Proof SE dumbed down FF13 - Get your nerd rage on!

[Malacite]

Gamers blame Xbox 360 for Final Fantasy XIII visual downgrade - GAMER.BLORGE

There is a bit of controversy over some comparison shots of Final Fantasy XIII from the previous build and the new build, which was distributed by Square Enix two months ago. There is an apparent downgrade in graphics on the new build and many gamers are blaming the Xbox 360 version of the game. Things exploded globally over the Web earlier this week over comparison shots of the 2008 demo build with the recently released demo build from June 2009. Things started heating up over in Japan as multiple sites picked up the news with many gamers blaming the development of the Xbox 360 version as to the cause of the downgrade. The U.S. media then picked up the story and started reporting it.
As many of you already know when it comes to Final Fantasy XIII, I can be pretty bullish about how its being developed and how it will be delivered into my grubby hands. Early on in January, I blamed Microsoft and Square Enix for pushing back the release of Final Fantasy XIII after a hasty decision to add the Xbox 360 development to the production schedule.
Then confirmation really came in May that the Xbox 360 development truly is hampering the western release of the game. Yoshinori Kitase FFXIII producer revealed that the PS3 version is going through final polishing and main development has completed. He also revealed that Xbox 360 development hasn’t even started besides the basic engine modifications. Blaming localization was completely thrown out the window when Kitase also revealed that English voices are being recorded in conjunction with Japanese vocals.
Now multiple things are coming to light which could imply that the development on the Xbox 360 is having some adverse affects on the PS3 version. Kitase indicated that the team will make sure that the PS3 and Xbox 360 is as identical as possible. There seems to be some texture downgrades from the build on the Japanese Advent Children Blu-ray disc, which was released at the DKΣ3713 event in Japan August 2008 and from the new demo sent out in the international version of Advent Children DVD disc in June of 2009.

View all of the Comparison Shots here

Looking at the comparison shots, I have to agree with Kotaku there is a bit of change in textures from both versions. The visuals around the costumes and environments are not as sharp and detailed in the new build. There are also fewer polygons in the new build which is evident from the jaggy shoulders.
As I have stated previously, I could care less about what platform FFXIII lands on whether it be Xbox 360 or PC/Mac. However, I do care about games taking half a decade to complete and visual downgrades. Square Enix should let each version run at whatever capacity on each console and release the game as it finishes.
Since I have in my hands a copy of the original Japanese Advent Children Blu-ray disc with the FFXIII demo released at the DKΣ3713 event back in 2008, I should easily be able to do some comparison when either the Japanese retail version or international demo gets released. I have been playing the FFXIII demo lately and the graphics are stunning and it would be a shame if it were to be downgraded.

So there you have it. Not only did SE delay the game, they purposely lowered the quality so that the two would be near identical regardless of system. I FUCKING CALLED IT. God damn you SE.


Now, I've heard allegations that the 360 version has actually been crashing because it's on DVD vs Blu-Ray but that's just speculation atm; I'm trying to find proof of this right now but for the time being, there's all the visual proof you need showing the reduced quality of the game's visuals, and lord knows what else.

EDIT: More links for confirmation;

PS3center.net - Story: FFXIII PS3 HAS Been Adversely Affected By 360

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Proof SE dumbed down FF13 - Get your nerd rage on!

Butthurt topic is butthurt.

I do not support Sony fanboy butthurt nerd rage.

Blame Sony and MS for the high production costs of this generation, not SE or any other company for making sensible business choices with their games.

[hexx]

Re: Proof SE dumbed down FF13 - Get your nerd rage on!

Malacite, I share the same sentiment as your sig.

[Malacite]

Re: Proof SE dumbed down FF13 - Get your nerd rage on!

It's entirely SE's fault.

Remember, Final Fantasy has a much larger install base outside of Japan. The U.S. alone has a higher rate of sales for FF than Japan (DQ is the more popular series in Japan)

SE wanted more money, plain and simple. Odds are it would have been slow at first but a huge exclusive like this would have driven up PS3 sales for sure. It's too bad the price drop of the PS3 wasn't announced before SE made the deal with M$. God damn it I hate it when quality gets sacrificed like this, regardless of system (I have all 3 consoles and both hand helds). I for one, refuse to buy 13 now. I'll rent it and be done with it. Might buy 13 versus since it's still PS3 exclusive.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Proof SE dumbed down FF13 - Get your nerd rage on!

