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Persona 4 AKA "Everyone Loves Nanako-chan"

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  • Persona 4 AKA "Everyone Loves Nanako-chan"

    OK, so I haven't seen much talk of this game since July. It hit the US earlier this month and after finishing I'm going to say is that, along with Persona 3 before it, it might break into your top ten RPGs as easily as they have mine.

    I've often been amused when someone says they could "relate" to spiky-haired, melodramatic heroes. Can you really relate to some guy who's been subjected to an experiment, a guy who had his memories siphoned away by more powerful forces in exchange for great power or some chick who was fated to be a sacrifice and must endure a long pilgrimage for the sake of her faith?

    Can't say I can. Maybe you do, maybe there's a padded cell somewhere out there for you. Maybe you can twist that padded cell into yet another metaphor about your life. Have fun with that.

    So first off, Persona 4's kids are real as real can be. They have problems kids actually grow up dealing with. You know, like that girl who's possessive of her best friend and loses her ability to cope with a crisis when the friend isn't there. I practically stood up and said, "That's my sister when she was 15!" Things like the weight of family traditions, identity issues and more are what the kids in Persona 4 deal with. Real stuff.

    Even the hero's situation is something people can relate to, which is adapting to life in a new place. Making new friends, being a transfer student in a new school and adapting to life in a small town far from the big city he's used to.

    Of course, this wouldn't be an RPG without dungeons, swords and summoning great creatures of myth and lore. Persona 4 has plenty of that, but here the next exam at school takes priority over saving the world at times.

    Persona 4 continues the tradition of Social Links started out in P3. Building up relationships in Persona 4 also enhances the kinds of Personas you create elsewhere in the game. And again, these people you form relationships with aren't like some guy who thinks he may be a clone of some other guy and hates that that guy burnt his home to the ground and killed his ditzy girlfriend. Again, real problems. Like a child who's reluctant to accept his new stepmother or a kid living in the shadow of an older sibling.

    Building up these Links to your party members has addtional benefits, from taking a mortal blow for you or helping a fallen ally back to thier feet after a successful attack on the enemy. Hell, free status cures sometimes, too. Cool beans.

    The action of the game comes from a murder mystery that has rocked the small suburb of Inaba. Your uncle (and he's actually pretty cool), is a detective at the heart of case, complete with dopey partner and a sullen daughter often left alone because of the nature of his work.

    You become involved with the case in the most bizzare of ways. Upon hearing a local urban legend about a TV program called the Midnight Channel, you decide to check it out. On rainy nights at midnight, the image of your soulmate is supposed to appear when the TV is turned off. Turns out, someone appears. Not only that, you can now stick your hand inside the TV, as though it were a portal to another world.

    OK, full stop. That sounds like a saturday-morning cartoon cliche and not very easy to relate to. Well, I'm gonna tell you the game succeeds in making you buy into this premise.

    Turns out the people you've been seeing on the Midnight Channel are the people turning up dead in Inaba. You and your friends decide the cops wouldn't buy such a story and, of course, must solve the case themselves. Along the way in this TV realm you meet a bear (aptly) named Teddie. Says this world of his is getting messed up ever since humans were being thrown into it and asks if you'll help him resolve the matter and calm the "shadows" within his world.

    And thus our adventure begins, the hero and his friends go about thier daily lives and investigate this world after school

    There's a lot of combat improvements over the previous game. For one, you can control your allies' actions now. Sounds pretty standard, but all your allies in Persona 3 were AI controlled. This time you have the option to control them or let them decide for themselves. I've played both angles, often reverting to AI controls when I needed to re-explore a particular dungeon.

    The dungeons are again randomized, but have more varied designs and this time have solid themes. Exploring Tartarus in P3 was always kind of a drag because no matter how much they changed up the look of a floor, it unfolded predictably.

    The combat, again, has seen upgrades. An oracle type of ally now records the enemy weaknesses you've discovered instead of gradually telling you. The "One more" system returns, along with All-Out Attacks. Exploit the enemy's weakness to score a knockdown, knock down all enemies to perform an all-out attack which allows you go gang up and beat down the baddies. The All-Out Attacks are very Disgaea, but satisfying nonetheless and help combat come to a decisive end very often.

    While I initally had gripes about weapon-type weaknesses being removed, one of Persona 3's problems was when you had an enemy immune to a certain weapon type and spell type, it sometimes left an ally completely gimped. So now all weapons are considered the same type of damage.

