Best in the Series

[Tekumel]

Re: Best in the Series

Being evil for the sake of being evil makes no sense, and ultimately is uninteresting. Being evil for the sake of the story? That makes even less sense...

Sephiroth believed he was the son of an ancient, and intended to find their fabled paradise. When he realized he was just an experiment he decided to crack the planet open using a meteor and absorb its power when it attempted to heal itself. That's that in a nutshell.

The only thing I didn't like was how he dropped pieces of Jenova on you all the time. It makes sense when you put Advent Children into context, but there was probably a better way to execute that. Dropping body parts of what he believes is his mother seems to be out of character for him.

Sephiroth was just another member of Square's "Big Hair, Big Weapon, Small Genitals" generation.

Cloud: Epic hair. A sword that had to weigh more than he did. And emo like AFI.
Sephiroth: Long, white, overaccentuated hair. A katana that screamed "HI, I'M A PHALLIC SYMBOL." And a totally useless villian.
Squall: emobangs. "Hmm...let's see what happens when you cross a gun...with a sword...OMG L337!". Almost as emo as Cloud.

I dunno. That whole era of games (7-9) just pissed me off to no end. Here they were doing so well with IV & VI...hell, I even liked the Gameboy games...and then, boom. Years of suckitude. Only solved when X came out. And I wouldn't say I *LIKED* X, but...that skill web rocked. And Blitzball...Blitzball was almost as much of a distraction as Triple Triad. Except I actually liked the game that Blitzball was a mini-game in.

Oh, and Square can kiss my ass once again. Final Fantasy on 360 is a "blank page"? God damn you you money hating bastards...take that "JP CONSOLE ONRY" out of your search comment, and give us 360 owners our fix!

EDIT: I forgot to mention, I've never played X-2 either. And here's why:

Kingdom Hearts rocked. To no end. I loved the gameplay. And y'know, scary as it was, the Squaresoft + Disney thing worked. And I think Square realized this. So they started looking for other franchises to do a "collaboration" with. Crossover. Whatever you want to call it.

So they called up Mattel. I mean...Barbie's an American icon.

And thus was Final Fantasy X-2 born.

[LilithAngel]

Re: Best in the Series

VI, Tactics, XII, Tactics: ADV, in that order. VI aside, my heart belongs in Ivalice (as do bunny girls, but you can have your alligator men back, just give me more bunny girls). By association (and by virtue of the fact that it was a damn good game), Vagrant Story also belongs on this list (even though it's not titled Final Fantasy: Vagrant Story).

If SE ever does do a VS sequel (what are you waiting for SE? ), it should release it as part of the Ivalice Alliance series, since that's where it'd belong.

I actually enjoyed VIII. Drawing 100 of each spell to maximize boosts to your stats ate a good amount of time, but was fun, and the storyline was enjoyable enough (if you can put aside your expectations of what *you* think a FF should be long enough to actually enjoy it), and the music in the fight scenes when you were controlling Laguna just owned (and was also the first time I ever heard techno/trance used in an RPG).

VII was just the Hollywood Summer Blockbuster Event movie of the FF series, I felt. Something enjoyable to mindlessly consume to tide you over to the real Oscar winners.

I'll ignore the funny localization problems to enjoy Tactics forever. That game is made of Solid Gold and Win. Tactics: ADV would have been there too if it didn't have the rather arbitrary Law system, but was good nonetheless. Bunny girls more than made up for it, though.

XII: Epic. Also, the scenarios and situations seem a lot more real, even as mired in fantasy as it was. No ultimately over-arching destroy-the-world, all-must-die, I-will-destroy-space/time-or-whatever-to-become-a-god types running about, just a power-hungry prince that used politics and treachery to gain his advantage (well, moreso than the other 14 main villains in the series, although Kam'lnaut and Eald'narche certainly did their fair share of political powerbrokering to get to their respective villain status, and to a lesser extent, so did Kefka). Leeway can be granted for what happens towards the very end, but meh, SE had to toss in a bit of the fantastic somewhere; I mean, this *is* a Final Fantasy. All in all, the theme I picked up from XII was it was more of a political power play piece, compared to the other 11 FFs. That's what made it stand out to me as a better overall story.

