Proof SE dumbed down FF13 - Get your nerd rage on!

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Proof SE dumbed down FF13 - Get your nerd rage on!

Ya, I'll still buy it and for both systems too. I'm a FF fangirl but I'm not a fangirl of either system. I never expect a game to have/be what they say for the years before its released. I've been around too long and seen too many changes to know that banking on something can lead to heartbreak. lol

[Malacite]

Re: Proof SE dumbed down FF13 - Get your nerd rage on!

but! at the same time, SE could of also left the PS3 version alone, and just "tweaked" the 360 version, there really was no reason to change it, and I Hate their "equality" excuse they use all the time.

No they couldn't, because if they did this that would be a breach of their contract with Microsoft and would lead to a lawsuit. Now I'm beginning to wonder if 14 is going to look as good as it really can or not (probably not), since they want a 360 version out as soon as they can work out the XBL issues. It's aggravating seeing potential being squandered. Oh yeah while I'm on the subject, just remember that even though ti didn't do as well as it should, VC in all it's glory was at least one of the few titles that only the PS3 could handle. VC2 doesn't count so don't even bother, SEGA had to make all kinds of sacrifices to make it work for PSP so it's not the same at all (though I still intend to rent it because I VC, even if they are somewhat contradicting the ending) SEGA took the risk, and while it might not have paid off as well as it could have, I'm glad they did it. So up yours SE. What happened to Wada saying you guys can't wait to push the PS3 to it's limits, hmm?

Developers not taking advantage of the PS3's ridiculous specs, 360's 3rd core (so far all 360 games only use 2 of the 3 cores, idk why but that's how it is) not to mention most games barely benefit from being installed, and then all the gimmicky Wii games. Actually, I wonder if it would be at all possible for Nintendo to put out an update that would allow older games to work with Wii Motion Plus the way older PS3 games like Resistance were modified to use the DS3's rumble feature.

I mean I gotta tell you, I didn't notice it much before, but I'm really starting to notice how bad the lag on the Wii mote really is.

[Feba]

Re: Proof SE dumbed down FF13 - Get your nerd rage on!

Again, you're assuming that the PS3 version didn't need to be changed too.

Plenty of games have lost quality, features, content, etc. during development, port or no. It's perfectly reasonable to think that there was something that caused the PS3 to chug unacceptably, which warranted turning down the graphics. Hell, it could just be that they ran out of space on Blu-Ray.

And worrying about the graphics on a battleship is like caring about your mother's appearance. Yes, but no, god no. It's going to either look old soon enough anyway, or it's going to get a graphical update eventually. Technical beauty is the last thing you look at in an MMO. MMOs need to be able to survive for at least a generation on their art-style alone.

[Malacite]

Re: Proof SE dumbed down FF13 - Get your nerd rage on!

Plenty of games have lost quality, features, content, etc. during development, port or no. It's perfectly reasonable to think that there was something that caused the PS3 to chug unacceptably, which warranted turning down the graphics. Hell, it could just be that they ran out of space on Blu-Ray.

So far MGS4 has been the only PS3 game to run out of space lol. Kojima said they had to cut some cool stuff they wanted to add, but game still turned out amazing and the quality of the product wasn't compromised at all. Actually, in just about every case of multi-platform games, it is 1st designed on on the 360 and then tweaked for the PS3 after.

A lot of devs claim the PS3 is harder to work for, but Insomniac and a few others say it's the other way around; that the PS3 is actually very easy to use and that most developers are just too damn lazy to figure out how beastly it really is.


ROFL @ that analogy though man, thanks ^^ I honestly needed a bit of cheering up and that did it. From what I've seen of XIV so far, it's looking very, very good and Tanaka says it's only going to get better. Now, Tanaka's record isn't so great either, but I'm willing to trust him a lot more than Kitase.

The difference in 13's case is markedly noticeable; in one shot we can no longer see the individual strands of Lightning's hair, and the colors have taken a hit too. Hell, they even took out or replaced some graphical models entirely! I know for most people this won't bother them and it terms of enjoying the game, it really shouldn't I suppose.

But it bothers me. A lot. For quite a while I wanted to be a CG Artist, and I'd still like to try my hand at it even though I've found a different career. I've worked briefly with some 3D apps and done a lot of stuff in things like Photoshop and Flash etc etc. I have a very high appreciation for high production values.