    Taking a page from other RPGs, there's now an NPC that forges weapons from the various sellable doodads you'll pick up in your dungeon exploits. This give you a reason to retread dungeons at times, and there will be other incentives as well.

    As for the presentation, acting and music, once again its all very top-notch. The soundtrack moves away from the hip-hop/j-pop feel of Persona 3 to something a little more jazzy and light, particularly for the day-to-day events. The theme to each dungeon is unique this time as well, the music often reflecting the theme of the dungeon. And, of course, there's that grinding rock guitar sound showing up at various points, wouldn't be a Shin Megami Tensei franchise title without it.

    The acting is solid and it has no qualms about inserting Japanese honorifics, names and terminology into the story. There's a mini-glossary in the manual for terms you could be unfamiliar with, which is a nice addition. In fact, P4 is a stark contrast to the first two installments of Persona, which Altus felt the need to Americanize to the point they didn't have much Japanese culture left in them. Persona 3 and 4 show how far they've come since then, letting the culture show through without shame.

    The anime cutscenes remain pretty sparse, but the level of diologue is pretty amazing overall. Persona 4 is very story-driven, yet allows you the freedom to see some of that story at your own pace or choosing. What relationships your character builds are almost entirely up to you. All quests you come upon have no deadline. There is a literal school year of events in the game, complete with Japanese holidays, exams and field trips. Fans of Persona 3 can expect some welcome nods to that game as well.

    Anyway, I've said more than enough. Put down your silly PS3 RPGs and go play this instead, you'll be glad you did. For $40 and a free OST, its one of the best deals out there for a game right now.

  • #2
    Re: Persona 4 AKA "Everyone Loves Nanako-chan"

    I had been meaning to pick this up for a while, but Misawa's Base Exchange only got this in recently (I picked it up today). I've been a fan of SMT for a while, ever since I managed to snag a copy of Nocturne. After that, it was Digital Devil Saga. I need to replay both again, it's been way too long.

    At any rate, thanks for the review. I just started Lost Odyssey, and after I finish that, or after I move back to the States in February, I'll spin up P4. I have a lot on my plate, but I snapped this up as soon as I saw it (only copy they had), and will get to it when I can.
    Last edited by LilithAngel; 12-31-2008, 04:40 AM. Reason: Happy New Year's guys! From the FUTURRRRRREEEEE!!!

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    • #3
      Re: Persona 4 AKA "Everyone Loves Nanako-chan"

      I'm kinda on the fence about this. I need to get rid of my PS2, and I already have a few games sitting around to play through. On the other hand, it's Persona.

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      • #4
        Re: Persona 4 AKA "Everyone Loves Nanako-chan"

        /sledgehammers Feba's next gen consoles.

        There, now off the fence with you.

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        • #5
          Re: Persona 4 AKA "Everyone Loves Nanako-chan"

          The wii is next gen now? Sweet!


          seriously, though, I kinda don't have any space left on my stereo, and I kinda need to open it up.

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          • #6
            Re: Persona 4 AKA "Everyone Loves Nanako-chan"

            So Kitten, I must ask. Knowing what you do now of both P3 and P4, if you could only buy one which would it be?

            I have P4, unopened and whispering to me in the night. The problem is TOO MANY OTHER GAMES! I am chugging along just fine in one and then BOOM another comes out and someone buys it for me (I try not to buy when I'm in the middle of another). Then it sits there unopened...taunting me....and I cave and open it. Then I say 'oh I'll just watch the opening' and that goes all to hell because 3 hours later I'm well past the cs's. So then I have 1/2 played games sitting there, crying, and new games tempting me with their goodness and during the fall season there are............just..........so...........many.............voices...........

            Originally posted by Feba
            But I mean I do not mind a good looking man so long as I do not have to view his penis.
            Originally posted by Taskmage
            God I hate my periods. You think passing a clot through a vagina is bad? Try it with a penis.
            Originally posted by DakAttack
            ...I'm shitting dicks out of my eyeballs in excitement for the next bestgreating game of all time ever.

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            • #7
              Re: Persona 4 AKA "Everyone Loves Nanako-chan"

              Just play your lesser games now, TGM. You just know that it's going to be easier to work away at the list than to try to contain yourself for dozens of hours of Persona.

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              • #8
                Re: Persona 4 AKA "Everyone Loves Nanako-chan"

                Well, I'd say Persona 4 was the better game over all. More refined, the characters are easier to relate to. The kids in Persona 3 are awesome, but not nearly as down-to-earth as P4's cast.