Having all consoles and handhelds does not put you above bias.

You are throwing the standard Sony fanboy tantrum.

(1) You blame SE and not Sony for it not being exclusive
(2) You swear to boycott it.

The only thing you're not doing is insisting SE should remain "loyal" to Sony, which is typically the third symptom and you're not mad that 360 owners will get to enjoy FFXIII, which would be the final symptom of the Sony Defense Force.

But then, that's because you know full and well SE has no reason to be loyal or hold exclusivity with Sony. You know that FFXI was a huge investment that Sony backed out of supporting, which was one of the factors that sparked their multiplatform approach. Then Sony pushes production costs sky-high, further reinforcing the need to go multi-platform to break even and eventually profit on the product.

I guess Valkyria Chronicles wasn't enough for you to see putting any RPG on PS3 is a risk right now.

[Tickmeoff]

Re: Proof SE dumbed down FF13 - Get your nerd rage on!

OH MY GOD SE NERFED THE GRAPHICS. GRAPHICS ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE GAME FUCK HOW CAN I EVEN PLAY IT NOW. HOW DARE SE MAKE SENSIBLE BUSINESS DECISIONS AS IF THEY ARE SOME COMPANY WHOSE GOAL IS TO MAXIMIZE PROFIT FROM SELLING THEIR PRODUCTS.


Whatever. Eat a dick.

[Malacite]

Re: Proof SE dumbed down FF13 - Get your nerd rage on!

Having all consoles and handhelds does not put you above bias.

You are throwing the standard Sony fanboy tantrum.

(1) You blame SE and not Sony for it not being exclusive
(2) You swear to boycott it.

The only thing you're not doing is insisting SE should remain "loyal" to Sony, which is typically the third symptom and you're not mad that 360 owners will get to enjoy FFXIII, which would be the final symptom of the Sony Defense Force.

But then, that's because you know full and well SE has no reason to be loyal or hold exclusivity with Sony. You know that FFXI was a huge investment that Sony backed out of supporting, which was one of the factors that sparked their multiplatform approach. Then Sony pushes production costs sky-high, further reinforcing the need to go multi-platform to break even and eventually profit on the product.

I guess Valkyria Chronicles wasn't enough for you to see putting any RPG on PS3 is a risk right now.

Time to poke some holes in your logic.

#1) It IS SE's fault. They were unwilling to take the risk, and thus lowered the quality of their product in order to reach a wider audience. From a financial standpoint this makes perfect sense, but it also enrages some consumers (myself among them) It honestly comes across to me that SE doesn't have enough faith in their own product's ability to push sales, and they justify this by using the PS3's install base as a scapegoat.

#2) It would have been entirely different had it been a joint-project from the start up. I'm tired of playing games on my PS3 that I can also play on my 360 when I know the PS3 is more capable. However, as I said, if 13 had been planned for both consoles right away then we'd only be left to wonder what would happen if it were exclusive.

Instead we got just the opposite; It was originally exclusive and has been gutted a bit in order to appease the masses. It's not like there hasn't ever been games so good they push console sales. FFX did a pretty good job of that, as did MGS2, and virtually any Mario or especially GTA game. Hell I know people who got a 360 just for HD Madden games.

I am not a Sony fanboy. I am protesting in the name of quality games. If it were the other way around (360 having the better hardware) my position would remain the same. But again, I'm tired of not seeing titles that can take advantage of what the PS3 can do; I'd like to see the damn thing actually start doing what I paid for, and it's asinine developments like this that keep preventing it.



#3) Sony backed out on the HDD for legitimate reasons. They were (rightly) concerned about piracy issues and so a lot of features were cut back and the damn thing was eventually cut out entirely. Remember, Japan has 1 of the lowest crime rates world.Japanese players for example, had the leisure of installing big games like Xenosaga and were able to play it without the disc, as well as access extra bonus features. FFX also had some features like this though I don't recall what they were other than disc-less play.


#4) Valkyria is not final fantasy. It is not a well-established, highly popular franchise that can guarantee at least some sales based solely on it's name. Nor is it a full-blown RPG; It's a strategy RPG, which isn't exactly the most popular genre. Remember FF Tactics? It was a blunder at first, but eventually word started to spread after it was discontinued that it was a real gem, and so SE reprinted it years later.

