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  • Localization's a bitch

    Somewhat interesting FFXI-related article posted on Gamasutra:

    GDC: Square-Enix's Honeywood Talks Problems With The Locals

    A talk was held this morning by Richard Mark Honeywood, a translator, localization director, and programmer on many Square-Enix titles. By his side was fellow translator Colin Williamson, and they spent their hour focusing on the difficulties and tricks to localizing a Japanese produced game for other territories.

    The first problem – as fans of their games will attest – is Square-Enix games “are so damn complex” and there is never enough time. As Honeywood put it, everyone on the localization staff are “either artists or perfectionists,” something that could be improved upon.

    There is also never enough money. Some of the more interesting ways for the team to save money is “instead of flying everyone to Tokyo, we’ll go to places like Austria,” due to the cheaper airfare and accommodations. Additionally, members of the localization team will provide voices for some of the minor roles. Williamson then demonstrated his rather impressive Slime voice.

    There is also never enough space on Square-Enix games. The eternal problem of Kanji to English did not go away with the 16 bit era. An example of a more inventive solution was shown with Final Fantasy VIII, in which a menu of statistics using Chinese characters in the Japanese version was replaced in the localized version with icons instead of words.

    With Final Fantasy XI, Square-Enix’s MMORPG, keeping the English translation up to date with the scripts being produced by Japanese development team was described by Honeywood as “a war of attrition”.

    After being on the project for four years, Honeywood went to work on other games, leaving behind a game script the size of the Bible, currently over 1,000,000 words in length. Keeping up with the languages across multiple platforms and expansion packs, Honeywood said “If we weren’t so close with the development team, we would probably have killed each other by now.”

    And of course, there are never enough translators for all projects. “We lack direct Japanese to FIGS (French, Italian, German, Spanish) translators, so we have to resort to Japanese to English, then English to FIGS.”

    The main challenge in localizing these games was, said Honeywood, was, “How am I expected to translate all this text into English when they don’t have basic grammar!” or what can be seen as the “You got a 5 sword(s)” translation problem. Honeywood said that “for small games you can branch the source code,” but European languages can have up to 16 grammatical variations making it impossible to hard code.

    The solution for them was a custom built macro system that handles articles, singular/plurals and masculine/feminine/neutral text branching. In addition, Square-Enix now work with the development teams to implement singular/plural item distinction in the design phase.

    Important to Honeywood was product differentiation, or to make each game unique. While most Final Fantasy games have gone for Americanized English for its translation - Final Fantasy XII being a recent exception - for Dragon Quest VIII they decided to go for British English.

    To this end, they employed a British recording studio and used classical stage actors and a theatrical director for all voice directions, giving it a unique “flavour” from other Square Enix games.

    Where Honeywood saw room for improvement in the future included more simultaneous multi-language development, format standardization across teams, improved tools, better lip-synching methods and better market research concerning what to release.

    POSTED: 02.02PM PST, 03/09/07 - Chris Woodard
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  • #2
    Re: Localization's a bitch

    Whoah that seems like a lot of work, but when it comes to voices they at least have the option of letting the original sound play and add a subtitle option (and stop wasting time and money destroying the original sound).

    But with games with as much text as XI I can understand the amount of preassure they have on their shoulders.
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    • #3
      Re: Localization's a bitch

      Most people don't want subtitles. Localizations are done the way they are done for a reason.
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      • #4
        Re: Localization's a bitch

        If people prefers hearing crappy voices rather than read a bit it is their choice after all (I still think it's a dumb waste), but developers could at least include the option to have the original sound instead, adding a subtitle option isn't gonna break their budget but even without it I would be way happier.

        Also, maybe it's just me but I don't find people (who can support themselves) who rather listen to dubbing nowadays, most of them rather torrent the anime or watch it on sites like Youtube than watch the awful CN versions and the like.


        That being said, kids do seem to prefer dubbing, so until the US stops treating video games and anime as a children kinda thing I don't think we'll see much improvement.

        After all the reason why US dubbing sucks so much is because they treat anime and video games like they treat Looney toons cartoons.
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        • #5
          Re: Localization's a bitch

          Originally posted by Raydeus View Post
          If people prefers hearing crappy voices rather than read a bit it is their choice after all (I still think it's a dumb waste), but developers could at least include the option to have the original sound instead, adding a subtitle option isn't gonna break their budget but even without it I would be way happier.
          There are bad voiceovers in Japanese, too. Just because it was the original dub doesn't mean it was a good dub, to those that don't know japanese, it really just means ignorance is bliss.

          I don't even know Japanese, but I've watched a couple J-Dramas with subtitles. I know what bad acting looks and sounds like, a language barrier won't obscure it.

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          • #6
            Re: Localization's a bitch

            In most situations I find dubbing helps--when done right. The problem is most companies bringing foreign language stuff over to North America don't get the proper voice actors and don't do the proper translation work needed. This is especially the case with most anime because the companies know they can escape with a horrible dubbing job and people will still gobble it up. Which is at the root of why a lot of people who watch anime prefer it in Japanese with subtitles.