                My only quibbles are that P4 actually starts out more challenging than it ends up being toward the end and that the path to the best ending could have been more straight-forward than it actually was. The difficulty in P3 scaled better and the path to both endings was as easy as one choice or the other, rather than a complex dialogue path that had dozen ways to get a bad ending and only one good way.

                In terms of story, both game are worth the effort, but both also take at least three hours to get rolling.

                Overall, I'd still say go with P4. Easier to get into, the gameplay is more refined and the Social Link feature offers more depth. Plus the spell and buff terminology is easier to grasp thanks to being able to quick reference anything with the Square button, a feature that was absent from every SMT title before P4. I never remember the meaning behind the japanese names for buffs and debuffs in SMT games, so having the quick reference feature was really helpful. Its also nice because it lets you know the real outcome of your Personas before you fuse them or later replace an ability.

                I noticed there was a higher chance of Fusion accidents in P4 than P3. In P3 it was like a 1% chance, its a little higher in P4. Go easy on Igor, though, he does work hard making your Personas.

                At least fusion accidents in Persona 3 and 4 are more generous, even when they're accidents. In SMT Nocturne, all fusion accidents would result in a useless Slime, here there's a chance you'll still get a useful Persona by accident, just not the one you hoped for.

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                • #9
                  Re: Persona 4 AKA "Everyone Loves Nanako-chan"

                  I think Persona 3 and 4 may be the only games I've ever played where I wanted to level grind more and wasn't allowed to. It's a weird feeling. Since there's lots of personas (that's what the games are named for) and they learn abilities by leveling up, I want to level them (especially early in the game when you don't have access to the social links that would have pre-leveled them some for you), but in both games the time system pulls you through the storyline whether you want to go on or not, and experience rewards from fights are tiny. (A Suikoden-style exp system where exp is multiplied for characters/personae far below the enemy's level would have been a huge help, IMO.) Persona stats are tightly tied to their levels, so an underleveled persona makes you pathetic at *everything*, including defense (you do have your own HP and SP, at least).

                  P4 is actually worse for this since you have to pay to be healed when you leave dungeons (unless you leave the TV world altogether), and going into the TV burns basically the entire day since it doesn't have its own time of day like in P3. At least your party members don't get sick for half a week afterwards when they get tired - the unremovable-except-by-real-world-time Tired and Sick status ailments are completely gone in P4.


                  As far as rolling all physical damage into one type, I think it may have been partly because (AFAIK) you can't change your weapon type in P4 - you can change your party members, but you're still stuck with a slow ass giant sword, so a slashing-immune enemy would have been a real bitch (not that they were nice in P3, but boss floors had a warp point where you could go back and change your party, and you could change the main character's weapon anytime). It does make the variety of physical techs pretty pointless though, and I keep expecting all the old monsters that were immune or resistant to one type of physical damage to show up immune or resistant to *the one and only* type of physical damage. Hopefully they don't overuse that.

                  One thing that I think is a big improvement over P3 though - so far it's my impression that you're much less likely to be surprised by attacks from the front, which was *really* annoying in P3 - especially with slow ass giant swords, which mobs could easily run under and "surprise" you *in the middle of swinging at them* before your slow overhead swing got low enough to touch them; what made this even worse was that they weren't even that much longer than other weapons if you did manage to complete the swing. I mostly used shortswords because you *stab* with them, which aggroing monsters will run into for a neutral-initiative fight, but as mentioned, you don't have that choice in P4. Being tied to one of the worst weapons for trying to gain initiative with is bad enough; P3-level rates of surprise-from-the-front would have reached controller-throwing levels of frustration.

                  Oh, and one tiny but nice change: a shorter animation for leveling up a Social Link. Since this is something you will do well over a hundred times in the course of a game, even a few seconds is a nice improvement.
                  Defeated: Maat, Divine Might, Fenrir, Kirin, Cactrot Rapido, Xolotl, Diabolos Prime, Kurrea, 9/10 Dynamis Bosses (missing Tav), Promathia, Proto-Ultima, Proto-Omega, 4 Jailers, Apocalypse Nigh, 6/6 Nyzul Bosses
                  RDM90, PLD90, DRG90, COR90, SCH90, BLU54
                  All Nations Rank 10, ZMs & PMs Complete, AUMs Complete, Captain, Nyzul Floor 100 (5 Weapons, 4 WS), Medal of Altana, WotG Mission 15, 1/3 Addons Complete, 9/9 Abyssea Main Quests, 6/6 Caturae

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                  • #10
                    Re: Persona 4 AKA "Everyone Loves Nanako-chan"

