What Makes FFXI great; or, Rapture Hopes

[amusinginquiry]

Re: What Makes FFXI great; or, Rapture Hopes

The most annoying thing about equipment swapping to me was the fact that it took up so much macro space, and in some cases required more than one macro to switch to all of the gear you wanted.

Add that to the macro that you still had to hit to perform the actual action that you swapped the gear out for, then the macro to switch back to your original gear... it all got a bit tedious.

That type of button mashing was just about the least immersive aspect of the whole game.

Not to mention the amount of inventory space it took up, especially if you had several high level jobs.

Having to mule also sucked.
Let's make sure that's abolished in the next game...

[Lmnop]

Re: What Makes FFXI great; or, Rapture Hopes

Devil's Advocate, you could take the game FFXI as something of a 'digest' version of Vana'diel. The world is obviously larger than what we see, time passes at an increased rate. Items are also used instantly or nearly instantly, such as food. It could be that the actions we see are just very condensed versions of what actually occurs; such as your characters sitting down for a meal. Of course, that makes the amount of time between attacks even lamer, when you think about it...

Each attack represents an individual maneuver coming to fruition. When your feint -> double corkscrew moonsault attack fails, you have missed and should probably invest in more accuracy gear.

Kailea, by your logic there's really no need for a storyline or continuity. It's fantasy and anything can happen, sure. So adventurers can write their own physics and fly to the moon, right? And Cloud is Kam'Lanaut and his real name is Yoichi Wada and Vana'diel is a very small spaceship in Martin Short's bloodstream. Oh, and when people die, they become Opo-opos (who, by-the-by, are planning a devious scheme with their dark ally Supermanâ„¢ to install vending machines throughout Altepa for the parched adventurers) with a rather uncomfortable skin rash.

[Mhurron]

Re: What Makes FFXI great; or, Rapture Hopes

Kailea, by your logic there's really no need for a storyline or continuity. It's fantasy and anything can happen, sure.

Well, no because then without any story or continuity at all there would be no reason to play, and some would argue there wouldn't really be much of a game. Still it is just a game and a fantasy one at that, sometimes the why is simply 'game mechanics' or 'that's just the way the game is played.'

[Ellipses]

Re: What Makes FFXI great; or, Rapture Hopes

"Game mechanics" is a perfectly valid reason for quite a lot of things, but that doesn't rule out RP reasons co-existing with them. We know why leather underwear make us attack harder from a mechanical standpoint, but there would be more immersion if there were an explanation that made sense in the context of the world.

We're talking about ways to make the next game better, after all. Whether or not something is absolutely necessary is just the ground floor of that discussion. We don't need to know why some undies are more flame-retardant than others, but it'd sure be nice if we did. Some people prefer a minimalist approach there, I suppose, where they get to imagine up their own reasons for bits of mechanics like that.

[Raydeus]

Re: What Makes FFXI great; or, Rapture Hopes

I think there are things better left unexplained.

The only thing I'd do if I was working on XI is add a little special effect for when people dissapears and appears again (read blink) to change gear. Then let community theorize about it and give vague sort of non-answers if I was ever asked about it.



Edit > Also if it wasn't for PS2 limitations I'd go with barely visible (like almost invisible) weapons surrounding the player that would circle around (while in combat) and change every time the player switched weapons. Depending on what (equipable) weapons were in the player's inventory.

In other words Versus style.

[Ellipses]

Re: What Makes FFXI great; or, Rapture Hopes

I think there are things better left unexplained.

The only thing I'd do if I was working on XI is add a little special effect for when people dissapears and appears again (read blink) to change gear. Then let community theorize about it and give vague sort of non-answers if I was ever asked about it.

And make the animation ever so slightly different depending on which direction you're facing.

[Mhurron]

Re: What Makes FFXI great; or, Rapture Hopes

We know why leather underwear make us attack harder from a mechanical standpoint, but there would be more immersion if there were an explanation that made sense in the context of the world.

That is the perfect example of ending the discussion at 'because that's the way the game works.' It doesn't aid immersion at all, that is the way the game works. If you have to have every little mechanic answered nothing will satisfy you because as soon as you give one 'explanation' in the fantasy setting for mechanics, you're just going to lead to another 'why?'

