What do you want to see for the PS3, 360, and Wii?

[tdh]

Re: What do you want to see for the PS3, 360, and Wii?

Trust me, HD-DVD is not a selling point on the 360, and there is no "push" from Microsoft's end. Microsoft doesn't give a crap about Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. They're trying to keep the two formats in a stalemate because they're more interested in making digital distribution the format of choice, and so they're doing just enough to maintain customer confusion on which format to choose. If Microsoft really cared about HD-DVD, they would have done a lot more to support it. It's a war to prevent Sony from dominating the living room in both movies and video games.

Selling point for getting the console into customer's homes, maybe not. But Microsoft is one of the backers for HD DVD, mainly because of how it handles DRM, and has been a backer for about 2 years now. How else to make sure your investment and your future plans pan out than trying to bundle it in with your console, or use your console for exposure?

I won't deny that Microsoft doesn't have the kind of stake in the HD DVD/BD format war that Sony does, but they are very much in it. PS3 having the BD player in it is huge for Sony, but giving their track record can you blame them? PS2 was a great way to get a DVD player in the living rooms many families. It worked great, and a lot of people had a PS2 for quite some time before they bought a stand alone player. Why couldn't that same strategy work for BD? We won't officially know until Dec 13, but the numbers seem to suggest it's starting to work.

Personally I have had two Mothers call in and say that the purchase of the PS3 was one of the best purchases they'd made in a very long time. One told me her kids love it, for obvious reasons. Her husband loved the BD movies, and since her TV's so huge she uses the web browser to display how-tos on her favorite sites and could see them from other rooms that didn't require moving a PC or getting a laptop. The other Mother expressed similar usage, but this is exactly what Microsoft and Sony wanted from the casual consumer. Using their box as a media hub for the family. Games. Movies. Music. DLC. Internet. As a gamers we only really care about the games - we have PCs, MP3 players, BitTorrent, high speed IntarWebz. But the hardcore gamers don't run the market. So tossing in the BD player, or HD DVD player, with a web browser, or to rip and play your own music is tossed in to sweeten the deal for Moms and Dads.

[Pai Pai Master]

Re: What do you want to see for the PS3, 360, and Wii?

BD in PS3 isn't the same as DVD in PS2 because BD won't as easily become a replacement for the current format. Many people, myself included, see the format as an HD-alternative to DVD, not a future replacement. Whether that means it will or won't reach the same install base as DVD is yet to be seen, but Sony certainly wants to push it the same way they did with DVD.

[tdh]

Re: What do you want to see for the PS3, 360, and Wii?

BD in PS3 isn't the same as DVD in PS2 because BD won't as easily become a replacement for the current format. Many people, myself included, see the format as an HD-alternative to DVD, not a future replacement. Whether that means it will or won't reach the same install base as DVD is yet to be seen, but Sony certainly wants to push it the same way they did with DVD.

I agree that the ratio isn't 1:1 like it was with DVD, but I think the parallels aren't that far away.

Now my understanding may be different than the actual goal, but I thought the goal was for HD DVD or BD was to completely move VHS out of the mix and become the dominant option over DVDs. Especially with the full push to HD but 2009? (Is that what they've 'agreed' upon this week? Or is it 2011?) Maybe not to make DVDs completely obsolete, but to replace them. So I guess my interpretation may not be accurate.

[jwalton]

Re: What do you want to see for the PS3, 360, and Wii?

The movie industry wants to resell all their movies to consumers again like they did with the transition from VHS to DVD, but consumers aren't buying. The leap isn't big enough to warrant such a transition. The average person still has no idea what Blu-Ray or HD-DVD is, and most that do don't even care. The quality difference is very apparent to me, don't get me wrong... but my regular DVDs still get the job done. After all, I doubt most folks have 60" HDTVs complimented by a $2000 7.1 home theater speaker system, and so all this crap about uncompressed audio and incredibly detailed visuals is just fluff.

DVD had already begun to establish itself in the market before the PlayStation 2, and it was very obvious to any consumer how much better it was than VHS. The fact that the PS2 cost only $299, making it on par or cheaper than most DVD players on the market as well as doubling as a game machine aided its success a great deal. PS3 is an entirely different story, and so you can't really compare the situations.

Edit: Let's put it this way. Sony and Toshiba start bragging when they sell 100-200K copies of some big title movie on HD formats. The Matrix on DVD broke 1.5 million sales in just a week back in 1999. Sony and Toshiba should have just agreed to a unified format instead of being a bunch of greedy fools.

[tdh]

Re: What do you want to see for the PS3, 360, and Wii?

DVD had already begun to establish itself in the market before the PlayStation 2, and it was very obvious to any consumer how much better it was than VHS. The fact that the PS2 cost only $299, making it on par or cheaper than most DVD players on the market as well as doubling as a game machine aided its success a great deal. PS3 is an entirely different story, and so you can't really compare the situations.

And that's exactly why I drew the parallel.

