Yoichi Wada calls the PS3 and 360 pieces of crap.

[Manatra]

Re: Yoichi Wada calls the PS3 and 360 pieces of crap.

Development costs are huge, but it doesn't really have to do with the console hardware. I'd wager that a Wii game costs nearly as much to make as a PS3 or 360 game (read: low to 7 digits in US dollars).

While it has been somewhat addressed. Cost has everything to do with the power of the hardware. Art assets are the most expensive thing to develop, and art assets are significantly cheaper to make for a game on the Wii than on the PS3/Xbox 360.

I'm not disputing the fact that it's easier to develop for the Wii since you don't have to do HD resolution (which simplifies a lot of things, such as models, shaders, not to mention engine source code itself), but there appears to be a hidden tradeoff of learning curve buried somewhere since the vast majority of Wii games are so milquetoast it's not even funny.

This is a valid comment, but neither does the PS3 or Xbox 360 escape from this criticism either. That being said, the Wii suffers more simply due to the fact that it caught everyone by surprise. A lot of developers liked the Wii but didn't expect it to do very well, and now that it is selling like hotcakes, developers are struggling to get games out fast enough.

In other words, it's like every other console, we'll start seeing some of the good stuff a year after its launched. It also needs to be said the PS3 is in some serious trouble right now.

[Icemage]

Re: Yoichi Wada calls the PS3 and 360 pieces of crap.

While it has been somewhat addressed. Cost has everything to do with the power of the hardware. Art assets are the most expensive thing to develop, and art assets are significantly cheaper to make for a game on the Wii than on the PS3/Xbox 360 for obvious reasons.

I wouldn't say that it's art assets, per se, but simply content as a whole. It IS harder and somewhat more time-consuming to do good-looking high resolution art than low resolution, however. On the back side of that, though, less hardware capability means you also have to play more black magic games on the programming side to squeeze extra power out of your hardware, which is an extra cost of its own.

This is a valid comment, but neither does the PS3 or Xbox 360 escape from this criticism either. That being said, the Wii suffers more simply due to the fact that it caught everyone by surprise. A lot of developers liked the Wii but didn't expect it to do very good, and now that it is selling like hotcakes, developers are struggling to get games out fast enough.

In other words, it's like every other console, we'll start seeing some of the good stuff a year after its launched. It also needs to be said the PS3 is in some serious trouble right now.

Fair enough, but from an interface standpoint, the Xbox 360 and the PS3 offer pretty much complete backward compatibility in interfaces to their previous generation. This is not true for the Wii.


Icemage

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Yoichi Wada calls the PS3 and 360 pieces of crap.

casual gamers aren't hardcore because they don't play *as much* but it doesn't mean they won't spend just as much

Hmm. I think you're wrong.

Casual Gamer: "Oh, this $20 bargain game looks fun, maybe I'll get it. Wait, that shiny toaster there costs the same. My old toaster looks nasty; better get the toaster."

Hardcore Gamer: "Man, that toast looks good, and I'm hungry. But, if I get that, I won't have enough to buy the overhyped $60 game that's coming out today. Control, man, control!"

[Amele]

Re: Yoichi Wada calls the PS3 and 360 pieces of crap.

Fair enough, but from an interface standpoint, the Xbox 360 and the PS3 offer pretty much complete backward compatibility in interfaces to their previous generation. This is not true for the Wii.
Icemage

ignores that the wii has inputs (or attachments) to replicate every control interface for: the gamecube, the n64, the Sega Genesis, the Super Nintendo, the Turbo-Grafix 16 (lol) and the original nintendo.

and, while it's not true for the earlier consoles, the wii has true machine support for gamecube titles (not-emulated) so for those who didn't buy a cube, there's already a long list of fun and enjoyable titles to pick up; similar to the ps2 and psx compatibility.

if that's not practically the definition of backwards controller compatibility, I don't know wtf is.

Hmm. I think you're wrong.

Casual Gamer: "Oh, this $20 bargain game looks fun, maybe I'll get it. Wait, that shiny toaster there costs the same. My old toaster looks nasty; better get the toaster."

