Metroid: Other M

[DakAttack]

Re: Metroid: Other M

All you need to know is that when it comes to a game with a great backstory and rich lore history is that Team Ninja will either ignore it entirely or rape what you dearly loved. In NG's case they did both.

I prefer they stopped with the prequelitis and let her past remain somewhat mysterious. There are still events post-Fusion that they should really be looking at. Moving forward with Samus' future is long overdue.

I think the e-manga did a sufficient job of setting up her past anyway.

You couldn't seem more jaded unless you were Ryu himself.

And, you're not Ryu, because, last I checked, he had three ass-kicking, bosom-heaving chick friends on his speed dial, and you're just not that awesome.

The game does look a lot like God of War, though, it does seem it retains a little bit of that first person perspective. I was surprised to see Team Ninja collaborate, but they did collaborate with Bungie in their last iteration of Dead or Alive.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Metroid: Other M

Metroid is my favorite franchise ever.

Team Ninja rates about as low as Bethesda in my book.

How would you feel if someone came and took a shit in your Cocoa Puffs?

Tell me why I should be ecstatic with Nintendo's decision. I'm walking away from this years E3 feeling better about a 3D Castlevania than a 3D Metroid game. They had already been doing Metroid right for years. If it ain't broke, don't fix it but nooooooo, let's try to fix it anyway.

[Tickmeoff]

Re: Metroid: Other M

Looks interesting. Definitely going to be a weird direction for the series, but it can't be much worse than Prime 3 so I will give it a shot.

[Feba]

Re: Metroid: Other M

They had already been doing Metroid right for years. If it ain't broke, don't fix it but

Super Mario RPG.

Resident Evil 4.

Final Fantasy XI.

Super Mario 64. For that matter, OOT, and pretty much every game series that survived 2D to 3D.

Luigi's Mansion.

Castlevania: Symphony of the Night.

Metroid Prime.



Game series doing things new and different is not bad. It is just different. I realize change can be scary, but keep in mind that people were just as opposed to Metroid Prime when they found out that it was a first person game. Or people opposed to Wind Waker's cel-shading. And of course the above examples; they may not have been as radically opposed, but they were significant departures from their series history, which by and large people agree are great games. Some of them are even considered among the greatest games of all time.

If the entire industry took a view of "ain't broke, don't fix it", we would have a sea of fine games, which are exceedingly flawless, but there would be nothing special about them. There would be no Ico, no Shenmue, no Katamari, no Rez, no World of Goo, no progress. People would continue to make the same games that had been made, and while it would be entertaining, it wouldn't be magical. Video games would fall to much the same level that Hollywood is on. Even if you only apply it to series, they would quickly become bland and repetitive. Look at where GTA is going, or Guitar Hero, or where Viewtiful Joe went. They're not bad games, but they don't innovate, they don't adapt. They might improve on what there was, but they fall flat and burn themselves out.

Hell, look at the Beatles. They could've kept releasing things like Help!, Please Please Me, and Hard Day's Night. And they would've likely been very successful. Maybe they would've even lasted longer as a band. But nobody would remember them now if not for the albums where they started to be different-- Rubber Soul, Revolver, Sgt. Pepper's, Magical Mystery Tour, White Album, Abbey Road. They would've faded into being an old pop band that your parents listened to.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Metroid: Other M

Super Mario RPG.

Resident Evil 4.

Final Fantasy XI.

Super Mario 64. For that matter, OOT, and pretty much every game series that survived 2D to 3D.

Luigi's Mansion.

Castlevania: Symphony of the Night.

Metroid Prime.

All terrible examples.

You can't look at Mario or Final Fantasy without thinking of reinvention at the same time. Much of the time, what Mario does has a new spin each time. Mario was refereeing Tennis and Punch-Out, doing puzzle games, racing karts and battling apes before he had an RPG. Mario was the video game version of Bo Jackson - he knew it all. Mario being in an RPG came as a shock to nobody.

Final Fantasy is a clean slate with each new Roman numeral they add. There are similarities, sure, but new characters, a new world and different gameplay elements each time. FFXII Revenant Wings doesn't feel out of place with FFXII given both are played with realtime elements. One's a realtime RPG, one's an RTS RPG.

