Which did you like better: FFVIII or FFIX?

[Ketaru]

Re: Which did you like better: FFVIII or FFIX?

I thought the Junction System was pretty cool and somewhat easy to understand, although if your referring to *DRAW* system, yeah that can get a bit old *especially if your trying to gain 100 Ultima's from the 6 mobs in the game that has it .

Not to mention I actually used a lot of physical skills in the game and the use of GFs to speed up their casting times, which is why I normally didn't bother with magic unless it was against a physical resistance mob.

I do feel your pain though.

It's not so much the Junctioning stats to customize your character that annoyed me about the magic system. It's that if you actually wanted to, you know, use magic, it made you feel guilty for doing because you know you're losing out on stats, you know you'll have to find a way to replenish it later. And who wants to feel guilty using magic?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Which did you like better: FFVIII or FFIX?

Grizzlebeard just pointed this out about IX, but I'm glad that FFX and FFXII got away from it almost entirely - I hate arbitrary sections of RPGs where your party is forced to split. It worked incredibly well in FFVI because those scenarios were planned-out and you tended to enlist old or new (useful) help along the way.

FFX had a tiny section where Tidus, Wakka and Yuna get split off from the party. That works because they're pretty much the characters I started out with anyway. The design of FFX encouraged you to use all your characters for the most part (though Khimari got the short end there, little incentive to swap him in aside from using Lancet).

FFXII no one really left the party once they joined save for Guest characters. I like that.

I do really wish SE would move the fuck away from the three character party back to a setup of four or five. We have the graphics these days to have these nice-looking characters and still do that. I don't know why they think I can't handle more than three, but so long as I can swap them in and out as freely as I did in FFX and FFXII, the complaint isn't that big.

FFIX did bring back the four member party, but you often didn't want to have Vivi and Steiner in your party without each other and their combo attacks ended up being really useful, so I never used people like Eiko or Amarant. I kinda wish they had dreamed up a few ways for the characters to play off each others' skills. Its almost like they wanted to put a Chrono Trigger-ish style into the game, but stopped after two characters.

[Ketaru]

Re: Which did you like better: FFVIII or FFIX?

FFIX did bring back the four member party, but you often didn't want to have Vivi and Steiner in your party without each other and their combo attacks ended up being really useful, so I never used people like Eiko or Amarant. I kinda wish they had dreamed up a few ways for the characters to play off each others' skills. Its almost like they wanted to put a Chrono Trigger-ish style into the game, but stopped after two characters.

I don't exactly think Vivi or Steiner were not as good separately. Vivi was definitely useful. And I was a bit obsessive about Stealing all items from bosses so I would often have Zidane trying to Steal everything and Vivi using nothing but Focus and Slow. By the time I was done, Vivi would throw out some ridiculously high numbered nukes. Steiner would've been more attractive if his "Breaks" were more accurate. But for some reason, they often had a slim chance of landing. That's generally one of my complaints about the older games. There was no problem had with streamlining random battles in such a way that often enemies were easy to kill, even in one shot. But enfeebles? Often they had some low landing rates that usually translated to wasted turns. If I really liked anything about X, it's how Auron and Wakka's status attacks were pretty much guarenteed, and often even necessary given how strong some enemies were later in the game.

[Malacite]

Re: Which did you like better: FFVIII or FFIX?

Actually that was one of the aspects about IX that I loved. It forced you to maintain almost all your party members somewhat, or else you would be screwed later on when you had to use them for a story event.

It's also why I dislike RPGs with a large cast of playable characters. 5 or 6 is usually what I'm comfortable with since you'll get some variety without it being over kill. Games like Chrono Cross and Radatia Stories took it way too far.

FFVI would have crossed the line if it didn't actually make you use them all (and if most of them hadn't been so memorable =3)

To this date I still haven't beaten Osmos but I just don't care either. He's still the toughest of the secret bosses SE's ever come up with, since you just can't prevent all of his status ailments. You can block most, but not all. That and I swear I took out all his MP with Quina yet he still managed to pull off that BS death spell of his... (I have the guide and his exact HP & MP written down, he was out of MP but still cast it so WHAT, THE, FUCK!)