Do ub3r l337 graphix make a good RPG? Now, conventional wisdom dictates that it's gameplay and the story. This is largely true, however as Square-Enix themselves have stated, (I'm fairly certain it was them, I'll have to dig for the quotes but I think it was at IGN and in specific reference to FF13) great graphics do help tell a story better. One thing they mentioned in that article was how the PS3 was going to allow them to give far greater detail to weapons than ever before.

Even with the PS2 they still had to limit the details as much as possible. However, at the time when it came out I thought FF10 was the most beautiful game ever. In fact I still maintain it's one of the best looking PS2 games, next to XI & God of War 2.

And before that I always used to drool @ the CGI cinematics in FF's 7, 8 and 9. This is one thing that's kept me attracted to SE and FF for so long; they are always trying to outdo themselves in their production values (this doesn't just mean the visuals but that's the subject at hand) with each new iteration. Even X-2, for the piece of crap it was, had one hell of an intro and some nice cinematics & music further in.

I dunno, I looked over those photos again and seriously, that's a pretty big drop in quality. I'm grateful that 13 versus is still an exclusive and will likely be the real gem to show off, but that doesn't change the fact we were all lied to by SE. Lower production value, delayed release, and no NA demo with the advent children Blu-Ray. Yeah, the Japanese don't get too many perks (Though we're getting them back with 14 so HAH!)


I often love to wonder about how some of my old favorites would look remade with today's consoles. I just want to say up front; STFU to everyone labeling me a fan-boy or a graphics whore. You're talking with someone who's favorite games to this date include 8-bit graphics and cheap techo music, and who has owned almost every major console and handheld released at one point or another.

But some of the old classics could probably be remade and remastered and still sell very well, even though we all know they end; I mean for Christ sake look at Star Wars; if George Lucas can remaster the original 3 movies so many times and still get them to sell, you can't tell me some older games that were major hits couldn't be redone.

Final Fantasy 6 in particular comes to mind. Specifically the Opera House scene. That lone would be worth it, to have it done with HD Video & Audio. No more synthesized voices and music, but real recordings of a live orchestra. Plus how cool would Magitek, The Espers and Terra in her transformed state look? I remember being blown away by the Anthology's short CGI intros for 5 & 6. I'd never pictured before that that was how Kefka or any of the other characters really looked.

I mean yeah there was Amano's illustrations and you could put a vague idea in your head from the sprites, but it's just not the same.

OK it's super late and I'm only writing this because lately I've been suffering from insomnia so I'm out.

[Feba]

Re: Proof SE dumbed down FF13 - Get your nerd rage on!

Kojima said they had to cut some cool stuff they wanted to add, but game still turned out amazing and the quality of the product wasn't compromised at all.

contradiction machine gogo.

If things were removed, THE QUALITY OF THE PRODUCT WAS COMPROMISED BY YOUR STANDARDS.

Either A: Things can be scaled back without compromising product quality, or B: Any backwards progress, however minor, is compromising quality.

You have chosen B in your grading of FF13. You can't go back and say "oh, but I love MGS4, so that's ok" just because you have the advantage of retrospect in MGS4's case, and only foresight for FF13.

[Balfree]

Re: Proof SE dumbed down FF13 - Get your nerd rage on!

FFVI is good.

[Mhurron]

Re: Proof SE dumbed down FF13 - Get your nerd rage on!

TO EVERYONE: Keep the insults to yourself. If you don't like the topic don't post in it but stop insulting people. A good rousing discussion is fine but don't cross the line.

The whole point of the thread is to throw insults, Mal was just hoping that they would be lobbed at someone who isn't here or groups that aren't people.

If he doesn't want to be called an idiot for posting idiotic things he should stop posting them.

[Feba]

Re: Proof SE dumbed down FF13 - Get your nerd rage on!

good morning mhurron


do you drink coffee, or is belittling everyone inferior to yourself enough to get you going in the morning?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Proof SE dumbed down FF13 - Get your nerd rage on!

Even the links themselves come from SDF sites and fan blogs, all bearing the SDF mentality. Sony fanboys basically are now where GameCube fanboys were last generation - they laugh maniacally and steeple their fingers when they have an exclusive and cry when they don't.

Exclusivity died this generation because of a tough economy and high production costs, even with the former straightening out (or so politicians wish us to believe, while jobs are still being lost and companies still shutting down plants), production costs still remain high for games. If SE has played their cards right, then they get to expand their audience into a new market. Market expansion has kind of been a recurring theme for them the last few years.