Hardcore Gamer: "Man, that toast looks good, and I'm hungry. But, if I get that, I won't have enough to buy the overhyped $60 game that's coming out today. Control, man, control!"

this is right for casual gamers below the age of 25 maybe. However, this ignores the entire generation of casual/ex-gamers who can afford 50$ for a game but rarely purchase because they aren't interested in more graphically accurate headshots. (example: taking a family of four to a movie costs approximately 48$ in my area for 4 tickets, a family popcorn, and two large sodas. now imagine if papa Jim can make little stevie and susan happy with a new wii game, that he and his wife Mary will be able to pick up fast enough to play with their kids, and enjoy themselves on their own time.)

this is why most of the nintendo purchased wii system ads showed a family playing.

[Stormfalcon-sj]

Re: Yoichi Wada calls the PS3 and 360 pieces of crap.

Fair enough, but from an interface standpoint, the Xbox 360 and the PS3 offer pretty much complete backward compatibility in interfaces to their previous generation. This is not true for the Wii.

Not quite. The Wii can play Gamecube games (all you need are Gamecube controllers and memory cards and you're set). The 360, on the other hand, relies on software emulation to run original Xbox games, and it doesn't offer it for all of them (in short, if your game isn't on the emulation list, you're out of luck until they get around to it, if they get around to it). While earlier PS3s offered hardware emulation that plays the majority of PS2 games, the European PS3s go the software emulation route (see above comments on 360 emulation), and the American ones will go that route as well, if they haven't already (they were supposed to switch over as of 4/07).

[Feba]

Re: Yoichi Wada calls the PS3 and 360 pieces of crap.

the Xbox 360 and the PS3 offer pretty much complete backward compatibility in interfaces to their previous generation. This is not true for the Wii.

Whaaaaaaaaaaat? The 360 and PS3 aren't fully backwards compatible with PS1/PS2 and Xbox games, the Wii can play *100%* of gamecube games, AND has controller and memory ports for them, AS WELL AS the Virtual Console allowing it to play potentially *thousands* of classic games. What in the world are you talking about the Wii not being compatible with, Game Boy Player and the Gamecube Modem? Newsflash: Phantasy Star isn't a big deal, and GBA is dead.

[Feba]

Re: Yoichi Wada calls the PS3 and 360 pieces of crap.

Uh, no. You can actually play music/rhythm games quite well online.

Flash Flash revolution's online-multiplayer component was broken last I checked, not to mention their software is horribly glitchy. I tried to use it once, and none of the songs would even load correctly. Stepmania, which I do use, had better luck, but last I checked it's online component was also broken or glitchy.

You really think an online version of Guitar Hero III or SingStar where you can jam with your friends across the world won't sell?

It would sell, but rhythm games are fun to play with friends because they're making themselves look like a moron right next to you, not because you're playing with friends. if you take away that element, it loses it's appeal, it's not like an FPS where all you need is voice chat to make up for 99% of that.

The real question is "Can Nintendo convince third party developers to develop Wii-exclusive titles by sacrificing the Xbox 360 and PS3 markets".

Considering that within a few months they will almost certianly have a majority market share, I'd say yes. Plenty of games are made just for one console, that used to be the PS2, since it was most popular, but that's changing.

Look at flOw on the PS3 for instance.

I have no idea what this game is, but I would assume it's a racing game where you tilt the controller, or something to that effect? Besides the sixaxis being a rushed out wannabe-gameboy-pinball dualshock-ripoff piece of crap, that's nice, but that's about where the PS3's ability ends. I've never seen someone point a sixaxis at the screen to aim, or swing it to hit a ball out of the park (and even if you could, the controller would be incredibly uncomfortable to hold in such a way), let alone use it to perform surgery (trauma center)

[Malacite]

Re: Yoichi Wada calls the PS3 and 360 pieces of crap.

Sony needs to find a way for the PS3 to recognize and use PS1/PS2 saves.

My biggest pet peeve with the PS2 was that while I could store my PS1 saves on it, none of my PS1 games would recognize my PS2 memory card. This pisses me off to no end to this day. Yes, it's a minor inconvenience at best but I see no good reason not to fix this, unless it has to do more with the game's coding in which case the only fix would be a re-release... and that just wouldn't be worth it.


And Sony is the sleeping Giant. Nintendo's out running on a fad at the moment. It has a lot of potential, but seriously the majority of Wii games out at the moment are crap. The DS is still beating it out for crying out loud (yet another unexpected Nintendo runaway hit. But Nintendo made good on the DS rather quickly)

The fact is 360 dominates the North American market right now, and Halo 3 is only going to compound that. After all, Halo:CE was more than enough to sell the original Xbox, which was total junk for over a year until "good" games like Fable were released.