When the PS3 came out, even at $500 or $600 it was cheaper than a lot of BD players as I recall. There were players ranging between $800~1200 when the PS3 could be half the price. Looking right now, Bestbuy.com is talking about a $100 price drop on some BD players, but they still range from $399 to $999.

Coupled with the fact that the last time I heard, PS3 actually had a very good BD player, which was not the case in the PS2 era. The PS2 actually had a pretty crappy DVD player but it did the trick. So not $299, but still less expensive than a stand alone in a lot of cases today after price cuts on PS3 and BD players.

[Malacite]

Re: What do you want to see for the PS3, 360, and Wii?

ah so that's why you said 6 (I knew full well there was 8 total)

[Pai Pai Master]

Re: What do you want to see for the PS3, 360, and Wii?

I certainly think that's their goal; to replace DVD. I don't think it'll happen. All the parallels are intact, except for the fact that BD and HD-DVD are not fast on their way to becoming the single mainstream format like DVD was at the time of the PS2's launch. That's not to say the PS3 hasn't contributed to the success of BD. It certainly has. The format has established its foothold and in due time I have no doubt that it will be considered the "victor" in the format war, but that's about all it will likely gain; a place in the industry as the single HD-alternative format to DVD, not the replacement.

Sales will increase exponentially over the next few years, but I doubt it'll reach DVD-level sales before digital distribution becomes the next mainstream format. Whether or not that'll be enough for full-HD movie content is yet to be seen, in which case BD certainly has a long future ahead of itself as a HD format.

[jwalton]

Re: What do you want to see for the PS3, 360, and Wii?

And that's exactly why I drew the parallel. When the PS3 came out, even at $500 or $600 it was cheaper than a lot of BD players as I recall.

Pai Pai Master already mentioned it, but just to emphasize the point, the parallel doesn't quite fit. Blu-Ray isn't an established format like DVD was. DVD was already chosen by consumers to be the successor to VHS years before the PS2 launched. When the PS2 debuted, there were thousands of DVD titles to choose from on store shelves. You did not have even close to the same level of choice when the PS3 debuted, and still don't.

[Feba]

Re: What do you want to see for the PS3, 360, and Wii?

does Sony really need another lawsuit on their hands, this time from Microsoft and Nintendo?

Not going to happen. People have been emulating games for years on PCs, if anyone was going to get sued it would be Microsoft-- but there is absolutely no grounds to sue the companies in this case. It would be like suing ford because someone used their ford sedan to smuggle drugs.

Sure you were.

Let me spell that out in full for you:

I don't care if I have to subscribe to Nintendo Power TO GET DEMO DISCS LIKE PLENTY OF OTHER MAGAZINES HAVE WITH THEM, if I can just download them, or whatEVER ELSE I MIGHT HAVE TO DO.


I figured that would be obvious. Apparently I put too much faith in you people.

Half of that list are exclusives,

Which again are all that matter. When I go to buy a console, I look at what it can do for me that other consoles can't. Not what it can do. Of which, only Rachet and Clank would likely have wide appeal. Even if the other games did have wide appeal, though, they do not justify a $600 console to most people. And lern2red please, I quite clearly said that it doesn't have MANY good games, not "no"-- leaving out important details makes you look like the idiot, not the person you're talking to.

Of course still sitting on the couch to play these games defeats the original reason for the controller scheme,

Not at all. The Wii is built to be FUN. You can still have tons of fun playing it, even sitting down.

At least where I am, it's about $90 per additional player since you need to buy a Wii Mote, Nunchuck and Classic Controller. Then there's that stupid new zapper they made, as well as the steering wheel that will ship with Mario Kart... Wii points cards, sleeves for your wii mote.. do I really need to continue?

First of all, most multiplayer games I've seen ONLY need the Wiimote. I haven't seen any that need a classic controller, except maybe virtual console games. You don't NEED the Zapper for ANYTHING, and the Steering wheel is again just for fun.

Wii points cards are only needed for Wii shop stuff, which isn't needed, and again a lot of people want the prices lowered on, and Nintendo ships out Wii Remote Jackets for FREE, so you have absolutely no right to bitch there.

You are VERY much overestimating the cost of multiplayer on the Wii-- not to mention the intention is quite clearly that everyone would have their own Wii and controllers, and would bring it to play with their friends. That is why the Wiimote has the ability to store and carry Miis, and why games can load Miis from controllers.

Especially with the full push to HD but 2009?

Are you talking about TV stations switching to digital broadcast? That should be happening in 2009, my local cable cartel is already airing commercials going "HEY GUYS, YOUR TVs AREN'T GONNA WORK ANYMORE... UNLESS YOU SWITCH TO CABLE!", preying on the weak and such. This isn't a switch to HD though, there's no reason why old TVs won't still work as long as they have a converter box to decode the digital signal into something that will work on them.


And as to the whole next-Gen DVD thing, I have to agree with Pai Pai. Right now, the only people that really need to be buying into HD DVD and BluRay are people that work for companies that have something to gain from it, and people that have insanely expensive home theatre setups already-- the kind of expensive where $600 for a PS3 or 360+HDDVD player is insignificant. DVD had clear and reaching benefits over VHS for everyone, BluRay and HDDVD can't say that.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: What do you want to see for the PS3, 360, and Wii?