In the end, I like to see each Final Fantasy as defined by the villain more than the heroes; the good guys are merely reacting to what the bad guys/gals are doing, but it's the reasons and motivations behind what Kefka/Sephiroth/Zemus/Ultimecia/et al. do that give each FF its reason for being, IMO.

[DakAttack]

Re: Best in the Series

Sephiroth was just another member of Square's "Big Hair, Big Weapon, Small Genitals" generation.

Cloud: Epic hair. A sword that had to weigh more than he did. And emo like AFI.
Sephiroth: Long, white, overaccentuated hair. A katana that screamed "HI, I'M A PHALLIC SYMBOL." And a totally useless villian.
Squall: emobangs. "Hmm...let's see what happens when you cross a gun...with a sword...OMG L337!". Almost as emo as Cloud.

I dunno. That whole era of games (7-9) just pissed me off to no end. Here they were doing so well with IV & VI...hell, I even liked the Gameboy games...and then, boom. Years of suckitude. Only solved when X came out. And I wouldn't say I *LIKED* X, but...that skill web rocked. And Blitzball...Blitzball was almost as much of a distraction as Triple Triad. Except I actually liked the game that Blitzball was a mini-game in.

Sounds like you have some issues you need to resolve. One of them being you're too afraid that you might actually enjoy the games to go re/play them so that you know what you're talking about.

Phallic symbol? When you start seeing things as phallic symbols with no actual proof or reasoning you might have an inferiority complex, or a phallic fixation, or possibly both. Yea, I'll be sure to send SE a memo that reads "Next villain needs a tiny weapon because he has nothing to compensate for." It doesn't even need to be sharp because he knows at the end of the day he can please the women like no other villain can. And the hero doesn't need to be emo, or even slightly emo, because nothing has ever happened in his past that would cause extreme emotional scarring or something, because that's a HORRIBLE plot device. Nobody in their right mind would use the loss of a good friend to help develope character and plot. The hero is just a happy go lucky kind of guy who just fell into the role of saving the planet.

Right.

(Also: more bunny girls.)

[InuTrunks]

Re: Best in the Series

Next villain needs a tiny weapon because he has nothing to compensate for." It doesn't even need to be sharp because he knows at the end of the day he can please the women like no other villain can.

WIN.

/thread

[Chro]

Re: Best in the Series

Characters i don't like...I hated Yuffie and Cait Sith in FF7, they were both annoying in my eyes and i never used to level them up which made me come to problems eventually .

In FF8 i used to hate that git Irvine and Selphie. Both characters just didn't seem as interesting as the rest, I get the feeling that Square didn't really develop most of the other characters aside from Squall and Rinoa as much.

I never really played 9 because i took a look at the main character...who had a tail . But i shall have to buckle up and play it sometime i guess.

Never really liked anyone but Tidus and Auron in FFX, they were the stronger of the main characters i felt, and just seemed the coolest :D.

[eticket109]

Re: Best in the Series

VI is my fave, though I've liked pretty much all of them. There was so much variety possible in VI and I thought it had an amazing story. The CSes with Cyan always get to me a bit, though oddly I hardly ever use him anymore.

I liked VII, but it seemed incomplete to me. It had a great story to it though. I enjoyed X and think its usually underrated.

[Malacite]

Re: Best in the Series

I never understood the hate for FFVIII, honestly. I'll be the first to admit the story felt more like a simulation for what it felt like to be surrounded by idiots, but the game itself was very challenging and unique within the series.

What the HELL are you smoking? While I love 8, it was an utter joke when it came to difficulty. Just keep Squall and the others at low health and spam limit breaks. Plus, if you bother to do the Queen of the Cards quest you can end up with 100 Heroes and Holy Wars. Too easy (the sidequests on the other hand, are not.)

And I am SICK AND TIRED OF HEARING PEOPLE CALL CLOUD AND SQUALL EMO! CUT IT THE **** OUT ALREADY!

Good lord, do you have any idea how messed up these two characters are in the first place? Cloud was bad ass, and only really showed signs of weakness when it came to his past which, as it turned out, was a case of mistaken identity. He got some effed-up by the Mako infusions under the Shin-ra mansion as well.


As for Squall, he's an orphan who lost his sister at an early age and never really had any friends. I don't blame him for being anti social. Plus, if you actually bothered to pay attention to the damn story, you see that Rinoa helps him develop as a character and come out of his shell and grow up.

