Yoichi Wada calls the PS3 and 360 pieces of crap.

[Raydeus]

Re: Yoichi Wada calls the PS3 and 360 pieces of crap.

If you consider what developers achieved with the PS2 after some years of experience, then just thinking about the posibilities for the PS3 is enough for me to wanna go into hibernation and wake up in 5-7 years.

(And of course a 5-7 years beauty nap would rock )

[Lilani]

Re: Yoichi Wada calls the PS3 and 360 pieces of crap.

This is bizzare given his unabashed praise of PS3...

Wada has said numerous times that he can't wait to push the system to it's limits with their games (e.g. FF 13)

If you ask me, he wasn't really trying to "bash" the PS3 or the 360. I consider bashing taking things that aren't so bad or aren't true about the subject and harping on them to no end.

He was simply stating facts that will lead them to more money with Dragon Quest. If they would have made the game for the PS3, very few gamers who wanted to buy it would have been able to because most PS3s are way out of most gamer's budgets, or simply sold out 24/7.

As for the "over engineered" bit I can't speak personally from it, however I can see how a game system that requires too much tech knowledge and "attachments" (like broadband connections or an HD TV) for optimum gaming would turn off many newcomers into RPGs, or the gaming industry as a whole.

He wasn't saying he thought they were crap, he was just saying they have their downsides and, for the time being, those downsides are bad for business. The PS2 probably faced the same scrutiny when it first came out as well. Soon enough more PS3s and 360s will be out there, prices will fall, better games will be released on them--and just as the PS1 did, the PS2 will fade into obsolete-dom and the PS3 will reign.

[Feba]

Re: Yoichi Wada calls the PS3 and 360 pieces of crap.

specially for multithreaded processing like AI programming.

That would be nice, but I doubt it'll happen. Honestly, how many games do you see with good AI anyway, even today? I don't see too much evidence that FFXI monsters are any more intelligent than FF1 monsters, how many times can you think of where a monster waiting until AFTER you were cured to full health to WS you? It really seems random. The game that looks most hopeful to me in this is that one where the conversations are supposed to be randomly generated or adaptive or whatever they were flaunting, and that still doesn't look too much more creative than KOTOR or MI. Certainly Japan has...'conversation' games that could blow that out of the water.

If you consider what developers achieved with the PS2 after some years of experience

That's the thing here- yeah, it's definitely got the horsepower to win this generation, but what about two or three generations by now? Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if in Sony's ten year PlayStation3 reign we see the fundamental elements of thought controlled gaming (a company has already started to release the technology, for PC gamers only though I believe) in a Nintendo Think, and see Microsoft adopting some motion control/Surface technology into LivingX.

Sony in gaming is a lot like MS in computers, even if they make a huge mistake, they can probably ride it out and recover- but in the short term, they'll suffer. Heck, how many millions in losses did sony's gaming division report recently?

[Manatra]

Re: Yoichi Wada calls the PS3 and 360 pieces of crap.

Well, according to Sony the PS3 is meant to be built like a computer in that you can supposedly upgrade/customize it... I have no clue if/when this'll happen, that's just what Sony says so take it with a grain of salt.
And actually, it is a supercomputer thanks to the Cell (which Sony spent a total of $500,000,000 alongside Toshiba and IBM developing! Fact! O . O)

Cell never was a super computer. Well, maybe in marketing speak land. Also, you will not be able to upgrade your PS3 in any meaningul way (such as CPU, graphics card, etc.). Meaning that it will always be behind PCs in terms of power. Latest Core2 Duo + GeForce 8800 > Cell + GeForce 7800 (RSX).

As for the "over engineered" bit I can't speak personally from it, however I can see how a game system that requires too much tech knowledge and "attachments" (like broadband connections or an HD TV) for optimum gaming would turn off many newcomers into RPGs, or the gaming industry as a whole.

What he means is probably two things:

1) The PS3 has too much extra fluff in it costing too much money (hi Blueray), thus putting many consumers off from buying it.
2) Development tools are far behind the current level of technology.

The fact is, the amount of money required to develop games with graphics on the level of Crysis, FFXIII, MGS4, is becoming prohibitively expensive. I would predict that, unless there is a revolution in the tools that developers use, graphics will reach a sort of plateau in the coming years.

[Malacite]

Re: Yoichi Wada calls the PS3 and 360 pieces of crap.

Honestly, how many games do you see with good AI anyway, even today?

