Peta has a game for you!

[Szkol]

Re: Peta has a game for you!

@ the response about B12 vitamin- vegatarians might be able to rationalize taking supplements-

Where does that leave the vegans who won't have anything to do with any animal derivative? Animals are THE source for B12, for long-chain proteins...

And yeah, maybe they do have some little white powder they can add to the soil that makes veggies rich in B12, but I guarantee that at the end of the day the little white powder came from an animal.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Peta has a game for you!

Why are we fighting over this so much? I haven't seen any vegetarians/vegans telling anyone else that they're bad people for eating meat. Armando has said he doesn't begrudge anyone else their right to eat meat and Feba has said he isn't currently on a vegan diet. All I've seen are meat eaters telling vegetarians that they are effectually stupid. I know there are some vegetarians (PeTA) that will tell you what a horrible person you are for eating beef, but they aren't on here. Lets cool it with the over the top dramatics. If you'd like to have a discussion about it, do so, but lets all keep our heads.

No one has said that vegetarians are stupid, but telling us that eating meat is needless is. Smoking is needless. Drinking alcohol is needless. Eating is not. Guess what? We are all individuals and because of that we all make different choices. I choose to take my shower in the morning but my son takes his before bedtime. We both accomplish the same task, personal hygiene, but in different manners. We all consme food. I choose to eat meat, some people do not but we all get our daily intake of nutrition and thats all that matters. It seems most of us are quite content to see the point this way but some are not.

Oh and fyi, if you believe that vegetables/fruits are more "natural" than meat think again. They have been genetically manipulated and cloned for years. Some of my family are farmers (big surprise since I live in the Midwest lol) and have been getting subsidies for raising genetically enhanced crops for decades. Oh and let's not forget the chemicals that are put on the seeds/crops too. Yes there are organics but 99% of us eat genetically manipulated chemically enhanced vegetables/fruits, just like my meat.

[Gyotsha]

Re: Peta has a game for you!

I'd like to know what world you live in that it's 'trouble' to find supplements. Apart from reading the boxes next time you're in a pharmacy, I have to imagine you could find all sorts of info in ten minutes of googling.

Hmm, yes, you've got me there. It's not that hard to find these things, but not everyone wants to take supplements to replace the actual food. For people who don't like meat it's all fine and dandy, but people who don't mind meat really have no reason to switch over.

This assumes that meat is ALWAYS good. It's not. I saw some mild health benefits when I was a vegan, despite the fact that my diet was still generally pretty poor. Meat has its downsides.

It's true that not all meat is good. Enough red meat will cause heart problems. Processed meat at fast food places have little to no nutritional value. People just need to be more educated in nutrition and be able to eat these things in moderation so as not to cause any health problems. Some meat is always good though and has nothing but benefits, such as chicken, when it's prepared properly. None of that deep fried crap. Chicken stir-fry = good.

Whether a vegetarian or a meat eater, both can live a healthy life with the right diet.

No, it's not. As I said earlier, there are plenty of problems in addition to the ethical. There are just as valid reasons to forsake meat economically and environmentally, as well as ethics that ONLY concern human well being. The animal suffering is just the icing on the cake.

People have different views on this. One view is that if we stop slaughtering cows, their farts will kill the ozone layer and we'd all die thanks to global warming. Cows will be the cause of the next ice age if we allow them to live!

And I'd really like to know what purpose there would be to raise, torture, and slaughter livestock in a world where people do not use animal products. This whole "You can't stop it, so you might as well just do it" idea is just as flawed as the 'your vote doesn't count' idea.

To feed the population. As much as I'd prefer the hunting for food method, there are just too many people. If this system wasn't in place, quite a few animals would probably go extinct due to our large population. While I don't exactly like the idea of animals being raised in such conditions just to be killed, it's the best we have for the meat hungry population. I suppose we could all switch to being vegetarians, but like I said earlier: people aren't going to change their views on their diet, so these slaughter houses will continue to exist.


And just to get this straight, I respect anyone's choice if they choose to not eat meat. I'm just having fun debating and expressing my views on these matters! I am in no way trying to offend anyone or tell them how to live their life!

[Feba]

Re: Peta has a game for you!

Eating is not.

Nobody has argued that eating is needless. We are saying that eating does not require meat. I've explained this three times now, TGM, I'm not really sure how much clearer I could be.

Oh and fyi, if you believe that vegetables/fruits are more "natural" than meat think again.