Neither of them are "emo", they just have tragic pasts and both end up developing into strong leaders. You'd be pretty messed up too if you were in either of their situations. They're not just moaning and bitching over every little thing.

Same goes with Tidus and Cecil. If I see one more misused emo label...


/rant off


had to get that off my chest


EDIT (Spoilers ahead for those have not played the games)

In regards to FF7, Hojo was the real villain in my opinion. Sephiroth was really just his misguided tool, nothing more.


Kefka on the other hand was a sadistic bastard. He enslaved Terra and killed countless espers for his own gain. He poisons the river flowing into Doma, killing his own men along with the enemy. He kills Gesthal and General Leo (Leo was awesome...)

Oh, and he actually managed to conquer/destroy the world. The moron knew full well what moving the Warring Triad would do, and yet he did it anyway. Why? Because he just didn't give a **** what happened to the world. He's just out for his own sick, twisted ends. He passes judgment on random villages, slaughtering innocent lives and just generally making life on a dying world even worse.


Oh yeah, and my favorite Kefka moment; he orders his escort to clean the sand off his boots... while marching in the desert!


FFX was more or less an interactive movie. It was a very good story, and I did enjoy it thoroughly. I especially loved how each character could be swapped in to handle specific enemies! Great way to make each party member unique. My main beef was that it was too easy. Most of the battles were a joke, save for a few. Hell, you literally could not lose the final boss fight!!!



Lastly, FF12. I bought the collectors edition. I enjoyed it for the first few hours... and then it sunk in. FF 12 was a sad excuse for an RPG. Auto-pilot battle system, poor character design (Vahn basically disappears as an integral character once Ash joins the party. Way to go SE) and a fairly lack luster ending IMO.


Thank goodness for Balthir, or I don't think I would have gone through it all. Well, that and I refuse to trade in a game before at least beating it once. Screw the sidequests, I feel like I got ripped off. FF12 felt like an FF6 wannabe to me, and I'm not surprised.

It's in "lolIvalice", rather than the good one. I was hoping for an epic story in St. Ajora's time, but no... we got this crap. What happened to the "greater focus on airships than any previous final fantasy title" SE? And no, the Imperial Fortresses do NOT count.

You have 3 sky pirates in the party. But do you ever fly around doing pirate stuff? HELL NO. I want my money back.

[LilithAngel]

Re: Best in the Series

Tidus was a crybaby. He was having daddy issues.

<Tidus> Daddy wasn't there, to change my underwear, to take me to the fair. Daddy wasn't there /cry
<Auron> Shut up, he was busy kicking ass
<Seymour> lolpwnt

Now, granted, Cloud and Squall did indeed have tragic pasts, but how each handled it was dramatically different: Cloud by disassociation and assumed identidy, Squall by becoming introverted and anti-social, but both managed to change for the better with the help of their friends, and especially their leading ladies. Tidus, while managing to hold the record for fastest-time-to-kiss in a Final Fantasy, it still didn't change the fact that it took him almost the entire game to come to grips with his father's descision to abandon him to save the world (both Spira and his son's). At least Cloud, Squall, Cecil, Zidane, and the others managed to resolve their issues by at least 1/2 to 3/4 of the way through the game. Tidus held out until the very end to face (literally), and fix, his underlying problems.

Cloud and Squall get props. Tidus... ...not so much.

[Feba]

Re: Best in the Series

Out of the ones i've played:

FF1- Seems alright, haven't played very much of it though

FF2- Barely played this. Key item thing seemed way too ahead of it's time though.

FF3- Got this for DS, still working on it.

FF4- never played

FF5- For Advance, up to the last boss now (can't freaking kill him though =/), pretty damn fun. Lame ass story, but solid battle system and (at least the advance version) has some humourous dialog.

FF6- Never played. I know, I know...