You can't compare the two.

[hexx]

Re: Proof SE dumbed down FF13 - Get your nerd rage on!

Time to poke some holes in your logic.

#1) It IS SE's fault. They were unwilling to take the risk, and thus lowered the quality of their product in order to reach a wider audience. From a financial standpoint this makes perfect sense, but it also enrages some consumers (myself among them) It honestly comes across to me that SE doesn't have enough faith in their own product's ability to push sales, and they justify this by using the PS3's install base as a scapegoat.

#2) It would have been entirely different had it been a joint-project from the start up. I'm tired of playing games on my PS3 that I can also play on my 360 when I know the PS3 is more capable. However, as I said, if 13 had been planned for both consoles right away then we'd only be left to wonder what would happen if it were exclusive.

Instead we got just the opposite; It was originally exclusive and has been gutted a bit in order to appease the masses. It's not like there hasn't ever been games so good they push console sales. FFX did a pretty good job of that, as did MGS2, and virtually any Mario or especially GTA game. Hell I know people who got a 360 just for HD Madden games.

I am not a Sony fanboy. I am protesting in the name of quality games. If it were the other way around (360 having the better hardware) my position would remain the same. But again, I'm tired of not seeing titles that can take advantage of what the PS3 can do; I'd like to see the damn thing actually start doing what I paid for, and it's asinine developments like this that keep preventing it.



#3) Sony backed out on the HDD for legitimate reasons. They were (rightly) concerned about piracy issues and so a lot of features were cut back and the damn thing was eventually cut out entirely. Remember, Japan has 1 of the lowest crime rates world.Japanese players for example, had the leisure of installing big games like Xenosaga and were able to play it without the disc, as well as access extra bonus features. FFX also had some features like this though I don't recall what they were other than disc-less play.


#4) Valkyria is not final fantasy. It is not a well-established, highly popular franchise that can guarantee at least some sales based solely on it's name. Nor is it a full-blown RPG; It's a strategy RPG, which isn't exactly the most popular genre. Remember FF Tactics? It was a blunder at first, but eventually word started to spread after it was discontinued that it was a real gem, and so SE reprinted it years later.

You can't compare the two.

My turn to poke holes in your logic as well Mr. Fanboy.

1. No it's not SE's fault, because as any business man will tell you, the risks cannot outweigh the profits associated with said risk. Sure it will piss off a few customer's, but at the same time, unless said customer's are a sizable amount, all you (and other fanboys) are doing is blowing steam. Lets face it, when push comes to shove, you will STILL buy the game.

2. I'm sorry sir, but not EVERYONE can afford both consoles, and some decided to run with the 360 (seeing as to how it came out first) than the PS3 (which also came with a heftier price tag). To be honest, I for one dont care for exclusives, and prefer when a game is multi-plat because then console companies have to really bust their balls to give me something that will make me want to buy said game for said platform. Ill give you an example, Batman Arkham Asylum, PS3 players get access to exclusive DLC which allows you to play as The Joker as well, which in turn pretty much sold the game to me. Does it look better on the PS3? I dont think so, but the DLC is what hooked me.

3. SE invested a lot of time and money into FFXI, only to have Sony back out and let them fall flat. No matter what the excuse is really, Sony approached SE about a FF MMO, they got it, and yet still decided to turn around and screw SE. If I was head honcho of SE trust me, I'd be pissed at that and would turn around and rid Sony of anymore SE exclusives (which they did heh heh). Can't blame SE for feeling jipped in that scenario.

[Malacite]

Re: Proof SE dumbed down FF13 - Get your nerd rage on!

Forgot to mention;

Kitase: Xbox 360 FFXIII will not compromise PS3 version -- PlayStation Universe

Kitase promised there'd be no compromise to the PS3 version. Blatant lie on multiple fronts;

1) We've seen the graphics drop

2) The release date was pushed back

3) We never got the demo Japan did with AC


I don't much care for being lied to SE, and so blatantly.

---------- Post added at 06:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:49 PM ----------

2. I'm sorry sir, but not EVERYONE can afford both consoles, and some decided to run with the 360 (seeing as to how it came out first) than the PS3 (which also came with a heftier price tag). To be honest, I for one dont care for exclusives, and prefer when a game is multi-plat because then console companies have to really bust their balls to give me something that will make me want to buy said game for said platform. Ill give you an example, Batman Arkham Asylum, PS3 players get access to exclusive DLC which allows you to play as The Joker as well, which in turn pretty much sold the game to me. Does it look better on the PS3? I dont think so, but the DLC is what hooked me.