But why is it you don't accept FFVII: Dirge of Cerberus, Feba? I'll tell you - its not a RPG and it really has nothing to connect it to much of what happened in FFVII. Its just sort of there. An average shooter in FFVII's world where leveling up hardly matters and Materia is hardly even a gameplay element. Not to mention it mucks with what backstory is presented.

That's my problem with this Metroid game. The naming doesn't connect with what its named. No Metroids, constant human contact, Samus' life just as she had broken off from the Galactic Federation as a bounty hunter and a deemphasis on exploration. Don't call it Metroid, then. Call it "Chronicles of Samus Aran" or "Samus: Aran Origins.

As with "Nico" and "Trico," calling this "Metroid" fosters very specific expectations. I'd exect a Metroid game.

Want me to really accept this game? Toss out Samus, the Space Pirates, the Galactic federation and cover the original owner of the Chozo Power Suit. Cover that legendary Chozo Warrior referenced in Metroid Zero Mission. Show us how badass he was and what battles he fought before he became enshrined.

[Feba]

Re: Metroid: Other M

1- I'm referring to Mario as an indepth gaming experience, not a game where he happens to show up or have his name in the title. Games that are not focused on multiplayer, with Mario as the main or sole character.
2- Yes, FF brings big changes, but going online was a huge step, and is still extremely controversial. Just go look at any FF14 thread on a non FFXI fan site and you'll see people bitching about it being online, and that they shouldn't even include them in the numbered series.
3- Dirge of Cerberus wasn't good. I'm not saying that "oh, well, all games should always be different just because they can". I'm stating that just because a game isn't like it used to be doesn't mean it will be awful.
4- So I had, what, two examples you could think of any sort of fault with...? And all of my examples are terrible? OK.
5- Again, you're letting your own biases of what the name means interfere with your ability to enjoy the game. Look at my examples. Again, all different from their past, but very successful and good games in their own right, and they didn't ruin the series either.
6- You're still the only person I've ever heard bitch about calling SOTC Ico 2/Nico, or The Last Guardian Ico 3/Trico. We get it BBQ. You don't like change. But those are extremely apt names for them, as they all appear to take place in the same world, they're developed as part of a common project, they all have similar stylings, they're all very atmospheric puzzle games. They might achieve these ends differently, but they are definitely a series, not unconnected games, and I know no one else who has trouble accepting this.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Metroid: Other M

1- I'm referring to Mario as an indepth gaming experience, not a game where he happens to show up or have his name in the title. Games that are not focused on multiplayer, with Mario as the main or sole character.

No, what you're doing is trying to split hairs. Mario is a character that transcends genre. You're one of the people that bitches all the time about how current Sonic games suck. That's because they keep trying to take Sonic places he can't go and doesn't work in.

Mario pretty much works anywhere. He's an everyman sort of character. Always has been.

2- Yes, FF brings big changes, but going online was a huge step, and is still extremely controversial. Just go look at any FF14 thread on a non FFXI fan site and you'll see people bitching about it being online, and that they shouldn't even include them in the numbered series.

And they can crybitch all they want, they want MMOs to be free. That's not practical any way you cut it, even the "free" ones you end up paying for. They have three FFXIII games coming and that's not good enough for them?

3- Dirge of Cerberus wasn't good. I'm not saying that "oh, well, all games should always be different just because they can". I'm stating that just because a game isn't like it used to be doesn't mean it will be awful.

You've never stated why Dirge "wasn't good," though. Just saying it doesn't make it true. It was a pretty average shooter, nothing bad about it, just nothing spectacular, either. It was passable enough to play through for the story.

Metroid: Other M is being made by a team that has lost thier leader and has proven historically that cinematic storytelling is not thier strong suit. I can understand a cinematic direction for stories where Samus is making constant human contact, but that story HAD BETTER be handled by the writers at Intelligent Systems and NOT Team Ninja.

4- So I had, what, two examples you could think of any sort of fault with...? And all of my examples are terrible? OK.