FF7- Got up to the gas chamber scene. It's alright, but I honestly think SE should've stuck with 2D graphics, 3D just wasn't quite there yet. Characters are totally unrealistic, I know it sounds silly, but they're just too over the top. The movie and various spinoffs have improved on this, but in general, they're too stereotypical. Sephiroth is a crappy villian, imo. How did he go from thinking he was just the shit, going insane and calling himself a monster, to wanting to help some freaky head thing take over the planet? Honestly, if he had killed himself and unleashed Jenovah's anger or something it would've been much more interesting. Also, Aeris' death was just weird. Would've been MUCH better if there had been a way to save her, so you actually feel guilty when she dies. Tons of other problems with this game as an FF, it's alright as an RPG, but nowhere near a good FF

FF8- Only played a pizza hut demo disc of this. Seemed interesting, never got around to buying it though.

FF9- Never played it.

FFX- Only played up to the airship battle, the characters are alright, although Tidus and Wakka are WAY too annoying, Sphere Grid scares me, and what i've heard of what happens latter sounds like bullshit.

FFXI- In my experience, the best FF "feel" overall, good mix of swords and technology, not too overpowering, good ancient civilizations, good villians.

FFXII- Personally, this didn't really feel like an FF game to me... it seemed more like a regular RPG with a lot of references to Final Fantasy in it. That said, this is, in my opinion, the best game in the series. The story is VERY realistic (you can actually draw a lot of parallels between it and a lot of other things in real life, try that with FF7), the characters are down to earth (Vayne is one of the only villians that really seems possible. He actually wants to make the world a better place), the enviroments are beautiful, mostly, and it's just a good mix of technology, mechanics, and magic. My ONLY gripe with this game is that everything from after draklor to after giruvegan had practically no logic to it. It almost seems like whoever was working on the storyline for the game just went on vacation for this. I mean seriously, go to giruvegan "Ok, let's wait here. Hey, an ghost! Let's follow it. OMIGAWD HE TRICKED ME INTO A BOSS FIGHT. Meh, hey guys, let's keep going in anyway instead of waiting like we said we were going to. WOAH BIG CRYSTAL! *Sudden inexplicably nonsensical teleportation or SOMETHING to give the princess a sword* Well, nothing down here, let's go back." I mean seriously, pay attention there, almost NOTHING they do makes sense, until they get up to the top of the tower really. Also, Vaan creeps me the fuck out. Seriously, what is his stomach, a fucking filet? I don't think they figured how that would work.

[LilithAngel]

Re: Best in the Series

Vayne Salidor does seem to be one of SE's better thought out villains for the series (as do most of all the rest of the cast of XII); he has real motivations and goals, and carries them out much like you would expect any "rational" person in his postion would. He was also very much a multi-layered character, not being some plain-black-and-white evil to the core super-badass, but rather more human than anything else. He actually did care about his brother, and had his best interest in mind, as well as that of the people his father conquered, albeit it was only to further his ambitions.

If anything, the way the story presented itself, it gave me the sense that Ashe herself was a bit more villainous then Vayne; she wanted power at almost any cost just for revenge, while Vayne wanted to conquer the world to make it better overall (even if he was primarily going to benefit from he setup). The citizens of Archadia were even in full support of Vayne almost the entire time, while Rabanastre was seen as a backwater, thief- and terrorist-ridden puppet state that was to be ground under Archadia's heel for daring to defy them and support their enemies in the war. Of course, Salidor had ulterior motives when offering an amnesty peace offering, but then, the scenario just went to show Archadia's treachery, and how far both Salidors would go for domination.

Overall a very interesting story, moreso than your usual FF fare.

[Cometgreen]

Re: Best in the Series

I haven't really thought about my favorite since playing XII. I think that, if the character stories of XII were better, it could possibly beat out VI for me (though VI has the unfair advantage of nostalgia). I mean, it had incredible gameplay and fantastic story elements, but I just never got all that enthralled, and I still don't feel like I know the characters. Seriously, who the hell is Vaan? What impact did he actually have? That, and I never really felt like I was going to save the world. That can be seen as positive, but I was just never sure what Vayne was trying to do. Or maybe I was just confused inside because I agreed with Cid's principles.

So yeah, same answer as always for me: Final Fantasy VI. It's all about Kefka. And Edgar. And Terra. And Sabin. And Setzer. And Locke. And Gogo. And everything else about the game.

After that, I'd say XII is up there, then probably X. I loved playing IX, but nowadays I find very little of it memorable, whereas I can remember cool things about every other game (even VII, which is my least favorite). VIII's first disc is great, and it had the potential to be a great game, though I'd still place it above VII. IV and V are also great games, and I've yet to complete II or even try III (no DS yet).