                    Originally posted by Karinya View Post
                    I think Persona 3 and 4 may be the only games I've ever played where I wanted to level grind more and wasn't allowed to. It's a weird feeling. Since there's lots of personas (that's what the games are named for) and they learn abilities by leveling up, I want to level them (especially early in the game when you don't have access to the social links that would have pre-leveled them some for you), but in both games the time system pulls you through the storyline whether you want to go on or not, and experience rewards from fights are tiny. (A Suikoden-style exp system where exp is multiplied for characters/personae far below the enemy's level would have been a huge help, IMO.) Persona stats are tightly tied to their levels, so an underleveled persona makes you pathetic at *everything*, including defense (you do have your own HP and SP, at least).
                    I've heard the opposite criticism of P4. You do reach a point where you can practically grind indefinitely in P4, which was impossible in P3 unless we're talking the FES edition with "The Answer" Chapter, then you can grind your brains out all you want there. In P4, the infinite grind is a combination of getting Rise in her 70s and maxing out your "Hermit" Social Link.

                    Paying for healing is the trade off for characters not wearing down or getting sick, I think. If they made it so you could get your MP back just by returning to the main hub of the dungeons, you'd exploit it just like you did in P3 til your characters fatigued out.

                    I didn't really find a problem with the dungeon grind not having its own time of day, mostly because there were a multitude of other opportunities to raise the character's social stats and social links.

                    Also, I should note that Persona and other party member's only gain EXP at the same rate as the hero when they match his level. Its calculated differently when they're lower level, they actually get the EXP appropriate for their level. I've found this to be the case in both games and powerleveled personas or characters I needed to catch up.


                    As far as rolling all physical damage into one type, I think it may have been partly because (AFAIK) you can't change your weapon type in P4 - you can change your party members, but you're still stuck with a slow ass giant sword, so a slashing-immune enemy would have been a real bitch (not that they were nice in P3, but boss floors had a warp point where you could go back and change your party, and you could change the main character's weapon anytime). It does make the variety of physical techs pretty pointless though, and I keep expecting all the old monsters that were immune or resistant to one type of physical damage to show up immune or resistant to *the one and only* type of physical damage. Hopefully they don't overuse that.
                    I think it was more to the end that if a monster was immune to Strike Damage and Electricity, then a character like Akihiko was totally cockblocked from being a asset to the fight. It also forced you to sometimes push characters into Support AI routines that they didn't really shine in. Korumaru was awesome for DD, but that was it, he just wasn't a healer, all he had was the evasion/hit rate buff.

                    But yeah, it diminished the purpose of all these physical attacks. Though, to be fair, you'd want to build up Chie to be your Physical damage dealer anyway, that was really her department, even more than Kanji's. And I've found some of those physical skills to be insanely broken (Tifa would not want to bump into Chie in a dark alley). I did one power charge and one of her highest physical skills knocked half a boss' HP off. I got to a point where I wondered why I even bothered to hold on to her ice magic, Teddie gets it way better there and he's a great support character to boot.

                    Oh, and one tiny but nice change: a shorter animation for leveling up a Social Link. Since this is something you will do well over a hundred times in the course of a game, even a few seconds is a nice improvement.
                    Oh, I totally agree there. I practically cringed each time I leveled one up, they had to be so dramatic about it when it was just "OK, you became closer to this friend!" OK, I got, let's can the theatrics and move on to the Dark Hour.

                    --------------------

                    Finishing P4 prompted me to go back and finish "The Answer" which I'm fairly close to doing. P4 re-educated me in the terminology and fusion is much more strict in "The Answer" since you have no Compendium to fall back on if you screw up a fusion.

                    I was actually surprised that even in this bonus chapter you still get "the choice" that comes along in all SMT games. Thought I was getting something a little more linear.

                    All in all, I think they're still some of the best RPGs, even with the changes between them

                    Pity they said they have no plans at present for a Persona 5, but then, they've got Devil Summoner 2, a new DS game and probably SMT IV for PS3 to get out. Devil Summoner 2 looks to close thier run on the PS2 as well.

                    Hoping the re-release Devil Summoner since I sold it like a dumbass. I liked Raidou and the detective noir vibe that game had. I loved that Raidou got connected to Persona 4 through a cast member, on top of the fact they dressed like him.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Persona 4 AKA "Everyone Loves Nanako-chan"

                      Originally posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten View Post
                      Put down your silly PS3 RPGs
                      Wait. Back up.