Let me spell that out in full for you:

I don't care if I have to subscribe to Nintendo Power TO GET DEMO DISCS LIKE PLENTY OF OTHER MAGAZINES HAVE WITH THEM, if I can just download them, or whatEVER ELSE I MIGHT HAVE TO DO.


I figured that would be obvious. Apparently I put too much faith in you people.

Let me do the same: we're getting downloadable demos.

That's what I originally said, then you said specifically "demo discs," to which I responded that you don't care how you get your demos, to which you are responding the same?

According to the above summary of our conversation, I would deduce there is a lack of communication between us.

As for the rest of your post, however, I agree.

[Feba]

Re: What do you want to see for the PS3, 360, and Wii?

I understood the bit about downloadable demos.

You then went on to act as if my talking about Nintendo Power subscriptions was a way to bribe Nintendo, and nothing that would actually serve a purpose.

In short, if you think there's a communication problem, it would be a better idea to stop acting like a prick than try to blame it on other people.

[Malacite]

Re: What do you want to see for the PS3, 360, and Wii?

I still say if you want a PS3 bad enough, suck it up and save up. I did.

[tdh]

Re: What do you want to see for the PS3, 360, and Wii?

Which again are all that matter. When I go to buy a console, I look at what it can do for me that other consoles can't. Not what it can do. Of which, only Rachet and Clank would likely have wide appeal. Even if the other games did have wide appeal, though, they do not justify a $600 console to most people. And lern2red please, I quite clearly said that it doesn't have MANY good games, not "no"-- leaving out important details makes you look like the idiot, not the person you're talking to.

Feba's day is now complete. He found a reason to use his moronic "learn to read." Next time, swallow your words before you try to put them in someone else's mouth.

What I said:

I will not deny that exclusives help sell a console, but that's not the only thing. And to continue the misinformed opinions of "has no games" or "has no good games" should then apply to our current media favorite, the X360, as well.

At no point in that statement did I say that YOU, Mr. Learn-to-read, said there were no games. Feel self important some place else please.

As for your comment about why YOU buy consoles, that's fine. Nobody can begrudge you that, or even think to tell you how to spend your dollars and cents. But for the casual gamer this is most likely not a factor. So when they go some place to make a purchase of a current game console the game line up is a poor excuse to not consider a PS3. So, like I actually said, if you want to say the PS3 isn't worth buying because it doesn't have any/many quality games, the exact same excuse applies to the X360.

[Feba]

Re: What do you want to see for the PS3, 360, and Wii?

I still say if you want a PS3 bad enough, suck it up and save up. I did.

The problem is, there are a lot of people out there that want a PS3. They just don't want a PS3 that's twice as much as they've ever spent on a console before.

swallow your words before you try to put them in someone else's mouth.

While it was quite clearly talking to me, and aimed at myself, the same as the rest of your post. Unless you intend to show me someone else you were talking to, who had said there were no good games for PS3, or tell us about the voices, my point stands.

But for the casual gamer this is most likely not a factor.

Yes, it very much is. No sane person looks at something they are about to buy and thinks "What can everything, or most everything, on the market do?", they think "What can this do that makes it better?". When you go to buy a car, you don't look for cars that have air conditioning, seatbelts; you look for which one has the highest MPG, or which one has the most trunk space, or one with a beast of an engine. You also take price into the equation. If two cars are very similar, but one comes with a better stereo, you're probably going to go for the one with a better stereo. You look at what is DIFFERENT or BETTER about a product, not what it does overall.

In this situation, yes, the PS3 might have plenty of cross platform titles, but only someone that just wants to play them would buy the PS3-- but the Xbox 360 already has it beat in price, plus the 360 has more hits, and just plain more users which puts it in a better position than the PS3. The people that are looking at cross platform titles in their search for a console are far more likely to go to 360 than PS3, unless there is something about 360 that repulses them (RROD, Microsoft, etc.), or something about PS3 that draws them (Exclusives, past PlayStation consoles, BluRay, etc.) to choose that.

Now, I'm not saying PS3 is unbuyable-- there are plenty of good reasons to get a PS3, and that's only going to get better with time. Just that, for most people, the PS3 is not the best console to buy right now, and it needs to work on a few things (mainly price, exclusives, and reputation) before it is.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: What do you want to see for the PS3, 360, and Wii?

I want Monster Hunter and Final Fantasy VII to be on the PS3 sometime this generation. I love Monster Hunter, buy my friend tells me that on the home consoles it sucks, as opposed to on the PSP where it's awesome.

And the ending of Crisi Core was pretty much the start of FFVII, so it'd be interesting to see the world remade. I really love the FFVII universe.. It lends itself to an interesting subculture that has been fueled by over-the-top badguys like Sephy and one of the most entertaining usages of swords..
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKzAhPMgu_E[/youtube]