Just as much as you can just say "its a bad game" without ramming a few more brain cells together to come up with a better reason.

Resident Evil 4? I'm in ur Spanish Colony shootin' teh scary Cthulu peoples. This is a change in direction? Maybe in regards to it having more ammo and less survival elements, but its still a zombie-shooter at its core. You should be pointing at Resident Evil 5 here, where it was even less about survival horror and in broad daylight most o the time.

Castlevania: SOTN - What about it? They made it Metriod-like, but the RPG elements were nothing new to the series, nor was Alucard. Sub Weapons worked just like they had in the past. They took stages and made them interconnected. Magic was totally new.

Luigi's Mansion - you're seriously including this? Luigi never had his own game before this one. He's the Donald Duck to Mario's Mickey Mouse. There were no expectations to have for a Luigi game.

5- Again, you're letting your own biases of what the name means interfere with your ability to enjoy the game. Look at my examples. Again, all different from their past, but very successful and good games in their own right, and they didn't ruin the series either.

They didn't go bad because they weren't handed over to a radically different team even in contrast to the Japanese side of things. When it was given to Retro, we had no idea what to expect, but Team Ninja has a track record of mediocre fighters, games for pervs and one good action game followed by a hackjob follow up.

NG II was complete trash (this is coming from people who liked the first NG and not me) and the reaction to internal politics affecting the game throws the credibility of the developer into question.

6- You're still the only person I've ever heard bitch about calling SOTC Ico 2/Nico, or The Last Guardian Ico 3/Trico. We get it BBQ. You don't like change. But those are extremely apt names for them, as they all appear to take place in the same world, they're developed as part of a common project, they all have similar stylings, they're all very atmospheric puzzle games. They might achieve these ends differently, but they are definitely a series, not unconnected games, and I know no one else who has trouble accepting this.

Which is why I've heard people saying "I hope this connects this time" which would imply that it didn't in SOTC. No shit they have similar styles, that's why people want to see the connection.

And I don't mind change at all, but I do mind Team Ninja handling my favorite series. I could list off a dozen better teams to hand it off to that would do a much, much better job.

[Feba]

Re: Metroid: Other M

1- No, Sonic games suck because they are bad games. There is a difference between putting Mr. T in charge of a daycare and putting Mr. T in charge of a daycare and getting bad comedy writers.

2- There's nothing splitting hairs about it. Mario does a lot of things, sure, but very few of those things revolve solely around him, and are inarguably games where he progresses from one place to another with some kind of story.

3- Uh, no. Not all of them want it to be free because it's a numbered entry in the series. They want it to not be online. Because, you know, not everyone wants to put in months of their life for the storyline, or play it constantly to experience it as they update it?

4- Don't take my word for it. Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantasy VII (ps2: 2006): Reviews . Not everyone puts story so high above gameplay that they'll muddle through it. I know there's been at least one game (Killer7) where I absolutely wanted to go through the story, but couldn't put up with the gameplay.

5- Notice it was Team Ninja + Nintendo. Nintendo still owns it. Your criticisms are as invalid as criticizing Samus's jiggle physics. Once we see it, then we can criticize it. Hell, trailers have a very bad habit of overstating action. It's possible that this game is more ambient and less focused on communication with people than Super Metroid was.

6- Yes, RE4 was a big change in direction. Different controls, it stopped using fixed camera angles, more focused on shooting than survival horror. And yes, it was a slower transformational change, but by and large it occurred in 4. That you don't consider it much of a change is exactly what i'm talking about-- what you perceive a series as is biased.

7- Yes, connecting the stages was a big change from how it had been. It changed the series permanently.

8- Luigi had appeared plenty of time in Mario games, as basically a Mario fill-in, a second Mario. Luigi's Mansion was him being on his own, saving Mario. It wasn't a platformer. And just Luigi getting his own game is a pretty big change from the status quo.

10- Do you mean connects to the storyline of Ico, or connects to the emotion of the player? Because SOTC did both superbly. Did you play SOTC, BBQ? It's not exactly like Ico in every single way, but it is a more than loyal follow-up.