Why am I going to kill the Shadow Lords is a plot point, you need to have why's answered here for immersion.

Why can I cary 60 of these things? Why can I use a macro to change gear? Why does this have this stat and that has that stat? Why can I only have one of this but as many as I want of that? These are game mechanics. You can carry 60 of something because you have 60 inventory slots for items. You can use a macro because that's how the game works. Stats are there because otherwise that gear would be useless and the game relies on gear giving stats. You can only have one of that because its marked EX.

[Ellipses]

Re: What Makes FFXI great; or, Rapture Hopes

That is the perfect example of ending the discussion at 'because that's the way the game works.' It doesn't aid immersion at all, that is the way the game works. If you have to have every little mechanic answered nothing will satisfy you because as soon as you give one 'explanation' in the fantasy setting for mechanics, you're just going to lead to another 'why?'

Why am I going to kill the Shadow Lords is a plot point, you need to have why's answered here for immersion.

Why can I cary 60 of these things? Why can I use a macro to change gear? Why does this have this stat and that has that stat? Why can I only have one of this but as many as I want of that? These are game mechanics. You can carry 60 of something because you have 60 inventory slots for items. You can use a macro because that's how the game works. Stats are there because otherwise that gear would be useless and the game relies on gear giving stats. You can only have one of that because its marked EX.

Good points!

To me it's just a matter of degrees, really. You do have to draw the line somewhere. My motivation for all this is that I'm more in with the camp that would rather not have so many stat boosts on armor. It's really prevalent in FFXI, so providing an explanation for every little thing here would just get unwieldy.

But if those stat boosts were rolled into other mechanics, so that having +X ATK on a pair of socks is actually pretty rare, providing an RP explanation for that would make more sense, and I'd welcome it. Even just a little flavor text. I'm leaning in the direction of (visible) armor not being such a source of stat boosts, but more just there for appearance, so it all kind of follows from that for me.

This isn't really a deal-breaker either way. It's in the realm of "Hey, that'd be neat." The explanations aren't necessary, but used judiciously, they can add something to the game's flavor. Just like the root of all this nonsense: D&D. A +1 Shield is just a +1 Shield, and that's fine, but Lemmiwinks' Magnetic Buckler of Great Fondue has a story behind it.

[Havelock]

Re: What Makes FFXI great; or, Rapture Hopes

The constant gear swapping would absolutely be #1 on my list of things to ditch in Rapture.
I remember the first party I ever had with a PL. I kept wondering why on earth the RDM was changing his clothes every 6 seconds.
Little did I know... So, yeah, limit or abolish the /equip command. Please.

#1 on my list of things to keep would be Level Sync. I know it creates a lot of problems,
too, but 20 minutes lfg vs. 60 minutes lfg outweighs them all if you ask me.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: What Makes FFXI great; or, Rapture Hopes

...but 20 minutes lfg vs. 60 minutes lfg outweighs them all if you ask me.

Some of us "older" players didn't get parties for up to a week back in the day. Leveling my drk was extremely painful! I definitely do NOT want to see this happening again in the new MMO.

[DakAttack]

Re: What Makes FFXI great; or, Rapture Hopes

Good points!

To me it's just a matter of degrees, really. You do have to draw the line somewhere. My motivation for all this is that I'm more in with the camp that would rather not have so many stat boosts on armor. It's really prevalent in FFXI, so providing an explanation for every little thing here would just get unwieldy.

But if those stat boosts were rolled into other mechanics, so that having +X ATK on a pair of socks is actually pretty rare, providing an RP explanation for that would make more sense, and I'd welcome it. Even just a little flavor text. I'm leaning in the direction of (visible) armor not being such a source of stat boosts, but more just there for appearance, so it all kind of follows from that for me.

This isn't really a deal-breaker either way. It's in the realm of "Hey, that'd be neat." The explanations aren't necessary, but used judiciously, they can add something to the game's flavor. Just like the root of all this nonsense: D&D. A +1 Shield is just a +1 Shield, and that's fine, but Lemmiwinks' Magnetic Buckler of Great Fondue has a story behind it.

