What Makes FFXI great; or, Rapture Hopes

[amusinginquiry]

I know that this has been (over)done on some forums, but I haven't seen anything recently posted on this forum to this affect, so...

For you, what is it about FFXI that makes it stand out from other MMOs? What should SE carry over, and/or leave behind, to it's next MMO, Rapture?

For me, the best part of FFXI was a bit intangible. Looking past all the detailed explanations of Job Systems, community, gameplay, storyline, etc., there was some overall feeling to the game that I was attracted to. Perhaps it was just the sum total of all those miniscule details of the game. Perhaps it was simply the fact that it was my first MMO. Having tried a few other MMOs after FFXI, none of them satisfied me like the first. None of them had that aura of enjoyment that blanketed FFXI.

I mean, you can, to a certain degree, lose yourself in any game that is about mindless repitition, increasing stats, and leveling up. Yet I haven't been able to recreate that fervor that drove me to accomplish things in FFXI.

That being said, some things I would definately like to see carried over to Rapture:

• sub jobs
• similar job system, mirrored after the early FFs
• multilingual servers
• similar control scheme, no skill bars or oversimplified menus
• comparably harsh death penalties. I sort of like an unforgiving world.
• comparably difficult/long journey to maximum level
• references and tie-ins to FF lore
• same enhanced feeling of community and teamwork

Things I would like to see new to Rapture:

• an improvement on the auto-attack aspect of melee. perhaps having timing, positioning, stance, or technique of attack come in to play.
• visible change between day AND night.
• jumping would be nice, if done right, and not cartoonish.
• improved quests that have more of an effect on your character and the world.
• I would really like to see the entire world to be in a constant state of flux. monsters changing they're spawning/hunting patterns, environments changing with the seasons, etc. although this is probably a bit complex to ask for just yet.
• and of course more viable solo'ing. if it doesn't come at a cost to the teamwork aspect.

Things I hope they leave out of Rapture:

• of course, RMT, as much as is possible. and it looks like they've learned how to deal with them in XI^-^
• the overdependence of some jobs on specific subjobs/builds. it would be nice for every job to have a wider range of capability.
• can't really think of much else atm...

Thoughts?


edit: I guess this could have gone in General FFXI Discussion

[Pai Pai Master]

Re: What Makes FFXI great; or, Rapture Hopes

Tarutarus please.

[GreatMno]

Re: What Makes FFXI great; or, Rapture Hopes

What I like best about FFXI is its feel. Whenever I play I just get a nostalgic feel, a sense that I have been there before and that I belong, even if I've seen it for the first time.

[Kailea]

Re: What Makes FFXI great; or, Rapture Hopes

Miithra or similar race..... thats is all ^.^

[Malacite]

Re: What Makes FFXI great; or, Rapture Hopes

haven't we discussed this before? Pretty sure there's a very old topic on the same subject...

[amusinginquiry]

Re: What Makes FFXI great; or, Rapture Hopes

haven't we discussed this before? Pretty sure there's a very old topic on the same subject...

As I said to start with, I hadn't seen anything posted in a few years on "What Makes FFXI Great" and I saw none that were about what should be done the same in Rapture. I was mainly wanting to know people's opinions on the latter. That's mainly the reason I didn't post in General Discussion.

And on the subject of races: I do hope they keep Mithras and Tarus, or, even better, replace them with original races that are just as charismatic and just as well done.

It's kind of a given that there will be the standard Human race, and I could do without Galkas or Elvaans. Just don't replace Mithras with Vieras , they don't even come close.


edit: If it matters at all I DID bother to use the search function, so it wasn't just laziness
http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/gen...different.html
http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/off...-so-great.html
http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/gen...different.html

[Kailea]

Re: What Makes FFXI great; or, Rapture Hopes

Every time someone says Rapture, I just think Bioshock ;p

[Lmnop]

Re: What Makes FFXI great; or, Rapture Hopes

Andrew Ryan says what?

I thought it was established S-E's next MMO wouldn't be a Final Fantasy..?

Regardless....

-I like that FFXI isn't about fighting 20 wimps at a time and mowing through to the next group. However, I'm not terribly keen on the 6 men vs 1 rabbit layout. I'd like to see standard encounters be against 2-4 or something.