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Which did you like better: FFVIII or FFIX?

Actually that was one of the aspects about IX that I loved. It forced you to maintain almost all your party members somewhat, or else you would be screwed later on when you had to use them for a story event.

Forcing players to level grind themselves out of a hole by leaving you with a couple of mages and two melees on an island where magic is forbidden isn't exactly what I call great RPG design. Vivi, Quina - keep tossing potions on the melee until we all die. No, Quina, don't drink them all and don't eat the Phoenix Downs, you freak.

[Malacite]

Re: Which did you like better: FFVIII or FFIX?

Maybe, but it is nice that every character served a purpose rather than just being another option for main group.

Leveling in FF9 doesn't take all that long anyway with the right skills.

[Lunaryn]

Re: Which did you like better: FFVIII or FFIX?

I came in in the SNES era, as far as which side of the broken base I'm on. The 8 vs 9 comparison in particular isn't one I have the strongest feelings on, overall.

8 was very much an experiment stylistically and in terms of gameplay. The most common criticism leveled at it is that it's not a Final Fantasy story or setting, more of a sci-fi RPG with FF branding. Incidentally, FF7 typically got this criticism until FF8 came out and people started noticing how comparitively more FF-like aspects of FF7's story were relative to FF8.

9 was OTOH a rather desperate-seeming attempt to recapture the magic of the pre-PSX games, and came off feeling thematically right, but a bit stale, as if Square was afraid to cover any new ground for fear of upsetting classic FF fans. 10 actually struck me as a slightly more successful attempt to do what they were aiming for with 9, in part by not trying to hew quite as closely to FF norms as 9 did.

Both 8 and 9 showed a definite improvement in story presentation and flow, the games started feeling a lot more cohesive and continuous than their predecessors. However, this improvement seemed to outstrip the quality of the story itself rather noticeably. 10 suffered similarly but not quite as badly. I came away feeling that either FF9 or FF10 would stand extremely well on their own as a first game, but were harder to appreciate from the perspective of someone who had been through all other FF stories already. FF8... had its definite good parts but on balance was something of a failed experiment.

Incidentally, FF6 was unique in managing to have established and developed characters and yet no clear hero/protagonist leading the story for the whole game. That was an interesting approach which I would like to see SE try again (especially in favor of designated protagonists who serve no other purpose than to represent the player and thus are totally ignorant of the world around them so that the other characters have to explain everything to them. Most players would remove such people from our parties if allowed to do so, and be happier with the game for the change. Well, you know, unless you make them way too awesome in gameplay to consider removing, see Suikoden II ).

Edit: Want to mitigate somewhat the criticism above; this kind of thing can be done right. FF10 is actually a decent example; Tidus could be annoying sometimes but he did actually work fairly well, in part because he actually legitimately was The Ishmael to Yuna's Chosen One for much of the story, with just enough subtlety to it to not freak out some male players who might not be happy with realizing they're playing as the hero's love interest.

[Malacite]

Re: Which did you like better: FFVIII or FFIX?

9 was OTOH a rather desperate-seeming attempt to recapture the magic of the pre-PSX games, and came off feeling thematically right, but a bit stale, as if Square was afraid to cover any new ground for fear of upsetting classic FF fans. 10 actually struck me as a slightly more successful attempt to do what they were aiming for with 9, in part by not trying to hew quite as closely to FF norms as 9 did.

What are you talking about? 9 was never meant to be anything ground breaking, it was purposely made as a tribute to the series because SE was abandoning most of the old ways with X such as the ATB. At least, that's what they claimed back at the time.

[Lunaryn]

Re: Which did you like better: FFVIII or FFIX?