9- I place this at the end because it comes up before 10, but the end is the best place for it. Yes, but Nintendo seems to have had quite a bit of involvement with this. Plus, you know that Nintendo has the resources internally to do this extremely well if they want, they wouldn't have gone to Team Ninja without a reason (Retro having their hands full with something most likely, or something interesting Team Ninja had to offer). Even then, if they wanted a better company, they could've gotten one. I can understand being wary, that's totally justified, but being angry and hateful based on what we've seen so far is silly. Let the game's quality determine the game's quality, not your opinion of the developer's previous efforts.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Metroid: Other M

Feba, I stopped taking game reviewers seriously years ago, pointing to Metacritic is one of the best ways to weaken any point. Some game "jounalists" these days are clearly paid off, others don't invest the proper time required to review the content. This makes reader reviews a bit more credible - they have the time to invest.

Hell, some sites right now neglect to review releases at all save for the most hyped ones.

Metacritic also includes Yahoo Games and Maxim game reviews. Maxim reviews games like this:

Explosions = Good
Thinking = Bad

Also, have you played any of the Team Ninja games? Nintendo sure wasn't there every step of the way for Super Mario Strikers or Battalion Wars, the latter of which got a sequel that is just as embarassing to the Wars franchise. They were there for Prime, sure, but what if they feel its OK to leave Team Ninja to their own devices? Japanese cultural bias and all that.

Also, pretty clear you've not played the last two Castlevania games. They're rather dissimilar to Metroid, which isn't a bad thing. they feel even more like spiritual successors to Simon's Quest. Clearly the combat elements build on what they learned in Aria and Dawn of Sorrow, but its far less interconnected.

But at least its not the hallway-fest Lament of Innocence was.

[Feba]

Re: Metroid: Other M

BBQ. the entire first half of your post is invalid. Scroll to the bottom and look at user reviews if you don't trust publications.

And I don't think it's too hard to see that Nintendo will almost certainly treat a Metroid game more seriously than Mario Football or the * Wars series. On Castlevania, you're right, I haven't played one in awhile, but you have to admit that even if they're moving away for it, it still lasted that way for quite a while.

[Armando]

Re: Metroid: Other M

A friend of mine linked me to this today: Kotaku - Nintendo: New Metroid Is NOT Metroid Dread - Metroid It seems all hope is not lost yet. I really hope this Metroid Dread turns out to be Metroid 5.

[Malacite]

Re: Metroid: Other M

You and me both.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Metroid: Other M

Well, the news that its already been in development for quite some time gives me a degree of assurance this will go the right direction. I've just taken exception to TN as a developer from the day the started putting Ryu Hayabusa in DOA.

Don't buy the "alternate universe" speculation for a second though, Metroid has a very deep and well established mythos. Its not like its Zelda where Link is a different person every other game. We saw Adam in the trailer, he addressed Samus as "Lady." There's a story connection between this new title and other Metroid games.

I do want to see Dread come to fruition as well, its been in limbo for quite some time.

[Armando]

Re: Metroid: Other M

Yeah, those comments about Other M being an alternate universe are unfounded.

Although, I'm starting to doubt that Other M is a prequel (or at least a prequel to Zero Mission) after all. After reading the Kotaku comments and inspecting the trailer again, it's true that they show a scene from Super Metroid's ending. So the game would have to occur at least after Super Metroid; though, with the Fusion suit nowhere to be found, this may end up being another in-between game =/

EDIT: Also, they better not make another Samus clone. One was cool (and had a totally legit explanation; don't know what's the deal with Dark Samus since I haven't played much of Echoes yet). Two was pushing it. Three would just be Sonic the Hedgehog 2006. I'd rather see them revive Ridley for the billionth time or somehow drag Metroids into this all over again, despite how overdone both plot points already are.

[Gobo]

Re: Metroid: Other M

Its the story of the time between Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion. (Hence why there was the image of Super Metroid's Mother Brain and the last metroid in the trailer) Seems to focus more on Ms Aran than anything.

Full interview here

IGN: E3 2009: Metroid: Other M Heavy on Action and Story