Blu Ray coming to the 360

[Feba]

Re: Blu Ray coming to the 360

For that matter, look at Shenmue, back on the Dreamcast; it still looks incredibly good compared to modern games.

At this point, what makes a game look good is going to be far less the console it's on, and very much the quality of the art direction. The PS3's graphics, as it is today, are not significantly better than the 360. While this might change in a few years, the 360 is also two or three years old already; and will probably be replaced by a newer Xbox by the time that happens.

The PS3's BR drive hasn't significantly helped it. Yes, it can store more content, but from everything I've seen developers are wasting it (for example, that thing where MGS4 went with uncompressed audio, and nixed game content; instead of using lossless audio or something). GTA4, despite how overwhelmingly huge it is, fits just as well on a 360 as on PS3. If there ever were a situation where a developer needed all that space (for example, prerendered HD cutscenes), they could easily split it amongst multiple DVDs.

The PS3 has it's advantages over the 360, but graphics are really not one of them. Staying power, maybe, graphics in five years, maybe, but not today.

[Malacite]

Re: Blu Ray coming to the 360

At this point, what makes a game look good is going to be far less the console it's on, and very much the quality of the art direction.

Going to have disagree with you immensely there. It's both, not just one or the other. PS3 is capable of some truly amazing stuff, but most developers either don't know how to make full use of the technology, or are too cheap/lazy to do so.

[Pai Pai Master]

Re: Blu Ray coming to the 360

It's a tough argument about storage capacity because before Grand Theft Auto IV, there weren't really any developers finding a problem with the storage limitation on the 360, or at least being vocal about it. Rockstar made it very clear what their problems with both platforms were, and they made it very clear that Microsoft needs to solve their storage issue before the end of the generation.

I met with a bunch of the senior fellows from [Microsoft].

I said, that’s kind of complicated…. The upshot of the technical challenges we’ve experienced on either the 360 or on the PS3 is [that] both companies stepped up to the plate and have supported us in a way that was beyond even my greedy expectations. They’ve been amazing. I think that the 360 is going to have to get ’round this issue we’re talking about. I can think of various ways they can do it.

Hopefully, they’re going to adopt one of those in the next year or so, because it’s going to become more of an issue. If we’re filling up the disc right now, where are we going? It’s not like our games are going to get any smaller. I think that issue’s on the table with a bunch of games right now. I’m sure they’ll come through with an intelligent solution.

360 devs have clearly proven that there can be games just as high quality as any other using just the DVD format. GTA4 however, is one of the biggest games of all time. What will the situation be when something comes along, GTA5 or otherwise, to trump it in size and scale? What if the 360-exclusive DLC wasn't 360-exclusive, and Rockstar had originally planned to include it in the original game?

On one end adopting Blu-ray for gameplay purposes would be a great solution; on the other end it'd be the worst possible solution they could make. Microsoft has a history of listening to their developers about what's best (Gears of War's Cliffy B. being the main reason the 360 ended up with 512MB of RAM, for example) so as Houser says, they'll probably make the best decision when the time comes.

[Feba]

Re: Blu Ray coming to the 360

It's both, not just one or the other.

Again, not at this point.

Look at a late PS2 game, and compare it to an early 360 game, or even PS3. The PS2 game is still going to look very good, despite superior technology, because we're reaching the point of diminishing returns.

Look at how far we've come -- the first games, white squares or vectors on a black background. Then we got more colorful squares, then eventually we got into things where you could start to define the character instead of just saying "this white dot". Then we got clearer and better looking characters, up to things that eventually start to look more like drawings than sprites (look at 2D PSX games for an example of what I'm talking about; specifically fighters). We kinda started over again with very rough 3D images (think Star Fox), and gradually got better through PSX, until we started getting 3D images that look very smooth, and create great looking virtual worlds (even as early as FFXI and Shenmue can show this; although there have been better ones lately I just can't think of)

Right now, we're at the point where it's less a matter of getting better defined, better looking sprites, and more to the point where we're trying to make those sprites look like cartoons; or in 3D, more like trying to get those avatars to look like real people. That's a pretty big leap, and it's not like going from an SNES to a PSX for 2D games is going to give you a giant improvement.

PS3 is capable of some truly amazing stuff,

Prove it.

most developers either don't know how to make full use of the technology, or are too cheap/lazy to do so.

Then what the hell is the point of having it? If you have technology in a console that the game developers aren't taking advantage of, and the company that makes the console is locking out home developers from using the entire thing, what's the point of paying for it? You don't buy a house with five bedrooms if you're not going to use them for something, why would you buy a console that has more power than anyone is taking advantage of?

[Malacite]

Re: Blu Ray coming to the 360

Originally Posted by Malacite View Post
PS3 is capable of some truly amazing stuff,
Prove it.