                      And TGM, you just hit the nail on the head of my video game life. It doesn't help that I get caught in the "must accomplish everything" loop.
                      "And if he left off dreaming about you, where do you suppose you'd be?"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Persona 4 AKA "Everyone Loves Nanako-chan"

                        I think it was more to the end that if a monster was immune to Strike Damage and Electricity, then a character like Akihiko was totally cockblocked from being a asset to the fight.
                        I thought the intended answer to this (any time after you get Mitsuru) was "Then use someone else". (Except for the times you really want to *keep* the character who matches the boss's immune/absorb/reflect element because it's also the element the boss *uses* and that character's uber-resistance is useful in cutting down the damage your party takes overall, since the boss will be dumb enough to keep trying to use it on them anyway.)

                        Of course, the answer to "This guy is weak to the element the boss is spamming" is *also* "Then use someone else", but eventually you have enough people to swap out the people with the bad weakness *and* the ones that have no helpful skills to use.

                        In the meantime, most people have some sort of healing or buff they can use while they're not dying or getting knocked down every single round. For the early bosses you just have to let some people die (or at least, that's the way I handled some of them; there was one in particular that I remember just picking a fire resistant persona with Dia and spamming it on myself and Junpei while he beat a bunch of fire spamming bastards to death. Slowly, but it worked.)

                        How else do you interpret the warps on all boss floors, other than encouraging you to pick your party (and Persona-set) to fit the boss you're about to fight? I mean, the free heal and save point are nice too, but they could have given you that without also giving you party changing/compendium access if they had wanted to. Sure, you have to go in blind the first try at any boss, but then if you lose, you can reload and have a better chosen party for the second.

                        In any case, they could have avoided that problem just by looking at what characters they gave you and avoiding those particular combinations of immunities; there was no need to do something as drastic as eliminating physical damage types. I think the fact that it coincides with not being able to choose *the main character's* physical damage type is probably more significant - since that's the one guy you can't take out of your party, having him screwed out of doing any physical damage is something you only want to do rarely and after thinking about how else you expect the player to win the encounter.
                        Defeated: Maat, Divine Might, Fenrir, Kirin, Cactrot Rapido, Xolotl, Diabolos Prime, Kurrea, 9/10 Dynamis Bosses (missing Tav), Promathia, Proto-Ultima, Proto-Omega, 4 Jailers, Apocalypse Nigh, 6/6 Nyzul Bosses
                        RDM90, PLD90, DRG90, COR90, SCH90, BLU54
                        All Nations Rank 10, ZMs & PMs Complete, AUMs Complete, Captain, Nyzul Floor 100 (5 Weapons, 4 WS), Medal of Altana, WotG Mission 15, 1/3 Addons Complete, 9/9 Abyssea Main Quests, 6/6 Caturae

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                        • #13
                          Re: Persona 4 AKA "Everyone Loves Nanako-chan"

                          I'd do some switch-outs, but on the whole Akihiko's debuffs were by far the most useful in a boss fight. Especially so if you used the defense buffs or reflect magic from your personas and Korumaru's evasion buffs.

                          Fitting them with AGI gear also helped their evasion substantially, so things like Elemental weakness weren't always a major downside. At worst, I'd lose a turn to the member hit with the weakness, but you always had to make sure Arisato (the name of the protagonist, as it turns out) or Aigis (in "The Answer") did not have a weakness a boss could exploit.

                          Otherwise, yeah, I'd go back and switch out characters if suffering the elemental weakness was that much of a detriment to the fight, but I often found Akihiko's debuffs too good to pass up. And since debuffs actually work during boss fights in SMT games, why not capitalize on that advantage?

                          Anyway, I think the encounter initiatives were borked even before you got stuck with longswords and katanas. P3 you just had to catch the enemy unaware to get initiative, in P4, you literally have to attack them from behind and they aggro just because you're nearby and the P3 monsters just aggroed on sight.

                          I do like that the rare mobs don't just hightail it and come at you instead, though.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Persona 4 AKA "Everyone Loves Nanako-chan"

                            I specifically remember one battle in P3 where I just kept myself and akihiko alive, let him wear them down at an incredibly slow pace, and once he killed off one or two of them, raised my other team mate for the win.

                            BBQ, where'd you get that info on the main character's name?

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                            • #15
                              Re: Persona 4 AKA "Everyone Loves Nanako-chan"

                              There was a Persona 3 Manga, his name was Arisato Minato.

                              Here's a link to the site that gave a English Translation.

                              I don't know if it got a US release or not, as I don't really follow Manga.

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