What are you talking about? 9 was never meant to be anything ground breaking, it was purposely made as a tribute to the series because SE was abandoning most of the old ways with X such as the ATB. At least, that's what they claimed back at the time.

I'm not talking about gameplay there or even job/class roles, it's specifically the plot that felt stale. The quality of the presentation is quite good and carries you along fairly well for a while, but eventually you stop to take a breather, and start to realize you're not sure why you're following this. In the end I suppose it's nothing that really hurts replay value, considering, but it kind of makes the first time through start to feel disappointing.

Being honest, I can't really say that the plots to earlier works are objectively better, necessarily. FF5's plot and characterization was arguably pretty thin; the gameplay carries that work. FF6 carries one along well with a compelling story, then dumps it off a cliff after the floating continent, and leaves it to the player to pick up the pieces. I suppose the issue with FF9 is something of a disconcerting mix of newness and oldness to the story; the familiarity goes beyond nostalgia and ends up disappointing, like reading a book that at first seems only a little familiar, but by the time you're halfway into it you realize it's based so strongly on another work that you know exactly how it's going to end up.

I don't know if that's the best way to put it or even the only criticism I would have to make. Sometimes it's hard to analyze what really does or doesn't make a work tick. I can say that while going through FF9 was enjoyable, nothing in that story ever inspired me. I've built IRCRPGs around characters and concepts from FF4, FF6, and even a little bit of FF5, but I couldn't see using FF9 as even a temporary setting in a multiversal RPG. Maybe that would be different if FF9 had been one of the earlier FFs I'd encountered, but I'll never really know.

[odjnlinus]

Re: Which did you like better: FFVIII or FFIX?

I don't know if FFX was actually designed so that you had to use all your characters, I personally only used Tidus, Yuna, and Lulu. For the fights that was underwater or in the air in which you needed a ranged character to attack, I normally just overused Tidus for underwater fights and abuse Yuna and Lulu in the Air fights. I think the only time I actually actively used Wakka and the rest of them was when their sphere grid lvls hit 99 and I wasted it on str and stuff. I did have to use Kimahri for a bit when I found out he was fighting his own people in the mountain.

On the back of the FFIX case, it does clearly say it was design to bring back a classic feel for the past FF games (FF3-snes, and FF4 with a bit of FF5 and of course FF1). The abilities system they used in FFIX to learn abilities from different equipment somewhat came from FF3 (snes I don't refer to it as FF6) and a bit of FFVIII in the way obviously equiping different GFs to learn different abilities to increase, str, def, hp, and all that other good stuff. Same thing with FFIII as you equipped different Espers to learn magic spells and to gain bonuses from them. From what I can tell after playing all the FF games prior to FFIX, it pretty much adopted it's own system as far as learning different abilities are concern.

As far as the storyline in FFIX is, I guess mostly everyone else is right about it saying they brought in some newness and out of line concepts, but then again that's what a FF game is, a variety of uniqueness added with several characters to create an even more interesting event. First time I played through FFIX, I was amazed everytime someone new came into the picture or when a crazy secret about one of the characters was revealed (Kuja and Zidane being created brothers) or the story revolving around Vivi and the rest of the *black mages* saying they was created with a limited life span and afterwards they would *stop moving*.

Be right back on the last note.

[Maju]

Re: Which did you like better: FFVIII or FFIX?

It's not so much the Junctioning stats to customize your character that annoyed me about the magic system. It's that if you actually wanted to, you know, use magic, it made you feel guilty for doing because you know you're losing out on stats, you know you'll have to find a way to replenish it later. And who wants to feel guilty using magic?

This was a huge, huge turn off for me, as well. I barely used any magic in FFVIII, which speaks volumes of how bad the system was. Also, monsters surpassing bosses in power thanks to their levels rising along with the party was baaaaaaad.

[Sekighara]

Re: Which did you like better: FFVIII or FFIX?