Originally Posted by Malacite View Post
most developers either don't know how to make full use of the technology, or are too cheap/lazy to do so.
Then what the hell is the point of having it? If you have technology in a console that the game developers aren't taking advantage of, and the company that makes the console is locking out home developers from using the entire thing, what's the point of paying for it? You don't buy a house with five bedrooms if you're not going to use them for something, why would you buy a console that has more power than anyone is taking advantage of?

Just wait until MGS4 and Resistance 2 come out. Even then, like PS2 we're not going to see what PS3 can really do for a few more years. That's just how Sony rolls. They've proven it twice over now with PS1 and PS2, don't see why it won't happen again with PS3.


You missed my point entirely Feba, or chose to ignore it;

You can still make a great game with shitty tools (like FF1 or The Legend of Zelda), and likewise you can make a shitty game with amazing tools (Lair @_@; even though I kinda liked it) it's all in the hands of the developers. As Pai Pai has pointed out before, Insomniac has been the first company so far to even begin to tap into what PS3 can do, so just sit tight and wait before passing any judgments because it's still far too early into the console's life cycle.

The same goes for Wii and 360 btw, though maybe not so much Wii... you can only push a gimmick with crappy visuals so far. Mario Kart Wii for example is pretty fun, but the control layout's annoying (why can't I set B to gas? Holding down 2 really kills my hand after a while... Why is Nintendo so damned anal about control set ups with some of their games?) and well, quite frankly it looks marginally better than the N64 game did. Which is mind boggling given how utterly beautiful Twilight Princess, Prime 3 and Galaxy were.

[Feba]

Re: Blu Ray coming to the 360

Just wait until MGS4 and Resistance 2 come out.

Your point? They're good looking, yes, but it's not like they're a huge improvement over anything the 360 has to offer.

Even then, like PS2 we're not going to see what PS3 can really do for a few more years.

Hi, welcome to every console ever. As developers learn to squeeze more out of the hardware, games look better. Simple as that.

That doesn't mean it's got some huge advantage if you go to the store to buy one today.

You missed my point entirely Feba, or chose to ignore it;

No, your point is irrelevant. We aren't dealing with "shitty tools" and "amazing tools", we're talking about "Good tools" and "slightly higher quality but still pretty much the same tools".

[Pai Pai Master]

Re: Blu Ray coming to the 360

Your point? They're good looking, yes, but it's not like they're a huge improvement over anything the 360 has to offer.

2 full campaigns, 8-player co-op and 60-player lag-free online is a huge improvement. I couldn't say whether that's because of PS3 or because of Insomniac, though. They are talented.

[Feba]

Re: Blu Ray coming to the 360

Anyone who can say "lag free" and "online" in the same sentence is either talking about science fiction, or is nothing but a damned dirty liar. There is no such thing.

[Pai Pai Master]

Re: Blu Ray coming to the 360

RESISTANCE is the only game I would ever use the phrase "lag-free" to describe. It must be the work of God or Cthulu or something. Take 40 people, stick 'em in one of the caves in Nottingham and give them all Hedgehog Grenades; it's truly a thing of beauty. Runs like you're playing offline.

[Feba]

Re: Blu Ray coming to the 360

Running smoothly != not lagging.

[Pai Pai Master]

Re: Blu Ray coming to the 360

I can't win this argument since you haven't played it, but I stand by my point. RESISTANCE online is a lag-free experience.

[Kailea]

Re: Blu Ray coming to the 360

I can't win this argument since you haven't played it, but I stand by my point. RESISTANCE online is a lag-free experience.

I would like to call BS on that as well -.- there is not such thing as lag free

[Feba]

Re: Blu Ray coming to the 360

I can't win this argument since you haven't played it,

It has nothing to do with playing the game or not.

Unless they have found a way around the laws of physics, there is no such thing as lag free online play.

[Icemage]

Re: Blu Ray coming to the 360

I can't win this argument since you haven't played it, but I stand by my point. RESISTANCE online is a lag-free experience.

Doubters can say what they like. The only lag you'll get from Resistance: Fall of Man online is your own connection. The servers handle the traffic smooth as silk, and the game doesn't have issues with 40 players onscreen either.


Icemage

[Malacite]

Re: Blu Ray coming to the 360

What Ice and Pai said.

Even on my PS3 (which for some reason has a TERRIBLE Internet connection. I'm going to nag futureshop about that ASAP) it still ran relatively lag-free. People were kinda zipping around at warp speed at times, but now that i know it's not my router (confirmed by using my DS) I can lay the blame squarely on my 60 GB.

Ugh I really don't want to lose the PS1 and 2 compatibility if it comes down to replacing the unit >< (not to mention all my saves...)


Long Live the Hedgehog Grenade.