Metal Gear Solid (entire series), F.E.A.R, Rainbow Six Vegas, GoW, and Halo to name a few.
They had a comparison on IGN.com between 360's 3 GPU's and the Cell, and Cell wins out by a small but still decent margin. The fact that 1 tiny, very powerful processor beats out 3 larger ones is pretty impressive. And for the last time, the thing is a mini-super computer. It's been stated a number of times, most notably by Ken Kutaragi himself (who has sadly stepped down now ;
Found it...
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/614/614783p1.html
PS3: Processor 3.2GHz Cell w/ 7 SPEs 2.0 TFLOPS
Memory 256MB XDR @ 3.2GHz, 256MB GDDR3 @ 700MHz
GPU 550MHz NVIDIA ( RSX )
360: Processor 3.2GHz G5 w/ 3 Cores 1.0 TFLOPS
Memory 512MB GDDR3 @ 700MHz 10MB Embedded DRAM
GPU 500MHz ATi
That is some nasty computational power.
http://ps2.ign.com/articles/585/585865p1.html (Old article I know but still valid)
# Each Cell processor contains 8 Synergistic Processing Units and a single 64-bit Power Architecture Unit (All are RISC designs with SIMD)
# Operates at >4GHz and capable of >256GFLOPS
# 256KB Local Storage per SPU and 512KB L2 Cache (2.5MB total)
# 128+ concurrent transactions to memory per processor
# High-speed internal element interconnect performing at 96B/cycle
# 234 million transistors
# Prototype die size of 221mm^2
# Fabricated with 90nm SOI process technology



EDIT: Oh, and PS3 is helping to cure cancer. Just another reason to own one.

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/08/24/he...with-your-ps3/

[Feba]

Re: Yoichi Wada calls the PS3 and 360 pieces of crap.

It's been stated a number of times, most notably by Ken Kutaragi himself

Are you trying to tell me the guy that made it has no reason to try to make it seem better than it is?

Oh, and PS3 is helping to cure cancer.

So is ATI, but hell if i'll ever buy a card. My old iMac is helping to cure cancer too. Perhaps you don't know this, but F@H is much older than the PS3. The only reason the PS3 is helping is because it comes preinstalled, if new copies of Vista shipped with it you'd see a lot more users too.

[Manatra]

Re: Yoichi Wada calls the PS3 and 360 pieces of crap.

Malachite, the Cell is not a GPU, it is a CPU.

Secondly it is not a super computer.

Anyway, let's stop trying to compare fictional specs, etc. and actually talk about something better?

For example, that revolution in developer tools...

[Malacite]

Re: Yoichi Wada calls the PS3 and 360 pieces of crap.

The GPU is the n'Vidia RSX I know. But everything runs through the cell, and I don't think Kutaragi would throw around the word "super computer" so casually if he didn't mean it. It was one of his major points during the E3 Sony Conference in 05 I believe (pretty sure it was 05 and not 06. That demonstration was awesome, they got a lot to live up to the SOBs)

No, it's not a super computer in a literal sense. But it does have the high computational power required thanks to Cell. Again, none of that is worth anything if people can't take advantage of it. Sony is notorious for designed high performance engines that also come with a rather complex/steep learning curve (PS2's emotion engine was a complete pain in the ass at first for programmers)

So is ATI, but hell if i'll ever buy a card. My old iMac is helping to cure cancer too. Perhaps you don't know this, but F@H is much older than the PS3. The only reason the PS3 is helping is because it comes preinstalled, if new copies of Vista shipped with it you'd see a lot more users too.

So now you're going to knock another outlet for cancer research? That's a new low buddy. I was only pointing out yet another positive, but apparently some people don't like the idea helping to rid the world of cancer.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Yoichi Wada calls the PS3 and 360 pieces of crap.

I belive what Feba was saying is that the whole "proceeds benefit the curing of cancer" thing has become more of a gimmick than anything else. Which it has.

[Malacite]

Re: Yoichi Wada calls the PS3 and 360 pieces of crap.

I belive what Feba was saying is that the whole "proceeds benefit the curing of cancer" thing has become more of a gimmick than anything else. Which it has.

It's not the proceeds that help, it's running the program on the system while you're not busy. And IMO anything that helps rid us of cancer is a blessing. That was my point really, more than anything. I suppose it came off as a "one more reason to buy PS3" add, and I'm sorry I just think it's a novel little feature of the system.

[Pai Pai Master]

Re: Yoichi Wada calls the PS3 and 360 pieces of crap.

Well, F@H is essentially unnecessary, but the PS3 does deserve some praise for its success, seeing as how processing rates skyrocketed beyond what they ever had been in the first weekend that the program was available on the PS3. But it is a pretty cool thing to have running while your system is idle.