Until I finish RoZ and CoP (and ToAU and WotG and whatever else comes out), I don't feel comfortable comparing XI with the others. Though it's definitely consumed more time than the rest.

[Feba]

Re: Best in the Series

Uh, person a couple posts above me, that's the great thing about Vaan. He doesn't have some whiny backstory, he's just doing it because it's the right thing to do.

And yep, Lilith, if you really examine the story, technically the protagonists are the bad guys. Kinda like in Star Wars, but the Empire isn't even that bad.

[Rostum]

Re: Best in the Series

FF7- Got up to the gas chamber scene. It's alright, but I honestly think SE should've stuck with 2D graphics, 3D just wasn't quite there yet. Characters are totally unrealistic, I know it sounds silly, but they're just too over the top. The movie and various spinoffs have improved on this, but in general, they're too stereotypical. Sephiroth is a crappy villian, imo. How did he go from thinking he was just the shit, going insane and calling himself a monster, to wanting to help some freaky head thing take over the planet? Honestly, if he had killed himself and unleashed Jenovah's anger or something it would've been much more interesting. Also, Aeris' death was just weird. Would've been MUCH better if there had been a way to save her, so you actually feel guilty when she dies.

The graphics weren't over the top at the time, it was a fairly good breakthrough. And I really don't get how you would not understand the motives of Sephiroth, or why you'd even comment on it if you've only played half the game. I can tell you right now that what you had simplified it down to, is wrong. >.>;
It'd also help if you understood why Aeris died.

Tons of other problems with this game as an FF, it's alright as an RPG, but nowhere near a good FF

What are the other problems? Why doesn't it feel like an FF game? By the look of your list, you've barely played the majority of FF games to even have an opinion of why it isn't a good Final Fantasy.

Personally, this didn't really feel like an FF game to me... it seemed more like a regular RPG with a lot of references to Final Fantasy in it.

Again, why makes you say it isn't a Final Fantasy? Your list says you haven't played many of them.

[LilithAngel]

Re: Best in the Series

The thing about XII that stuck out the most to me was how Vayne genuinely took responsiblity, and cared, for the people of Rabanastre, helping them to rebuild politically (to a limited extent), economically, infrastructure-wise, and directly confronting the people themselves about the current situation, attempting (successfully) to ease their concerns ever the transition period and helping them come to terms with the occupation. That's class (and a shit ton of ranks in Diplomacy ).

Sephiroth wouldn't do that. He'd simply burn your village to the ground, all the while spouting some nonsense about his "mother" and their eventual hereditary right to rule.

Kefka wouldn't do that. He'd simply turn your father to magicite, control your mind, nuke your village, and decimate the world. All while laughing. Maniacally.

Ultimecia wouldn't do that. She'd simply take control of your local sorceress' mind, alter space/time, and attempt to eradicate your way of life by preventing it from ever happeneing.

Garland/Chaos wouldn't do that. He'd simply drive the world into an endless time loop just so he wouldn't die. Lame.

Yu Yevon wouldn't do that. It'd simply make you the next Sin.

Zemus, Kuja, Shadow Lord, Promathia, Palmecia, Ex-Death, all of them, they all had some over-the-topness with them, they were the fantastic, the fantasy, the unreal, and they all pulled it off more or less without a hitch in their respective games, but compared to each other, some of them seem too far out there, while others, not strong enough to be villains.

Vayne seems to be the most 'normal' of the bunch, and even then, I don't entirely see him as being all that evil, as much as being on the side the player isn't. Even then, the game goes through a good deal of effort to convince you that Vayne and Cid were actually onto something, and that they weren't so bad after all.

That's what stuck out to me as being what was most memorable about this FF; the main villain of XII, if there was one, was wearing a red miniskirt, and was hanging out in your party the whole time (although I did make her into a pretty good Paladin-type, Japanese schoolgirl uniform references aside).

Oh, and yeah, more bunny girls plz. kthx.

[Murphie]

Re: Best in the Series

I was going to mention how it seems odd for Feba to say something is "more/less FF-like" when by his own admission he hasn't actually played that many FF games.

But I thought that would be dickish. :/