-Blink tanking won't be so all-encompassing. Though I expect a similar mechanic that will be more fallible on a job with other means of negating damage, it won't be what carries said job into super-invincibility.

And on a related note...

-Melee had better not be such a liability. Melee being as flimsy as mages (actually moreso. Pretty much every mage has stoneskin and cure) mixed with the whole "tp feeding" concept... yeah doesn't mesh well so much.

-Interface better be more informative.

Oh yeah... this is supposed to be things i'd like to keep. hmm.

I like FFXI's difficulty. Particularly pre-AU. I like the focus on group tactics. Now that they know what players will do to subvert or completely ignore mechanics, I think S-E will figure something out like Skillchains but more individual (everyone's role will be consistently proven).

One of FFXI's biggest problems with support jobs is the skill system. Or maybe... the biggest problem with the skill system is support jobs? Having both in place is what makes so many combinations infeasible. I would like Support Jobs to go bye-bye, but I'd like to see the Skill system made more robust and necessary (as opposed to just having one skill capped and not worrying about the rest) -- Problem here, LOTS of MMOs these days that are entirely skill-focused. May not be a good direction for S-E's new MMO.

[dirtyclown]

Re: What Makes FFXI great; or, Rapture Hopes

What I would not like to see in the next MMO is my Great Axe making me wait for a week to swing again. Sometimes the battle system feels so slow and I like a faster paced throwdown that FFXI does not offer. XI's battle system is still cool and offers a more strategic style of gameplay, but overall it's just a little too slow.

I'd also like it if SE learned from their mistakes with this game and made a tank class the right way, instead of letting things stay broken or changing a huge part of the class' functionality and then leaving it fucked up for a year or so before doing anything about it. Also, an alternative way for tank jobs to do things when they're not tanking so that those of us who choose to be one of those classes doesn't get shafted out of everything except for tanking big mobs for other peoples' gear.

I also want some pvp. Not Brenner or Ballista, no schedules to adhere to or vouchers to buy, just let me break some skulls when I feel like it. Scheduling murder always struck me as odd and just makes it feel less exciting.

I'd also like to see SE move away from the "You're going to work together whether you like it or not" gameplay formula. Groups are cool and all, but I've found that random people are complete assholes and I do not like them. It's like hanging out with Simon Cowell while he's in belligerent prick mode, and the only thing he can assault you with is bad spelling and grammar.

SE might drop the ball, but if this game is a learning experience for them, the next one will improve on what they screwed up the first time around.

Edit: I just thought of something else. In their next MMO I'd rather not feel like my character was running knee deep through mashed potatoes. Needs a "run" button, not a "jog" button.

[amusinginquiry]

Re: What Makes FFXI great; or, Rapture Hopes

Andrew Ryan says what?

I thought it was established S-E's next MMO wouldn't be a Final Fantasy..?

[...]

One of FFXI's biggest problems with support jobs is the skill system. Or maybe... the biggest problem with the skill system is support jobs? Having both in place is what makes so many combinations infeasible. I would like Support Jobs to go bye-bye, but I'd like to see the Skill system made more robust and necessary (as opposed to just having one skill capped and not worrying about the rest) -- Problem here, LOTS of MMOs these days that are entirely skill-focused. May not be a good direction for S-E's new MMO.

I could be wrong, but I don't believe SE has explicitly stated whether or not the MMO will be an addition to the FF series.
"it still hasn't been decided whether that's going to be a game in the FF series, a continuation, or a totally new game." (can't recall where exactly I quoted this from atm)
The fact that Crystal Tools (the White Engine) is being used to develop it makes it feel like it will be a FF game as well. Although it doesn't necessarily have to be.
Personally I think it may be FFXIII: Haeresis, the name that SE registered, but hasn't released any info on yet.

I have to agree with the second part. Although having sub-jobs made the whole levelling-all-jobs-on-a-single-character thing feel more natural. But that could be retained and sub-jobs done away with and replaced with the ability to actually choose/change your skillset. Although I've never liked focus put completely on abilities, such as in other MMOs or RPGs. It would be a big step away from FFXI though, and that might be a good thing, since I assume SE wants to try something new.

I'd also like to see SE move away from the "You're going to work together whether you like it or not" gameplay formula. Groups are cool and all, but I've found that random people are complete assholes and I do not like them. It's like hanging out with Simon Cowell while he's in belligerent prick mode, and the only thing he can assault you with is bad spelling and grammar.

