog Archive � KHBbS：電撃PS・野村氏インタビュー、北米版声優・追加要素など

Armor of the Master and No Heart are not cannon

The staff originally said that they wanted to make No Heart and Armour of the Master opponents with cutscenes like the Mystery Man, but it was rejected in order to not take away from the consistency of the plot. Their strength and abilities are the same as the real ones, but the two in armor are handled entirely as revived data, and exist separately from the original plot.

Birth by Sleep Final Mix Interview Details : HEARTSTATION.ORG

But that's just it. If he could've, why didn't he? The Organization needed a keyblade to collect hearts. If Xemnas could do it, why would he need Roxas (or anyone else for that matter?)

From BbS Ultimania

-- Roxas, the "Sora + Ventus" Nobody, was able to use a Keyblade. In contrast Xemnas, the "Terra + Master Xehanort" Nobody, wasn't able to use a Keyblade. Why is this?

Nomura: I'd rather that point remain a mystery. It's possible that he intentionally wasn't using one.

There is nothing more than that revealed.

Ah, I hadn't noticed. That clears it up.

np


EDIT: In not plot related news, Vanitas's Lingering Sentiment is soooo easy on Ventus. Tornadox2+1 hit=win. Its just getting that first Tornado in that is tricky.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep TGS 09 Trailer

How are these lingering sentiments accessed? A different playthrough or Critical Mode?

[Icemage]

Re: Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep TGS 09 Trailer

How are these lingering sentiments accessed? A different playthrough or Critical Mode?

Get access to the Final Episode and a wormhole will appear in the correct place (Keyblade Graveyard/Badlands for Vanitas, and after beating him you unlock Land of Departure/Summit? for Mysterious Figure).

Can be done on any difficulty as far as I know. Be prepared to die a lot against Mysterious Figure, he takes quite a bit of getting used to.


Icemage

[Gobo]

Re: Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep TGS 09 Trailer

Beat the final mission and save the clear data. Vanitas's Lingering Sentiment will be available in the Keyblade Graveyard: Badlands in all 3 characters files. There will be an Absent Silhouette of the keychain of Void Gear. Pick "It is a danger I am willing to face" and that fight will start. He only has 1 HP bar, but attacks ruthlessly and retains all his abilities, both X-blade and normal, plus a few more. Cure spells should not be used as he will just copy that. If all else fails, use the fact he always tries to take the shortest path between you and him.

The Unknown/Mystery Man whatever you want to call it, is unlocked in all 3 stories after 1 character defeats VLS. The Land of Departure will gain a level 13 battle level. Just enter the Land of Departure to start the fight. Curaga is fine to use in this fight, and more than 1 may be useful as this guy is a cheap bastard.