Suck an Egg then. Some games are exclusive, and that's how consoles get sold. Or should Mario start appearing on Xbox now? Or Master Chief on PSP? It's up to the consumer to decide which console best suits them. last gen I only had a PS2, which ended up suiting me just fine because it had all the best games. If I wanted to play Fable or Halo, I rented an xbox for a few days.

[Armando]

Re: Proof SE dumbed down FF13 - Get your nerd rage on!

They were unwilling to take the risk, and thus lowered the quality of their product in order to reach a wider audience. (...) It honestly comes across to me that SE doesn't have enough faith in their own product's ability to push sales, and they justify this by using the PS3's install base as a scapegoat.

Could be it because the quality of a game doesn't necessarily dictate its sales? Could be it be because the game they're selling isn't the only factor that decides if people will buy the console to play the game?

It's not like there hasn't ever been games so good they push console sales. FFX did a pretty good job of that, as did MGS2, and virtually any Mario or especially GTA game. Hell I know people who got a 360 just for HD Madden games.

It's not like those games had the exorbitant production costs that are required to achieve the borderline fetishistic graphical quality you're demanding. It's not like those consoles' costs and game libraries at that time are directly comparable to the PS3's game library either.

I find this whole thing distressing not just because it reaffirms the disproportionate amount of importance consumers are placing on graphics, but because Final Fantasy/Square Enix is becoming more and more synonymous in the minds of the consumers with pretty graphics instead of quality plot and gameplay.

I am protesting in the name of quality games. If it were the other way around (360 having the better hardware) my position would remain the same. But again, I'm tired of not seeing titles that can take advantage of what the PS3 can do; I'd like to see the damn thing actually start doing what I paid for, and it's asinine developments like this that keep preventing it.

It's not our fault you bought a console that was meant to be the end-all graphics whore and it turned out to be prohibitively expensive to indulge the players in such graphical fantasies. Or that the console was stupidly expensive up 'til recently. And to assert that you're protesting in the name of "quality games" is laughable since these days it's hard to make your game look ugly and graphics should always come second to good gameplay.

[Feba]

Re: Proof SE dumbed down FF13 - Get your nerd rage on!

Because games ABSOLUTELY NEVER HAVE ANY REASON TO SCALE BACK THEIR GRAPHICS before release.

It's not like pre-release photos EVER look better than the actual game, because holy shit there's no such thing as performance problems ever. There's absolutely NO WAY that SE had problems getting the higher quality graphics to run well on PS3; we all know how much Square Enix HATES having flashy special effects with tons of shit flying around on screen, so it's not like that would ever be a problem! SE keeps it nice and simple!



Jesus Fucking Space Crickets, those changes are so incredibly minor, even if they ARE due to Xbox, which there's no reason to believe they are. The release date is hardly 'compromising the PS3 version'; if you can't wait a bit longer to play a game you need to get a fucking life. Or least find some new games to play, there's a fucking mountain of awesome games out there waiting to be tried. Or replay an old one. And the PS3 version now sucks because you didn't get a fucking demo? Cry me a river, do you have any idea the issues involved with releasing another demo? All of the legal work, the publishing costs, getting the translation in (not just voice over, but any part of the interface, as well as subtitles, etc.; which isn't a small task in such a large RPG.). Not to mention SE mentioned that they'd want to do a completely different demo, which is an even larger moneysink for them.

Have you ever heard of MGS2? They had pictures of A CHARACTER EVERYONE LOVED IN SITUATIONS HE WAS NEVER INVOLVED IN. That's why a lot of people hated Raiden-- they thought they were getting Snake, but they played 4/5ths of the game as someone else, DESPITE THE GAME'S MARKETING CLEARLY HAVING PHOTOS SHOWING OTHERWISE. Or fuck, played FFXI recently? COP photos clearly showed characters in EQ above the level cap of the areas they were in.

If you can't deal with the fact that games don't always come out of pre-alpha with everything the developers wanted, you need to choose another hobby. Especially for something as minor as graphics. When they start taking sidequests and story arcs out of FFXIII JUST to fit it on Xbox, maybe you get a bit of a point, but there's absolutely no proof that the Xbox version has affected the PS3 version in any substantial way.

tl;dr:

Whatever. Eat a dick.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Proof SE dumbed down FF13 - Get your nerd rage on!