Yeah. Being forced to rely on (possibly bad, possibly idiot, possibly asshole) other players to accomplish anything of consequence did get frustrating. Often it seemed like players would join a group, for whatever task, and IMMEDIATELY seem sick and tired of having to be in the group at all.

[Ellipses]

Re: What Makes FFXI great; or, Rapture Hopes

Things I'd like them to retain:
- Leveling multiple jobs on the same character. Not necessarily as free-wheeling as in FFXI. More on that below.
- Art direction and depth of story. This is kind of a given with SE, but it's important.
- Simple interface. The UI needs serious work, but I don't think the actual methods of control are part of that (except non-sucky mouse control would be nice).
- Focus on cooperation. Not as force-fed as it is here, but again, more below.
- Large variety of activities/points systems. There are a ton of different ways to get a ton of different rewards in this game, and that's kind of nice.
- Non-obsolescence of existing gear. It's nice that expansions don't make everything awesome before them totally obsolete.

Things I'd like to change/improve/just be different:
- UI. The simple controls are good, but the macro system is crippled and the information available (recasts etc.) isn't nearly good enough.
- Competition/cooperation. People are going to compete in an MMO. It's natural. I think part of the problem with endgame drama etc., apart from the simple rarity of resources (HNMs etc.) is that it's the only outlet for that. I don't personally like PvP, but it at least serves a social purpose. There should be more outlets for direct competition. I'm not sure what to say about cooperation. I think I'd prefer for it to be the best option, but not as necessary as it is here, so that partying isn't quite so forced.
- Variety within each job. The subjob system here does this, to a degree. I don't really have an opinion on carrying over the subjob system. There are other ways to get variety, and I'm on the fence there. Regardless, I'd still like to see a bigger variety of specialization and varying roles. A related point below.
- More inter-job interaction. There's very little specific inter-job play here. I'm picturing something where certain combinations of jobs in a party bring certain benefits/penalties. Like, inviting a WHM and a DRG means you can do X and Y, whereas a WHM and a SAM means A and B instead.
- Crafting. It ought to be feasible to level a craft while you level a job, and use it for your own benefit. Also, either more focus on consumables, or a way to get gear out of circulation, so that the market doesn't get irrevocably flooded with Beetle Subligars.
- Changing Jobs. I love that you can experiment with any job on any character, but I think it would be more interesting if there were some restriction or penalty. Maybe a cool-down measured in days between job changes. Or losing a certain amount of progress (temporarily! Either easy to make up the progress on its own, or just a cool-down after changing before everything is back to full power). Just enough that it's not a good idea to change several times a day.
- Moar strategy. The same formulaic battles over and over and over and over is boring as hell.

Things to leave out:
- Gear swaps.
- Long-ass travel.
- Long-ass timed-spawn (H)NMs. There are better ways to make something "difficult" or rare.
- City-specific auction houses.

[ShepardG]

Re: What Makes FFXI great; or, Rapture Hopes

PS2 DO NOT WANT!
PC/360/PS3 ONRY!

How about:

Final Fantasy: Rapture

Either 1000 years in the Future of Vana' diel, or a 1000 years in the past.

[Wise Donkey]

Re: What Makes FFXI great; or, Rapture Hopes

The only thing I really and truly want to without a doubt carry over is the ability to change jobs on characters. This allows you to experience all the jobs without having to redo quests and redo quests and redo quests. It is by far my favorite feature of FFXI.

[ShepardG]

Re: What Makes FFXI great; or, Rapture Hopes

yes wise donkey, i see now why you have gotten your name....it has something to do with intelligence, and also something to do with *insert some sort of penis joke here*

[Lmnop]

Re: What Makes FFXI great; or, Rapture Hopes

My face is a genius

Seriously. I think I agree with every single word in this post.

Except gear swaps. >_> With a storyline justification, I think they're great. I like to think of them as a summoning of power. Much in the same way that a simple pair of crafted ruby rings can make me stronger (note that a level 1 tarutaru monk probably crafted them -- not a powerful mage). Or that a Warrior apparently doesn't learn to swing a great axe and go berserk in his own right. He requires the Moogle Connectionâ„¢ to get it done.

Just make them take up their own inventory.