Yep, which is the point on supplements and modified food-- simply, nobody really cares anymore. For all the bitching over GE and Organic crops, the 'organic' labels don't really mean what you think they mean a lot of the time. And even the people who buy THEIR vegetables organic are almost certainly getting an unnatural crop when they have dinner anywhere else. The amount of people that even truly and knowledgeably attempt to eat 'natural' as often as possible is probably like .5%; the amount of people that NEVER eat anything that's been pumped up on chemicals is huge amounts under that. Being unnatural doesn't make things bad.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Peta has a game for you!

Why are we fighting over this so much? I haven't seen any vegetarians/vegans telling anyone else that they're bad people for eating meat. Armando has said he doesn't begrudge anyone else their right to eat meat and Feba has said he isn't currently on a vegan diet. All I've seen are meat eaters telling vegetarians that they are effectually stupid. I know there are some vegetarians (PeTA) that will tell you what a horrible person you are for eating beef, but they aren't on here. Lets cool it with the over the top dramatics. If you'd like to have a discussion about it, do so, but lets all keep our heads.

No one took issue with Armando here, it was a member that always has to be the Devil's Advocate and thinks he knows better than anyone. I don't think I have to name names, but its a four-letter one.

[Gyotsha]

Re: Peta has a game for you!

No one took issue with Armando here, it was a member that always has to be the Devil's Advocate and thinks he knows better than anyone. I don't think I have to name names, but its a four-letter one.

Now I wonder who that could be lol

[Feba]

Re: Peta has a game for you!

One view is that if we stop slaughtering cows, their farts will kill the ozone layer and we'd all die thanks to global warming.

I love the way you pervert logic. It's actually entertaining to watch.

But for those who take this seriously (and yes, sadly I have met some) the problem has never been the slaughtering, it's always been the raising. If you're not producing herds of cattle, their waste products never come into the picture.

To feed the population. As much as I'd prefer the hunting for food method, there are just too many people. If this system wasn't in place, quite a few animals would probably go extinct due to our large population. While I don't exactly like the idea of animals being raised in such conditions just to be killed, it's the best we have for the meat hungry population. I suppose we could all switch to being vegetarians, but like I said earlier: people aren't going to change their views on their diet, so these slaughter houses will continue to exist.

1- Again, a world without animal products. That includes meat.
1b- Animals have already gone extinct with this system; and endangered as well. Commercial fishing is still causing this problem in some places, I believe.
2- The idea that we need to torture animals in order to provide food is absurd and obscene. I'm sure you're not going to have to pay much more for a burger in order for a cow to be housed and killed with a sliver of humanity
3- Really, after awhile of not eating meat, you lose your taste for it. When I started eating meat again, it was pretty repulsive for some number of weeks. Many people who are raised without meat simply do not care for it. The idea that the population is aching for meat and demands it is just not true. Look at... well, most of the rest of the world, really. Mostly very light on meat, if there's any at all.
3b- That something exists is no reason to contribute to it. That same logic could be used to say "Well, there are going to be pedophiles anyway, so why can't I rape children?". Didn't your mother ever ask you about your friends jumping off a bridge?

[Gyotsha]

Re: Peta has a game for you!

I love the way you pervert logic. It's actually entertaining to watch.

I do try my best lol

1- Again, a world without animal products. That includes meat.
1b- Animals have already gone extinct with this system; and endangered as well. Commercial fishing is still causing this problem in some places, I believe.
2- The idea that we need to torture animals in order to provide food is absurd and obscene. I'm sure you're not going to have to pay much more for a burger in order for a cow to be housed and killed with a sliver of humanity
3- Really, after awhile of not eating meat, you lose your taste for it. When I started eating meat again, it was pretty repulsive for some number of weeks. Many people who are raised without meat simply do not care for it. The idea that the population is aching for meat and demands it is just not true. Look at... well, most of the rest of the world, really. Mostly very light on meat, if there's any at all.
3b- That something exists is no reason to contribute to it. That same logic could be used to say "Well, there are going to be pedophiles anyway, so why can't I rape children?". Didn't your mother ever ask you about your friends jumping off a bridge?

Now if those fish were raised on a fish farm for the purpose of producing food, there wouldn't be as many problems, environmentally that is. PETA would have a field day with it though.

2- Sadly, raising animals just to be slaughtered is the best method we have. At least there are laws that make it more comfortable for them though. Just like how California (I believe) passed a law that will ensure that chickens are more comfortable before they die. At the cost of marriage rights for gay people apparently.

3- Not gonna argue that that's why most of the world is healthier than Americans.

