Sony shafts Europe on PS3 (again)

[Nazo]

Re: Sony shafts Europe on PS3 (again)

Wow that's hilarious, they've incurred yet more bad press and potentially cost themselves thousands of sales for the sake of $27 per unit? When we're already paying so much more than everywhere else? With business brains like that there's no wonder PS3 is sinking.

[Pai Pai Master]

Re: Sony shafts Europe on PS3 (again)

$27 per unit is a huge difference, considering they could drop the loss down by $40 or more once they switch to 65nm process for CELL processor, just by processor production alone. The console itself will need less cooling once that happens so overall, the 65nm CELL will probably be the biggest cause of cost-reduction the PS3 sees until a form factor revision later in its cycle.

They're working on cost-reduction faster than they ever did with the PS2 or PSone (65nm Emotion Engine didn't come until 4 years later with PS2, once the slimline came out). Chances are at this point they're only losing about $130-150 per unit (loss was well over $200 per unit at launch for 60GB, even higher for 20GB), and by summer it'll probably be under $100 per unit.

CELL and Blu-ray production were extremely high-cost before PS3 launch in Japan and NA, now with Blu-ray being a huge success and CELL becoming easier to produce, costs on those two parts will drop drastically. Sony's phasing out their in-house CELL production in order to cut cost now that launch demand has been met. By the fall it's very possible Sony will no longer be losing money on PS3 production, and once they start lowering the cost and turning profit on units, it'll become easier and easier to drop the retail price of the unit.

Sony's well aware that price is the biggest obstacle that's keeping them from reaching the mainstream gaming community, so I wouldn't take every attempt to cost-reduce production of the PS3 so lightly. It all adds up, and this move certainly won't lose them thousands of sales. As I said, the media's just blowing it out of proportion; everyone loves hounding on the PS3 right now. I can assure you software emulation is a great change. Compatibility makes no difference; Sony will work to make as many games as possible compatible, and they'll be able to take advantage of the incredibly higher power of the CELL and RSX. If they can do it right, games will run smoother and we already know they can be upscaled to 720p, at least.

[Vyuru]

Re: Sony shafts Europe on PS3 (again)

It's a start at getting the cost down for the PS3 at the very least.

With the backwards compatability issue, I'm a little confused. Are they saying at the Euro launch for the PS3, it'll be able to play fewer PS2 games than the NA/JP, with the rest added on later, or is it saying that it will play fewer PS2 games than the NA/JP versions period?

[Pai Pai Master]

Re: Sony shafts Europe on PS3 (again)

Not period. It's never period anymore; that's why it's retarded that the media is blowing this out of proportion so much. People just need to be patient. Backwards Compatibility is probably last on the list of the PS3's best features, so I think in the end people can be patient once they get their hands on their systems.

Backwards Compatibility was roughly 75% at the first PS3 launch, and even then ALL games were horribly flawed. It was 0% perfect; all games had serious graphics issues until January.

BC could be anywhere from 30%-90% perfect at EU launch, but Sony will get it as near to perfection as they can. They're not just changing over for EU launch, they're doing it worldwide and they certainly won't go from 98% to anything seriously lower in North America and Japan. They're switching in Europe first because PS3 has yet to launch in Europe. It sucks hard, but Europe won't suffer as much from starting with weakened compatibility now and improving later as America and Japan would suffer from losing 30% of titles.

Keep in mind that Sony hasn't even announced an exact percentage of titles that are fully compatible; they didn't even do that for us until some time after launch. They've done a fantastic job so far perfecting the system and that won't change just because they're switching over to software-based BC. That'll make it better.

[Vyuru]

Re: Sony shafts Europe on PS3 (again)

Yeah, since this is going to get updated, I wouldn't mind so much if it wasn't 100% finished, so long as the updates fix things and all.

[Nazo]

Re: Sony shafts Europe on PS3 (again)

Sony will get it as near to perfection as they can

What are you basing these assertions on exactly? Certainly not Sony's own words:

"Rather than concentrate on PS2 backwards compatibility, in the future, company resources will be increasingly focused on developing new games and entertainment features exclusively for PS3," said David Reeves, president of SCEE.