You know, Mal, you could go play Persona 4 in the meantime. It would likely take you a month to beat and that's one month you'll have to pass the time before FFXIII.

Then again, there's always New Game Plus, which SE could learn to do more often. They just do it arbitrarily. Chrono Trigger, FFX-2 and Crisis Core. Try some new stuff instead of just being whipped on Final Fantasy, there are plenty of other great RPGs coming out this month on just about every platform.

Nostalgia
Fighting Fantasy
Borderlands
Demon's Soul
Dragon Age: Origins

And there's many more coming. Last month had plenty as well, I still haven't really even gotten to the core of KH 358/2 Days or Persona PSP yet and Mario and Luigi is sitting on the shelves taunting me.

[Malacite]

Re: Proof SE dumbed down FF13 - Get your nerd rage on!

It's not like those games had the exorbitant production costs that are required to achieve the borderline fetishistic graphical quality you're demanding. It's not like those consoles' costs and game libraries at that time are directly comparable to the PS3's game library either.

I find this whole thing distressing not just because it reaffirms the disproportionate amount of importance consumers are placing on graphics, but because Final Fantasy/Square Enix is becoming more and more synonymous in the minds of the consumers with pretty graphics instead of quality plot and gameplay.

It's the principal of the matter for me more than anything, but yes I am something of a graphics whore in that I love beautiful games, but that's never the sole reason I buy one.

Plain and simple, Kitase promised no comprise to the PS3 version's quality and that's exactly what happened. It would have been an entirely different story had it been developed for the two platforms from the beginning.


Idk about playing Crisis Core, I've already done 2-3 playthroughs. I am tempted to replay Lunar again though, or maybe FF12 once I get it back from a friend. I'm taking a break from Dissidia because I'm at the point where I'm just item farming and it's not much fun anymore. I still hate the lack of online play for that game - _ -

That, and getting that super ribbon was a soul-crushing experience that me ready to break my PSP by throwing it at the wall idk how many times. I finally caved and just spammed the DC until I got the 99 transomgridusts. Inward Chaos is also pissing me off, as I keep experiencing BS and/or glitches such as the AI having zero delay between attacks or blocks which is completely unfair;

To give an example, I did a pre-emptive block as Zidane (I forget who I was upgainst, I think it may have been Garland?) and then immediately tried to rumble rush since the AI stood there for a second and then blocked as well. Now, my attack started the moment his guard came down and should have hit but I countered instead - Well WTF was that about? I also have been experience a ridiculous glitch lately where I will launch an enemy after a Rumble Rush or Aerial Swift Attack/Tempest and then when I use Meo Twister, Zidane flies all over the arena and the enemy somehow just magically escapes the attack right before they would take HP damage - Again, WHAT THE FUCK?! And I have the replays saved if you don't believe me.

How is the new KH? I'm debating renting it, but idk if I should try CoM on the PS2 first.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Proof SE dumbed down FF13 - Get your nerd rage on!

TO EVERYONE: Keep the insults to yourself. If you don't like the topic don't post in it but stop insulting people. A good rousing discussion is fine but don't cross the line.

___________________________________

While I understand the business side of doing things a certain way to save money and maximize profit, as a gamer, I can certainly understand being a little ticked off that one version is being held back by the other.

[Kailea]

Re: Proof SE dumbed down FF13 - Get your nerd rage on!

I love... and yet hate fan boy wars... could we please stop throwing the word around because its really annoying.

I see it from both sides, because as always I like looking at both ends of the rod before I start shoving it places......

SE wanted MAX sells in US, only way to do that would be to release it on both systems, because the 360 has a bigger base then PS3 right now.
but! at the same time, SE could of also left the PS3 version alone, and just "tweaked" the 360 version, there really was no reason to change it, and I Hate their "equality" excuse they use all the time.

Now on this same note, everyone can bitch and moan, and boycott and cry and keep shoving that stick as far as they can.......
but in the end, whats going to happen? Those same people will still buy the game, still enjoy its good looks/story, and then start humping air when they hear about FFXV.

Its silly that FFXIII got downgraded a tad, but some people are blowing it way out of proportion.