3b- Not everyone contributes to it. They just tolerate it because it supplies them with food and it doesn't affect their lives. Most people just completely ignore the fact that animals are being raised in horrible conditions and then slaughtered. If everyone who ate meat torchered and slaughtered animals, then that logic would be correct, but that's not that case. No one has the power to take down these businesses, so people just live with it. It's not breaking any laws like child rape would be.

[Feba]

Re: Peta has a game for you!

2- Yes. However, raising them to be slaughtered does not require torturous conditions. Nor does something being the best method to achieve an end mean that that end is necessary.
2b- The California law was just to make sure that chickens would have enough room to stand up, turn around, and so on. The cages that they'd been kept in were incredibly small, and that is unfortunately the norm.
3b- Yes, they do. Even if you steal all your meat, you're providing a place for those actions to turn a profit for someone. Ignoring the problem and not contributing to it are very, very different things. Again, it's like the 'your vote doesn't matter' thing; even if you only make a marginal difference, even if the wake of your action takes decades longer than you will live to show, even if the movement requires far more than one person, that does not make your actions irrelevant.
3c- Did you just imply that child rape would be ok if there weren't laws against it?

[Gyotsha]

Re: Peta has a game for you!

Did you just imply that child rape would be ok if there weren't laws against it?

If I did, not intentionally lol I'm tired. The point is that there is no law against animal slaughter.

I'm done for the night. I leave you with this video:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmK0bZl4ILM]YouTube - Arrogant Worms - Carrot Juice is Murder[/ame]

[Balfree]

Re: Peta has a game for you!

A thought occurred to me! Zing!

Isn't cow manure used to fertilize the soil for vegetables?

Isn't cow manure an animal by-product?

Discuss!

/leaves

(I know poop isn't really a by-product! Please don't report my post or quote me with well-educated counter-responses!)

[Ziero]

Re: Peta has a game for you!

I probably should have read this topic before I ate breakfast

...cause now I'm craving bacon

[Kailea]

Re: Peta has a game for you!

Ok. You've just eliminated somewhere around %100 of the average American's diet. Congratulations!

Again, if you seriously believe that eating almost all meat produced nowadays is more 'natural' than eating vegetables with vitamins added, you really need a reality check..

oh I know meat is not "natural" it has alot of crap in it.... some things that should not really be there -.-

but what I meant was most vegetation is not fortified like that normally, guess I should have used the word normal and not natural ;p

[Mhurron]

Re: Peta has a game for you!

I probably should have read this topic before I ate breakfast

...cause now I'm craving bacon

Thats true, you shouldn't.

Especially since a good, high quality sausage is better.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Peta has a game for you!

Really, after awhile of not eating meat, you lose your taste for it. When I started eating meat again, it was pretty repulsive for some number of weeks. Many people who are raised without meat simply do not care for it. The idea that the population is aching for meat and demands it is just not true. Look at... well, most of the rest of the world, really. Mostly very light on meat, if there's any at all

What planet are you from. Most nations at minimum fish and raise chickens for eating thier meat and eggs. Yes, there are circles that don't touch cows, because of religious beliefs. That or they just haven't had the need to kill one due to other food sources being more abundant.

Some nations go for different kinds of meat we wouldn't commonly touch here in America. We don't usually go for sheep meat, eating deer meat is actually not that common. Some eat parts of the animal's body we would never even touch.

But plenty of other cultures worldwide can and do eat meat. Maybe in moderation and not as excessively as we do, though.

But as Balfree said earlier, if we only did what was needed, life wouldn't be terribly interesting. If I followed my allergy diet too literally, I'd be missing out on the essential vitamins and nutrients that come from vegetables and dairy products. And if I went without fish and fish oils, I'd really be in a terrible state. Not even taking supplements alone covers the spread of my needs, they must come from food as well.

So before you go telling us about what everyone else does, remember that everyone reacts differently to different things. I didn't even know I had milk allergies til I had tests done, but its still sometimes neccessary for me to have milk. And I require a large amount of seretonin to be produced to get through the day - not all of that can come from my treatments and dietary supplements - it only goes so far.

If you want to try to cut anything out of your diet, try cutting out gluten. That's a bitch and a half - since wheat is in everything. I can cut out soda, that's no problem, but gluten is in sauces and juices it doesn't need to be in. Its in bread, noodles, some corn products and much, much more.

Gluten is the biggest threat to my body, more than any other and you're telling me I can go without meat, too. I have no meat allergies. If I cut out corn, tomato, noodles, bread, broccoli and meat, I may as well just live with an IV tap.

I'll pass, thanks. Avoiding soda and noodles - that's the only easy part about my diet.