All Sony has to do is get off their asses and get the good stuff out. Where the hell is Legend of Dragoon 2? (There is no such game in planning, it's just a title I'd love to see as that game is a testament to what Sony can do for 1st party games.)

Lowering the cost of the system would certainly help too but it's not terribly likely. Mind you, people are retarded enough to buy the 360 Elite so who knows... (unless you already have a 360 it's just not worth it. Way to go MS for pulling something so stupid.) This is actually another good point for the PS3; while the cost of the bugger is high, it's not outrageous. It's been designed to last the next 10 years. The Wii and 360 have not.


Needless to say I'm confident all 3 companies will get their acts together (well, MS is pretty well on the right track already) and all will be well. I hope.

/em goes back to playing Seiken Densetu 2/3 on his emulator.



EDIT: Here's flOW Feba.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/765/765822p1.html

It's pretty trippy >. >

[Feba]

Re: Yoichi Wada calls the PS3 and 360 pieces of crap.

After all, Halo:CE was more than enough to sell the original Xbox, which was total junk for over a year until "good" games like Fable were released.

What you're forgetting though is that most of the halo fans have already got a 360, since it has been out so long, not to mention the beta, crackdown, dead rising...

Mind you, people are retarded enough to buy the 360 Elite so who knows...

Last I heard of the elite, it flopped, and MS pulled the plug. People just wouldn't buy it because of it's price, like another black console.

It's been designed to last the next 10 years. The Wii and 360 have not.

Knowing Sony hardware, you'd be lucky to have it last three. On a serious note though, the PS3 simply can't last 10 years, think about how crappy even late PS2 games look compared to PS3 games, they're trying to keep up in graphics power, and you just can't last that long. Take a ten year old computer and try to play ANY game released in the last year on it. Chances are, you couldn't even run the OS smoothly.

The PS3 is going to have the same problems. Honestly, it would've been better if sony had aimed it at the budget computer market and shipped it running Ubuntu than if they had marketed it as a game console. I might actually buy a PS3 as a budget gaming computer. As a console though, it's not worth the money, especially if I think Blu-Ray is a waste of time.

EDIT: Here's flOW

That old flash game? Weird, I didn't even like playing it when it was free. Always seemed boring to me. It's good for a bit of distraction, but once you get over the abstractness of it, it gets old fast. Not to say abstract games are bad- I personally love Katamari Damacy, and if the rumours of Beautiful coming out on Wii aren't true, I'm going to burn something.

And on a side note:

My biggest pet peeve with the PS2 was that while I could store my PS1 saves on it, none of my PS1 games would recognize my PS2 memory card.

Freakin' Agreed. When PS2 came out, I was so pissed I had to carry around two damn memory cards to play both flippin' games. Of course, now that I have approximately way too damn many PS2 games, wanting to play PS1 games isn't a problem, but it's the principle of the matter.

[Amele]

Re: Yoichi Wada calls the PS3 and 360 pieces of crap.

Nintendo's out running on a fad at the moment. It has a lot of potential, but seriously the majority of Wii games out at the moment are crap. The DS is still beating it out for crying out loud (yet another unexpected Nintendo runaway hit. But Nintendo made good on the DS rather quickly)

1. the DS is outselling damn near everything worldwide (current gen consoles included) with a current sales rate of 42.2 million it's outsold even such 'major hits' as the original xbox. this is hardly a good knock on the wii, unless you mean to say that since none of the current gen consoles is outselling the DS that they're all crap.

2. people said fad about the DS too.

This is actually another good point for the PS3; while the cost of the bugger is high, it's not outrageous. It's been designed to last the next 10 years. The Wii and 360 have not.

show me a computational system designed to run for 10 years that isn't a supercomputer and I'll show you a deluded designer. - given current trends in technology (technology grows exponentially) and you're looking at approximately 20 generations of processor technology between now and then... there's no way you'll convince anyone that the system is going to be any more relevant in 2016 than a Nintendo 64 is today. (that is, a system that still has some fun in it, but looks horribly outdated by todays standard).

[Icemage]

Re: Yoichi Wada calls the PS3 and 360 pieces of crap.