I always thought games would be so much more interesting if you couldn't see your stats. You would only be aware of health and mana related numbers, but you wouldn't see many anywhere else. No status screen to derive formulas from, no numbers on your weapons to increase your e-peen, just qualitative statements here and there to give you a general sense of what's going on. "Standard to the royal army, this sturdy sword is thick without sacrificing speed." And underneath would read, "Enhances Parry" or something. No damage, or attack, or what have you. Maybe stats would be qualified using traits to give the player a sense of their ability, but you wouldn't know you had X amount of Strength, and Y amount of Vitality.

[Tickmeoff]

Re: What Makes FFXI great; or, Rapture Hopes

Some of us "older" players didn't get parties for up to a week back in the day. Leveling my drk was extremely painful! I definitely do NOT want to see this happening again in the new MMO.

I played DRG back in the loldrg days. This was the first time I quit FFXI because after a month of no invites I gave up. Dragoon has always been my favorite job and the reason I played FFXI in the first place, so hitting such a huge wall was pretty demoralizing.


EDIT: I guess I could actually make this post on topic. For all the previously mentioned reasons and possibly some more, gear swapping needs to be left out of Rapture. I'd also like to see some better job balance so that the above mentioned situation doesn't see a repeat as well.

One other thing that comes to mind: no more mixed region servers. It was cool and playing with folks from Japan, and I actually enjoyed being able to chat with them once I got the IME plugin working, but I think it's more trouble than it's worth. Complications arise when one region figures something out like a new synthesis nobody has discovered yet and they keep it to themselves, or you get people claiming GM favoritism towards JP players or that JP players can claim mobs faster because they are closer to the servers, and so on and so forth. There's also just a general aura of racism surrounding it all.

Also, instances. I'd go into more detail but my break is over.

[hexx]

Re: What Makes FFXI great; or, Rapture Hopes

The constant gear swapping would absolutely be #1 on my list of things to ditch in Rapture.
I remember the first party I ever had with a PL. I kept wondering why on earth the RDM was changing his clothes every 6 seconds.
Little did I know... So, yeah, limit or abolish the /equip command. Please.

#1 on my list of things to keep would be Level Sync. I know it creates a lot of problems,
too, but 20 minutes lfg vs. 60 minutes lfg outweighs them all if you ask me.

I still disagree, more and more, I see that people who complain about this are people who are 1) too lazy to farm money, 2) because of said laziness cant afford gear and/or to do their gobbiebag quests, 3) too lazy to camp mobs that drop r/ex versions of some of that gear.

So no, dont take away gear swaps, some of us actually like being able to max out to get some extra "oomf" into our WS thank you.

[Tickmeoff]

Re: What Makes FFXI great; or, Rapture Hopes

I still disagree, more and more, I see that people who complain about this are people who are 1) too lazy to farm money, 2) because of said laziness cant afford gear and/or to do their gobbiebag quests, 3) too lazy to camp mobs that drop r/ex versions of some of that gear.

So no, dont take away gear swaps, some of us actually like being able to max out to get some extra "oomf" into our WS thank you.

Wrong, wrong and wrong. I'll just quote a post I made in another thread so I don't have to type it all again:

The problem I have with gear swapping is that it removes the need for the player to make a choice on what they should wear. You don't need to worry about gearing towards a purpose because you can just gear for anything any time with the push of a button. Negative stats on a piece of gear to compensate for other amazing stats become meaningless when you only need to wear that gear for half a second. Every mage can use every staff to have every boost to every element at all times.

"X gear wouldn't exist if gear swapping couldn't be done" is bullshit. It would only mean you would have to actually think about what gear you're buying/using instead of buying/using everything you want.

Pretty much sums it up.

[hexx]

Re: What Makes FFXI great; or, Rapture Hopes

Wrong, wrong and wrong. I'll just quote a post I made in another thread so I don't have to type it all again:




Pretty much sums it up.

Since when are you the authority on who's wrong and who isn't? What I stated was my personal opinion, whether it's wrong or not is NOT for you to decide ^^b


And in response to your second quote, people STILL have to decide over what gear to wear and macro in, so the decision making is still there. Some like to gear for pure STR and others go for a balance of STR and DEX for higher crits. Pure and simple, you gear up how you want, you carry what gear you wanna macro in, and voila! There's your setup. If you don't like /equip macros, thats fine and dandy, dont use them! It's your choice, but there's no need to force others into it.