Also, Feba, you haven't used Home yet. :3 So please reserve your judgement.

[Feba]

Re: Yoichi Wada calls the PS3 and 360 pieces of crap.

and I don't think Kutaragi would throw around the word "super computer" so casually if he didn't mean it.

Really, why wouldn't the GUY WHO MADE A PRODUCT HYPE IT?

So now you're going to knock another outlet for cancer research? That's a new low buddy. I was only pointing out yet another positive, but apparently some people don't like the idea helping to rid the world of cancer.

Nope, anything that fights diseases is a good thing, and don't you DARE fucking talk about me like i'm some kind of cancer cheering asshole, while I am an ass, I probably hate cancer much, much more than you do, and possibly ever will. Until you deal with your grandmother practically giving herself cancer, and continuing to harm herself after she's had one of her breasts removed due to it, until you deal with having your entire family worried to tears over someone's safety, and not knowing if a loved one will make it out of the OR alive, until you have to think every time they're mentioned if the doctors managed to get it all, if it will come back, or if they're going to get another cancer from their habits, do NOT try to act like I'm insulting cancer research, and pin me as the bad guy, got it?

My point was very clearly that there are hundreds of platforms and hardware out there that can run F@H, and that it's no reason to buy a PS3. If even half of Mac, Windows, and Linux computers on the planet would install and run F@H, the project would be incredibly far along. I've run F@H myself, and in fact now that I've reformatted my mac, I need to reinstall it. I used to have my mac on 24/7, any time I walked into my room I saw it processing away, folding proteins, and reminding myself of why I care.

Like my post said, there are F@H clients specifically built to run on an ATI GPU. Much faster than a CPU. I'm not buying ATI because of it, however. It's not a 'novel little feature', it's just something that was released for it. That said, you know what? I actually have considered buying a PS3 just to run F@H on, but it's not worth the price, especially when you consider that for the same 600$ I could probably feed an African family for a year. Yes, if I already had a PS3, I'd be running it every second of the day, but that's not the case, and it's not a good reason to buy it. Heck, think of how much 600$ could do if you paid to help provide free medicine at a local clinic, or how much of an impact you could help with the enviroment if you spent it on renewable energy sources.

Also, Feba, you haven't used Home yet.

No, but Sony would have to be retarded to not show off the best features of a product in their demo, and it was really underwhelming.

[Pai Pai Master]

Re: Yoichi Wada calls the PS3 and 360 pieces of crap.

Well nothing these days stays the same, but the prospect of Home is interesting at least if nothing else. It's a welcome addition for PS3 owners either way.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Yoichi Wada calls the PS3 and 360 pieces of crap.

They had a comparison on IGN.com between 360's 3 GPU's and the Cell, and Cell wins out by a small but still decent margin. The fact that 1 tiny, very powerful processor beats out 3 larger ones is pretty impressive.

Cell (PS2): 221 mm2
Xenon (xBox360): 168 mm2

Cell is the bigger processor, and could conceivably be called a 1+8 core CPU, with one general purpose CPU core, and eight smaller SIMD cores each with local RAM. (xBox360 uses a three-core CPU, not that it uses three CPU.)

That's my understanding, anyway.

[Amele]

Re: Yoichi Wada calls the PS3 and 360 pieces of crap.

Well, according to Sony the PS3 is meant to be built like a computer in that you can supposedly upgrade/customize it... I have no clue if/when this'll happen, that's just what Sony says so take it with a grain of salt.

sony said the same about the PS2 back when you could add a harddrive, actually. it's probably true, but how relevant is another story.

And actually, it is a supercomputer thanks to the Cell (which Sony spent a total of $500,000,000 alongside Toshiba and IBM developing! Fact! O . O)

7 co-processors and a fat price tag does not a supercomputer make. get back to me when Sony documents a test demonstrating 2.7 TFlops (the benchmark for making spot 500 on TOP500)

as another example: the average dell today is more powerful than the fastest supercomputer was in 1992. I stand by my claim. (and the basic ideas of Moore's law)

edit: (just caught this as I finished up reading the thread)

PS3: Processor 3.2GHz Cell w/ 7 SPEs 2.0 TFLOPS

considering IBM has documented only 100 GFLOPS on a standard linpack 4096x4096 matrix with a full feature 8 SPE cell (i.e. with no SPE's disabled) I call marketing BS on wherever ign got that stat. (not that IGN has ever been known for being accurate with specs).