Rumor about SE's next MMO...

[Feba]

Re: Rumor about SE's next MMO...

Minimizing RMT by only supporting consoles is like minimizing the ability for your cat to scratch you by cutting off your legs.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Rumor about SE's next MMO...

Minimizing RMT by only supporting consoles is like minimizing the ability for your cat to scratch you by cutting off your legs.

You know, amputation is a little extreme. You could just clip the cat's claws instead of coming up with some ridiculous metaphor for RMT.

[Balfree]

Re: Rumor about SE's next MMO...

be quiet Feba, your opinions arent valid :p

[Feba]

Re: Rumor about SE's next MMO...

The best way to clip the claws of the RMT cat is to make currency an important, but not vital, part of the game. To this end, I think FFXI has done extremely well.

[Balfree]

Re: Rumor about SE's next MMO...

This is true.

Kinda like... WoW.

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Rumor about SE's next MMO...

The best way to clip the claws of the RMT cat is to make currency an important, but not vital, part of the game. To this end, I think FFXI has done extremely well.

If you mean things like the Treasure Casket gear and Conquest/Imperial Standing/Assault/Campaign, BCNM and NM drops, then I agree. They've made a lot of things gil-free if you just put the effort in toward them. A lot of this stuff - with the exception of particular NMs - are things RMT cannot really exploit for financial advantages over another player.

I feel in regards to RMT that SE just underestimates the rate at which these guys actually level thier characters. Its just not human how they do it, but they'll go from 1-75 on a new BLM, THF or WAR with ease, seeing as RMT is a job and, as such, is free of a time limit to play. They just pass the account to someone they work with and the characters keep going, while the rest of us shut down our games to go to work (well, some of us anyway).

[Mhurron]

Re: Rumor about SE's next MMO...

there will most certainly be less RMT if they did that

No, there probably wouldn't be. There would be less bots, but lets be honest here a lot of 'legitimate' endgame LS's are just as happy to use bots as RMT is.

Professional RMT outfits have real people manning the characters. Real people can play consoles, therefore RMT players would continue in the same manner.

You would see less fishing bots, that's about it.

[Raydeus]

Re: Rumor about SE's next MMO...

I like the Campaign system for aquiring armor and weapons. So for me it would be really nice if they added much more equipment/weapons to the list, specially Rare/Ex versions of existing items.

They probably would never do it, but one can dream eh?



PS > I'd be happy if tradeable currency and trading between players (save for some non-special items) was completely removed from the next game.

[Telera]

Re: Rumor about SE's next MMO...

The way I see it to stop RMT you need to at least:

-Stop people from buying from them (ban cheaters who buy currency)
-Work on game mechanics that make the buying of currency/characters/items less attractive.
-Have a good system to spot and ban RMTers

Agree.

The problem I think isn't with the system to spot/ban, as I think the Task Force has done pretty well since it's inception. I think the problem lies more with the time it takes to get decent money in this game. Especially considering some jobs more or less throw money in the can and burn it.

NPCs don't give you much for the majority of items, and the ones they did recently got knocked in half. Double-edged blade, because the RMT used it as much -if not more than- the legit players. It was good for those with less time to sink into farming, though, so it's a bit of a shame that it had to go. Apparently getting around having to sell to the AH is a bad thing. <insert eye roll>

Things that are worth money on the AH drop in rather poor amounts. The time spent/money gained ratio is not always good. I used to farm a huge range of things, but that still didn't keep me from having to sink days, weeks, into buying good gear for the next few levels. And there lies your real issue. Time. There's some people who just don't want to deal with the larger time-sink that XI tends to cater to, and who will take the easy way out, no matter which system(s) you take the game to. I think Feba's got it about spot on, and since ToAU XI's done this fairly well. If they move more toward making money less of a focal point for gear, etc then we might be onto something so far as controlling RMT.

RMT on LotRO are almost a non-entity because of this. Early on they were around, and obvious, but the system really doesn't lend itself to needing money in any large amounts, and so the few that are still there and in business are catering probably to the same idiots who'd buy it on any game they play. Crafting there doesn't take days to gather the materials, and while the high-level crit gear is fairly pricey, the rest is not. Crafting also doesn't take eons to get leveled. And between my boyfriend and myself, we're now almost totally self-sufficient in the crafting department. Oh, and NPCs actually give you money for drops, meaning you can make it without playing the AH and waiting days. The AH is more for gear and crafting materials, and there more for a big-sale supplement to your income, instead of being the main source thereof. This could be because there's a lot of money sinks though. Gear repairs get pricey at higher levels, fast-travel, etc. I have almost never even used the AH on that game, aside from selling materials I no longer need, and have racked up more than enough money to get by comfortably. No, I can't afford the rare gear and whatnot, but I have pretty damn good kit because I can make it. :p I hate raiding anyway.

[Balfree]

Re: Rumor about SE's next MMO...

Jesus holy freaking christ, batman, all i said is "i wonder if this would hinder down RMT", because in my head i thought less companies would be willing to buy PS3's just for a single game.

Dont have to go all "we has a new RMT discussion on this thread weeee!".

[Susurrus]

Re: Rumor about SE's next MMO...