Developing emulation software is not an easy thing, I doubt they'll want to invest too much into it.
You may see this as the press blowing things out of proportion, but the thing about the press it that people read it and make buying decisions based on it.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Sony shafts Europe on PS3 (again)

Backward compatability is a signifigant issue to me as a RPG gamer, I know full and well it will take at least two years for adventure games (not action, adventure, think Ico or Zelda). These genreas will take possibly two years to get rolling on PS3 and probably one more year for Xbox 360 to do the same. DS, PSP and the prior generation consoles will be my only true source for those kinds of games

Problem? Sony consoles aren't exactly reliable, they historically the most poorly built consoles on the market. And Sony's customer support usually acts like you broke it on purpose when Nintendo and MS will bend over backwards to accomodate you on the most minor of problems and treat you like a valued customer.

I'd love to say I could get a PS3 and let my PS2 handle the other games, but I have perform pagan rituals to even get the damn PS2 to play something that isn't FFXI. Dust on the lens, lens out of alignment, overheating... and this after numerous repair and taking good care of this system.

[Jarre]

Re: Sony shafts Europe on PS3 (again)

As for price, it does suck and I'm sorry. I hate seeing that a lot of PS3 fans have been discouraged from buying the console because of the higher prices in Europe and other areas. It's not completely Sony's fault due to the massive amount more that European consumers have to pay because of VATs. They could, however, have done something about that.

Problem with vat is its only 17.5% which still doesn't make up the equivilent price we have to pay of twice what you in the US pay for it. The fact is we are considerably ripped off by these companies and all the shops that sell these items. Due to mark up. It no wonder so many of us import, which now they are really clamping down on as the governemnt looses money from that.

I'll give you an instance...

Nokia phone charager. sold in the UK for £9.99 (about $18)
shop buys it wholesale to sell for £0.99 ($1.80) and sells it for the above price, thats a 10x mark up, granted a third goes to the government (VAT) and on overheads but thats it. still 66% profit and its the Recomended retail price set by Nokia.

Add that to hundreds and thousands of electrical goods in teh Uk including games consoles, Ipods LCD tv's. mobile phones etc etc. and you see why we nickname our country"rip off britain".

[Kirsteena]

Re: Sony shafts Europe on PS3 (again)

Btw Jarre, I think Amazon are yanking the chain about FFXII - I walked into Woolies, Smiths, and Gamestation on Saturday and all had copies, I picked mine + the limited edition book up today in Game.

[Blaez]

Re: Sony shafts Europe on PS3 (again)

ive heard it is 39.99 GBP. Thats not really that much for a game (yes i know this is about the system, which I personaly believe is a load of $#!^ but yeah, heh im good with my computer )

[Pai Pai Master]

Re: Sony shafts Europe on PS3 (again)

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/767/767811p1.html

Finally some good news for Europe. First-party PS3 games priced in line with Wii pricing, not 360 pricing.

[Manatra]

Re: Sony shafts Europe on PS3 (again)

Not period. It's never period anymore; that's why it's retarded that the media is blowing this out of proportion so much. People just need to be patient. Backwards Compatibility is probably last on the list of the PS3's best features, so I think in the end people can be patient once they get their hands on their systems.
Backwards Compatibility was roughly 75% at the first PS3 launch, and even then ALL games were horribly flawed. It was 0% perfect; all games had serious graphics issues until January.
BC could be anywhere from 30%-90% perfect at EU launch, but Sony will get it as near to perfection as they can. They're not just changing over for EU launch, they're doing it worldwide and they certainly won't go from 98% to anything seriously lower in North America and Japan. They're switching in Europe first because PS3 has yet to launch in Europe. It sucks hard, but Europe won't suffer as much from starting with weakened compatibility now and improving later as America and Japan would suffer from losing 30% of titles.
Keep in mind that Sony hasn't even announced an exact percentage of titles that are fully compatible; they didn't even do that for us until some time after launch. They've done a fantastic job so far perfecting the system and that won't change just because they're switching over to software-based BC. That'll make it better.

For me backwards compatibility is a big draw, and there's quite a few people that I know that consider backwards compatibility a big draw as well. Obviously software emulation won't be so bad as long as Sony isn't like Microsoft and stops releasing updates but regardless...

Sony's biggest problem is not the price of the console (although it is a huge issue) it's the fact that there are no games. There's maybe what, MGS4 and FFXIII; which aren't coming out for at least a year. The PS3 is in trouble, Sony knows it, and so do a lot of other people. While it won't bomb it is definitely not going to be the success the PS2 was.