            However, dubbing when done right, dubbing is much better than subtitles (FFXII, MGS, DQ8 [yes, I know the Japanese version didn't have voices]). Though there are situations where subbing is better, such as Pan's Labyrinth for example.

            Also,

            Originally posted by Raydeus
            If people prefers hearing crappy voices rather than read a bit it is their choice after all (I still think it's a dumb waste), but developers could at least include the option to have the original sound instead, adding a subtitle option isn't gonna break their budget but even without it I would be way happier.
            I doubt including a seperate Japanese voice track is possible for most games, especially with something like Final Fantasy XII. The space constraints on the DVD format prevents that. I would think it will also still be the case for the Blue-ray format due to the fact that they will be using more space for higher quality sound and textures. I was honestly surprised that FFXII fit on only one DVD.
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            • #7
              Re: Localization's a bitch

              Originally posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten View Post
              There are bad voiceovers in Japanese, too. Just because it was the original dub doesn't mean it was a good dub, to those that don't know japanese, it really just means ignorance is bliss.

              I don't even know Japanese, but I've watched a couple J-Dramas with subtitles. I know what bad acting looks and sounds like, a language barrier won't obscure it.
              That's true, in some cases dubbing can actually fix a crappy job with the original sound/performance. I don't have anything against dubbing, the problem is the aproach many dubbing companies take with their works.

              Exaggerated and over the top acting that's done in the same way you'd do a dubbing for a program aimed for a 5 year old audience is what kills most dubbing works.

              Originally posted by Manatra View Post
              In most situations I find dubbing helps--when done right. The problem is most companies bringing foreign language stuff over to North America don't get the proper voice actors and don't do the proper translation work needed. This is especially the case with most anime because the companies know they can escape with a horrible dubbing job and people will still gobble it up. Which is at the root of why a lot of people who watch anime prefer it in Japanese with subtitles.

              However, dubbing when done right, dubbing is much better than subtitles (FFXII, MGS, DQ8 [yes, I know the Japanese version didn't have voices]). Though there are situations where subbing is better, such as Pan's Labyrinth for example.
              Yeah, that's what I hate about dubbing right now, the half assed job they do 95% of the time. So sadly those examples are an exception rather than the rule, but I agree, at least in the MGS case the english dubbing was well done.

              Originally posted by Manatra View Post
              I doubt including a seperate Japanese voice track is possible for most games, especially with something like Final Fantasy XII. The space constraints on the DVD format prevents that. I would think it will also still be the case for the Blue-ray format due to the fact that they will be using more space for higher quality sound and textures. I was honestly surprised that FFXII fit on only one DVD.
              I dunno if voices take that much space, but if they do I hope that issue is resolved in the upcoming PS3 BD titles.

              One of the things I'd love is seeing Japanese voice files for many games on the PS Network store. Playing Zone of the Enders/2nd Runner with the original Japanese voices (subtitles or not) would make the game worth some replaying.

              And I really hope ZOE 3 includes a japanese voice option.



              Edit > So I guess my request would be:

              If you [developers and people who makes the translation/dubbing work] can't do a good-excellent job with the voices, then don't do it at all. Simply add subtitles and stop wasting money and time in the destruction of the original material.
              Last edited by Raydeus; 03-11-2007, 06:17 PM.
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              • #8
                Re: Localization's a bitch

                Most people don't want subtitles. Localizations are done the way they are done for a reason.
                Gah, when I play Onimusha I damn well want it in japanese with english subtitles, it totally ruins the feel of kicking demon butt in medivel japan to have your guy, the demons, and all the ninjas running around spouting off english, especially if they are bad voice actors.

                I have heard so many bad english voice actors for anime that I almost never watch an anime unless it is in japanese with english subtitles. The only good english voice overs I have heard have been the Miyazaki movies. In some cases with those, such as Howl's Moving Castle, I actually prefer the english voices, but that is the only one I can think of.

                Simply add subtitles and stop wasting money and time in the destruction of the original material.
                Agreed.


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                • #9
                  Re: Localization's a bitch

                  yeah, dubbing, paricularly in anime, usually sucks. I'll take subtitles over dubs anyday...
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                  • #10
                    Re: Localization's a bitch

                    Originally posted by Raydeus View Post
                    I dunno if voices take that much space, but if they do I hope that issue is resolved in the upcoming PS3 BD titles.
                    Um... dual language tracks have already been done on several games. The recently released Ar Tonelico on PS2 has Japanese and English voices that can be switched at your discretion. Enchanted Arms and the upcoming Blue Dragon for Xbox 360 also has dual language tracks.
                    It's up to the developer if they want to provide support for it. More often than not, they choose not to because retaining the voices means royalties have to be paid toward said actors in Japan.
                    Of course, you also have games where they leave the original voices alone, such as Shadow of the Colossus on PS2 and Panzer Dragoon Saga on the Sega Saturn.

                    Edit: Also, if you want to see an example of bad Japanese acting, watch these.
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