Whaaaaaaaaaaat? The 360 and PS3 aren't fully backwards compatible with PS1/PS2 and Xbox games, the Wii can play *100%* of gamecube games, AND has controller and memory ports for them, AS WELL AS the Virtual Console allowing it to play potentially *thousands* of classic games. What in the world are you talking about the Wii not being compatible with, Game Boy Player and the Gamecube Modem? Newsflash: Phantasy Star isn't a big deal, and GBA is dead.

It's not that you can't run the games. What I am referring to is that the Wiimote + Nunchuk is less than optimal for a good number of GameCube games.

There are also a number of virtual console games that cannot be played using only the Wiimote; why do you think there's a Classic controller, hm?


Icemage

[Feba]

Re: Yoichi Wada calls the PS3 and 360 pieces of crap.

What I am referring to is that the Wiimote + Nunchuk is less than optimal for a good number of GameCube games.

I don't believe the wiimote/nunchuck can be used for any GCN games... So? Not only is there the classic controller for this purpose, but *you can use your old gamecube controllers anyway.* And if you didn't already own a gamecube, you probably don't need to worry about gamecube games

There are also a number of virtual console games that cannot be played using only the Wiimote; why do you think there's a Classic controller, hm?

Yes, some systems have more than the number of buttons that a classic wiimote offers. NES games are fine, as are one or two other consoles. The classic controller again makes the Wii fully backward compatible with those games, and, though i'm not sure as I haven't tried it myself, i'm fairly sure that your old Gamecube controllers can again be used for these.

I don't see what you're trying to say the Wii isn't backwards compatible with compared to the PS3 or 360... it's far *more* compatible.

[Amele]

Re: Yoichi Wada calls the PS3 and 360 pieces of crap.

Yes, some systems have more than the number of buttons that a classic wiimote offers. NES games are fine, as are one or two other consoles. The classic controller again makes the Wii fully backward compatible with those games, and, though i'm not sure as I haven't tried it myself, i'm fairly sure that your old Gamecube controllers can again be used for these.

this is mostly correct: the GC controller works for all nintendo titles (NES,SNES,N64) but only for some of the turbografx and sega games (I haven't found one yet where it didn't that I would otherwise need a classic controller for, but I haven't been downloading many turbografx titles beyond bomberman '93 and I don't have any sega titles yet)

I also never owned a gamecube, but have picked up a wavebird and a couple single player titles I've wanted to play that I never got a chance to borrow at school (metroid prime 2, windwaker, etc) so it's been a plus that the hardware support is native and I don't have to worry if the latest support 'list' included the support for the game I just picked up or not.

[Malacite]

Re: Yoichi Wada calls the PS3 and 360 pieces of crap.

Well, according to Sony the PS3 is meant to be built like a computer in that you can supposedly upgrade/customize it... I have no clue if/when this'll happen, that's just what Sony says so take it with a grain of salt.

And actually, it is a supercomputer thanks to the Cell (which Sony spent a total of $500,000,000 alongside Toshiba and IBM developing! Fact! O . O) However, all that hardware power means didly squat if developers don't put it to good use. That's what I'm waiting for; PS3 is the most powerful of the 3 consoles, but it has yet to really tap into the raw power of the system and it's media (Blu-Ray)


Apparently though the same can be said of the other two consoles; What we've seen on the Wii so far is very basic stuff, nowhere near the limits of the controller so that's got me wondering what Nintendo's got cooked up :3


As for 360, I heard that not a single came uses all 3 GPUs yet, only 2 at max. That's pretty scary given how amazing GoW is.


I look forward to seeing the best of all of 'em ^^ go go Metroid/Halo3/MGS4 !

[Icemage]

Re: Yoichi Wada calls the PS3 and 360 pieces of crap.

Potential computational power and actual real world computational power are two different things, though.

None of the 360 games so far use the third GPU because most everyone is used to coding for 2-core architectures (and this is also related to why the PS3 games are lacking in polish at the moment - it has 7 SPEs, which a lot of coders don't really know what to do with yet).

In practice, the X360 and PS3 work out to be about the same horsepower-wise, given the current trends in programming. If Sony can get some compiling tools out there that remove some of the coding difficulty away from developers, then we may see the PS3 jump ahead slightly, especially for multithreaded processing like AI programming. It's a dead heat at the moment, though.


Icemage