[Raydeus]

Re: Sony shafts Europe on PS3 (again)

While it won't bomb it is definitely not going to be the success the PS2 was.

It's still waaaaaay too early to tell though.

But then again, that doesn't change the fact the PS3 really needs more games and soon or they are risking players simply skipping the console for another year or two, and that is something developers wouldn't like at all.

[Icemage]

Re: Sony shafts Europe on PS3 (again)

Problem? Sony consoles aren't exactly reliable, they historically the most poorly built consoles on the market. And Sony's customer support usually acts like you broke it on purpose when Nintendo and MS will bend over backwards to accomodate you on the most minor of problems and treat you like a valued customer.

Mmm... no, I think Microsoft has the crown for most broken consoles. Just HOW many Xbox 360s did they have to repair last year after their update that turned virtually every Xbox 360 into oversized white doorstops?

Welcome to Microsoft's version of Hell - The Red Circle of Death

Granted, at least they did offer to replace them all for free, but when the mere phrase "Red Circle of Death" leaves psychological scars on every 360 owner you meet, you know you have a serious problem.


Icemage

[Pai Pai Master]

Re: Sony shafts Europe on PS3 (again)

Sony's biggest problem is not the price of the console (although it is a huge issue) it's the fact that there are no games. There's maybe what, MGS4 and FFXIII; which aren't coming out for at least a year. The PS3 is in trouble, Sony knows it, and so do a lot of other people. While it won't bomb it is definitely not going to be the success the PS2 was.

Sales numbers disagree with you, as the PS3 is selling more successfully than the PS2 did this early in its launch cycle at 2x the price point.

If you're looking at games this year then the Wii is in the worst shape by far, with no major releases beyond Nintendo's few first-party offerings of Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, Super Mario Galaxy and Super Smash Bros. Brawl. I can count the number of Wii titles I'm excited for in 2007 with one hand.

In its 2nd full year the 360 may have the broadest range of titles for release this year, but most major studios will be absent from the fall lineup because there's just no sense to compete with both Halo and Grand Theft Auto. Halo 3 has the potential break every record Halo 2 did. The PS3 and 360 share two major titles this year in the form of Assassin's Creed and Grand Theft Auto 4.

Saying the "PS3 doesn't have any games" is a gross understatement, with a massive number of titles hitting in the next few months alone. Virtua Fighter 5 was released last week to great reviews. Motorstorm will be out in two short weeks, with studios playing catchup bigtime in March, releasing titles like Oblivion, Rainbow Six Vegas, and Armored Core 4 (which is seeing a month or two's exclusivity on the PS3). E3 2006 Playable Console Game of the Year Heavenly Sword will be out in the summer alongside the heavily anticipated Lair, and Hot Shots Golf 5 hits Japan in May (can't wait to import!). David Jaffe's anticipated downloadable game Calling All Cars! is almost done and will be ready in a month or two, and although it's essentially a remake of a remake, Ninja Gaiden Sigma will be out in the summer as well. Warhawk, Unreal Tournament 3, Half Life 2: Orange Box, and Burnout 5 will see release in the fall, the aforementioned Assassin's Creed and Grand Theft Auto 4 will probably be the two biggest games of the fall season, with Ratchet and Clank Future: Tools of Destruction and Killzone 2 being Sony's prize-choice Holiday titles. We don't know when it'll see release this year, but Singstar has the potential to move millions of PS3 units in the Europe market, and the franchise's PS2 debut in America last year was fairly successful itself.

All three platforms go out with a bang at the end of 2007, but the PS3 has the biggest long-term potential, with guaranteed bigsellers like Gran Turismo 5, Metal Gear Solid 4, Final Fantasy XIII, Monster Hunter 3 (Monster Hunter 2 Portable just sold 500,000 units in Japan on its first day, sold through all units shipped), and Resident Evil 5, backed up by eagerly awaited Resistance 2, White Knight Story and Tekken 6 set for 2008. God of War 3 might even make a 2008 release. It's still a long way to come, but the PS3 is the platform with the biggest announced titles in 2008. This generation is the strongest we'll ever see, in my opinion, and anyone foreseeing a lack of titles for any of them in the future is strongly mistaken.