Well the junction system wasn't that bad if you feel into the habit of drawing ever fight, and I didn't really use magic either because items were so much easier to get with the money system. By the town you walked from onw town to another you get paid. Made it very convient and I never had the want to sell anything. Plus using the abilitys of GF i can synth down the crap i collected for magic making everything loads easier.

The leveling with the party would only effect you if you grinded be it by mistake or on purpse. If you walk every where and then not usethe roads yours random incounters increase exceptionally. Which me personal I thought was a great addition because you could actually sit on the road and not worry about one two step random battles with the strongest monster possible. I like how FF9 adapted it where if you went to an area where you were not suppose to be at yet you would encounter the hardest fight possible that isn't instant death, aka Ruby dragon. The game gave good use of transportation earily on which I did like which ever other game seemed neglectful of at first and then they give it to you for story line or so late that you walked every where already. I actually fought every boss on level and bosses were the hardest thing next to heaven's island, but since everything there was dragon type and immune to every ability effect they couldn't be weak reguardless.

I would like to say the mini game in 9 were more friendly then in 8. Tetra master was alot simpler then triple triad. Shuffle boogie is the song of defeat as far as I am concerned because even if you did unstand the rules the board was only ally to the AI destroying you and taking all your cards -_-.

The music of FF8 though I remember alot more clearly then FF9. FF8 had some of my favorite battle music ever. The man with the machine gun is one of my all time favorite battle track and Under her control is a great metropolitan city track. Hunter's chance is the only song I can remember at all from 9 and that is mostly due to the hunter's chance remake by the black mages.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Which did you like better: FFVIII or FFIX?

This was a huge, huge turn off for me, as well. I barely used any magic in FFVIII, which speaks volumes of how bad the system was. Also, monsters surpassing bosses in power thanks to their levels rising along with the party was baaaaaaad.

Except that if you had any hope of beating the game, using magic was requisite. Haste, Aura, Curaga, Protect, Shell, standard -na line and Esuna.

And bosses played by the same levelling rules any other mob did aside from the "rigged" fights (early Edea, Seifer, Rajin/Fujin, Biggs/Wedge). This was why it was preferable to take on Diabolos sooner rather than later. My first run through the game I didn't even remember to use his lamp until the third disc, very ugly fight ensued . Piece of cake if you took him on soon after Cid gave you the lamp on Disc one.

The Junctioning system also wasn't that strict on how much magic you used, only the truly anal saw fit to use as little of it as possible. If you got into the habit of Drawing spells and learning how to get them and convert them to bigger, better magic the system was much better than most FFs where Ethers and Elixers must be hoarded away for boss fights and you have to run your ass to the inn or save point every time you're out of MP.

If I have 99 Firagas stocked and the enemy is weak to fire, Firaga away, I could always make more Firaga.

[Coinspinner]

Re: Which did you like better: FFVIII or FFIX?

Better to junction Firaga to Elemental Attack IMO. It was a shame you couldn't multi-target spells in that one. I never found a need for attack magic in VIII, even with "Tripel". Buffs where awesome, as usual.

From five onwards MP problems are practically nonexistent I think. Five has Job Change, Aspir, MP song, Dragon Sword and Chemists. Six has a really sick version of Osmose. Seven and nine give you a zillion MP restoring items, even spamming magic you may not run out. Maybe not as easy as refining, but w/e.

I'd really love to see Junction come back. At this point it's not like they haven't reused a system before.

[Malacite]

Re: Which did you like better: FFVIII or FFIX?

Better to junction Firaga to Elemental Attack IMO. It was a shame you couldn't multi-target spells in that one. I never found a need for attack magic in VIII, even with "Tripel". Buffs where awesome, as usual.

Yeah magic really, really blew in 8. Even Meteor with a maxed out Magic stat did crap compared to the allmighty limit breaks (Squall Zell and Irvine are just too powerful in that regard)

Magic sucked pretty hard in X too once you started getting the ultimate weapons and stat ups, especially compared to the Magus Sisters and Yojimbo.