Squaresoft is no more because of many bad decisions they made when they were beholden to Sony. You know, that film they made that Sony didn't really push advertising dollars for or that MMORPG they backed out on, then fucked over again with a slim console model and a PS3 that removed backward compatibility. Oh, then Sony never got the guy back who helped them make FFXI compatible to PS3, so they can't make a port to current models.

SE is much healthier today not only because of the merger, but because of the games they are able to make for DS, PSP, Wii, PC and the games they've published for others on PS3 and 360.

[Ketaru]

Re: Proof SE dumbed down FF13 - Get your nerd rage on!

How is the new KH? I'm debating renting it, but idk if I should try CoM on the PS2 first.

358/2 Days? It's hot. Kingdom Hearts on the train ride home. Everything is customizable right down to what level you are at any given time. There are a total of 19 playable characters in the Mission Mode. And unlike Kingdom Hearts II, it was actually difficult!

CoM on PS2 is Ok. It's pretty to see the cutscenes. But honestly, gameplay-wise, it does nothing to improve upon the original GBA version other than beefing up the difficulty of some bosses, and 2 new boss battles. But it isn't any more fun than the original GBA version. Got to remember that the game was essentially supplemental material to another game in Japan, so they weren't actually all that invested in making it really good, which is a shame since it's sold as its own game in the US.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Proof SE dumbed down FF13 - Get your nerd rage on!

CoM on PS2 is Ok. It's pretty to see the cutscenes. But honestly, gameplay-wise, it does nothing to improve upon the original GBA version other than beefing up the difficulty of some bosses, and 2 new boss battles. But it isn't any more fun than the original GBA version. Got to remember that the game was essentially supplemental material to another game in Japan, so they weren't actually all that invested in making it really good, which is a shame since it's sold as its own game in the US.

Its hardly supplemental material after you have to use four other games to explain what happened in one. CoM went from being an alleged footnote to a rather important detail.

[Mhurron]

Re: Proof SE dumbed down FF13 - Get your nerd rage on!

good morning mhurron


do you drink coffee, or is belittling everyone inferior to yourself enough to get you going in the morning?

Na, I totally need coffee in the morning; I just wanted to be nice and give Mal what he was asking for.

[Gobo]

Re: Proof SE dumbed down FF13 - Get your nerd rage on!

Its hardly supplemental material after you have to use four other games to explain what happened in one. CoM went from being an alleged footnote to a rather important detail.

He means it came with Kingdom Hearts 2: Final Mix+ for no extra cost. It was purely bonus material in Japan. And very enjoyable material to boot.

On topic. Eh, for all we know those early screens were the Crystal Tools engine running off their PCs. So while they were in game rendered screens, they still weren't on any system. Things get lost in translation, the truth is never fully told and they don't really owe us an explanation if they don't feel like giving one. So either use a straw or a washcloth, the milks been spilled.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Proof SE dumbed down FF13 - Get your nerd rage on!

Final Fantasy 6 in particular comes to mind. Specifically the Opera House scene. That lone would be worth it, to have it done with HD Video & Audio. No more synthesized voices and music, but real recordings of a live orchestra. Plus how cool would Magitek, The Espers and Terra in her transformed state look? I remember being blown away by the Anthology's short CGI intros for 5 & 6. I'd never pictured before that that was how Kefka or any of the other characters really looked.

I don' t think even FFVI has to or needs to be remade on such a level. Maybe on FFIV DS's level, but that's about as far as I'd go with it. Even if Dissidia's picks for Terra and Kefka were solid, I prefer any touch ups to such a classic remain minimal at best.

I don't need any other reason to justify that other than all the holes that Kitase added to Final Fanatasy VII from outside of it, which are legion. FFVI was and is still a perfect game, FFVII is not.

[Ketaru]

Re: Proof SE dumbed down FF13 - Get your nerd rage on!

Its hardly supplemental material after you have to use four other games to explain what happened in one. CoM went from being an alleged footnote to a rather important detail.

I meant supplemental material in that it came as essentially an extra for Kingdom Hearts II: Final Mix+. It really is a rather cheap effort when compared to the rest of the other games. Of course CoM itself was important, but we knew that already when the GBA version was released. Especially when all the people that didn't play it were suddenly scratching their heads about just was going on at the beginning of Kingdom Hearts II.