Jesus holy freaking christ, batman, all i said is "i wonder if this would hinder down RMT", because in my head i thought less companies would be willing to buy PS3's just for a single game.

Dont have to go all "we has a new RMT discussion on this thread weeee!".

You have a lot of power.

Have my babies.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Rumor about SE's next MMO...

Jesus holy freaking christ, batman, all i said is "i wonder if this would hinder down RMT", because in my head i thought less companies would be willing to buy PS3's just for a single game.

Dont have to go all "we has a new RMT discussion on this thread weeee!".

/knocks down Balfree

"Here's our chance for an All-Out RMT Discussion!"

[Balfree]

Re: Rumor about SE's next MMO...

Leave Me Alone ; _ ;

[Kitalrez]

Re: Rumor about SE's next MMO...

Eh, tbh the PS3 and 360 are both capable of far more than what PC's are these days.

And besides that, No PC = No Bots/Hacks.

Your PC is actually less capable than a console? What kind of chip you got in there, a Dorito? *proceeds to hum along to the line: "Wastin' time with all the chatroom yakkers."* It's not that there's no emulator for these systems because they're ridiculously good, its more because they're ridiculously complex at doing basically the same thing as your PC. There are a lot of quad core systems out there which are much more powerful than a 360, but they don't add a few dozen unnecessary steps to handle video or engine information. Triple-core is a non-standard chip design, and ends up needing packets shipped around in a manner that makes it inefficient on any other system.

Remember back to Ruins of Kunark on EQ... the forced upgrading of the PC just to play that expansion did not go over well. In fact, the most popular business model in MMOs is, in fact, to skew to the lowest common denominator with PCs. Its a part of WoW's success.

Can't reach the largest audience on PC if you cater only to the guys with the highest-end PCs. So even then, there are PCs "holding back" other users.

You sure you're thinking Ruins of Kunark? I was a Scars of Vellious EQer, and I'm pretty sure the big change was Shadows of Luclin expansion. Kunark was the first expansion, I don't think they changed very much in hardware requirements. Luclin was a brand new engine design and completely new graphical overlays. It's basically what a lot of us were asking for here. Made the game look incredible compared to what it was before, but man did it require a lot in return. As an aside, you could also toggle all the new enhancements on and off, meaning if your system couldn't handle it, you didn't need to use that texture.

I wonder if they could also hinder down RMT by LIMITING THE GAME TO THE CONSOLES?

Yes you read that right.

You know, Balfree, I'd have more sympathy for you on your pity party wagon if you weren't completely wrong.

I seem to remember it being about $100 per 1m gil back during inflation, so basically 3-4 sales gets you enough to buy a console. An RMT operation is probably doing several hundred sales a week, so it's not really anything major for them to invest in a new console. It wouldn't be a particularly large portion of their overall operation, but it wouldn't be a massive expenditure of resources for them, either. They're probably making enough money in a few days of WoW to fund the new department.

Also, for those of you who are certain consoles are secure, go ahead and search for the articles on modding the current generation of consoles. Look at the dates of those chip-mods or soddering mod articles, compared to the release dates of the console. If I remember correctly, some of them were within 3 months. A chip modification is the same sort of stuff they're teaching in Computer Science and Electronic Engineering departments around the country. It's not some new alien technology, it's the same stuff we use to build everything else, including PCs. If someone has a pretty decent working knowledge of how PC code works, and what kind of architecture it uses and why... it's not rocket science to mod a console in this way. Add a little sodder and wires, so you can reroute certain information through a bare-bones PC structure with your hacks, and you're back in business. Hell, when the original X-box came out, TechTV was running step by step guides on hardware modding the thing on cable television. If you could work a VCR or DVR player, you barely needed any tech knowledge at all.



If you're going to stop RMT, it's usually better to build an economy that doesn't lend itself well to RMT activity. I think the others pretty much covered that earlier. Tying yourself to one console, though, that's not a good way to stop RMT or promote the longevity of your game. Look at how much trouble the PS2 has caused us here. This game could graphically be a much better game, with more storage, bigger areas, instanced areas, etc. We can't be because the PS2 can't handle most of that, however. You would run into the same issues if you tie yourself to consoles that are out now. Sony and Microsoft are going to redo those consoles again in another 5 years, then where will we be? EQ's upgrade only seemed so major because they waited 3 years to do every single upgrade to the game players had been asking for. We got the bazaar zone where we could finally sell items, loads of graphics, more storage, huge zones, pretty much everything we'd asked for. If they'd spread that out more, releasing a little at a time, they would have lost low end users more slowly, and it wouldn't have felt like a giant expansion abortion.

[Callisto]

Re: Rumor about SE's next MMO...

See thats where I disagree, I DO hope it is another Final Fantasy MMO!

I really don't. I only played FFXI out of being a FF fanboy, I personally do not like MMOs on the whole. When FFXI runs its course I kinda look forward to getting my shit together, sticking to console games for a while, and maybe getting back into shape, lol.
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You would run into the same issues if you tie yourself to consoles that are out now. Sony and Microsoft are going to redo those consoles again in another 5 years, then where will we be?

This is actually a good point, FFXI is on it's 7th year. 6 years from now I'm sure things will have advanced enough that someone would bitch about 'PS3 limitations' on a cross-platform MMO, lol.