Stockholme Syndrom vs MMORPGs and other addictions

[DakAttack]

It's late for me, and I thought I'd like to get this topic out there to hear people's responses about it in the morning(and to help me sleep). For this discussion to work properly, people are going to have to look at this realistically and probably make a few concessions or admissions to themselves.

Main Entry: Stock·holm syndrome
Pronunciation: 'stäk-"hO(l)m-
Function: noun
Etymology: from a 1973 robbery attempt in Stockholm, Sweden, during which bank employees held hostage developed sympathetic feelings toward their captors
: the psychological tendency of a hostage to bond with, identify with, or sympathize with his or her captor
The more I think about it the more I begin to see similarities. I'm more focused on MMORPGs than addictions in general, but what I'm thinking could probably be applied to both.

It seem like when we play MMORPGs we're living in these false worlds, and we become so involved within these false worlds that we become attached. This is obviously unhealthy, and is what constitutes the addiction. Even if you're not addicted, I believe this may affect you as well if you're one of those 'because there's nothing better to play' people. We know this is unhealthy, we know sitting in front of a computer for six hours at a time isn't what 'normal' people do, but we return to it time and time again.

The game becomes our captor, but why can't we see it? Even if we understand this unhealthy affixation to our computers or captors why don't we do anything about it? I think it's the lack of action we take that bends greatly to the will of Stockholm Syndrome.

Do we feel captured or chained? I know I didn't. I've been taking a long break from FFXI, and I can still feel it drawing me back in. I think comfort zones also play a large part in this, and how the syndrome can twist and warp comfort zones.

I really want to know what others think, so I know whether or not I'm crazy for thinking this.

Thanks.

[Murphie]

Re: Stockholme Syndrom vs MMORPGs and other addictions

I can definitely see where this might apply. Personally, FFXI is a hobby. MMOs in general are a hobby for me. While I enjoy playing, and I do play a lot, I am not exactly addicted. If I had to up and quit today, I could, and would, and I wouldn't look back.

Well, maybe I'd look back a little bit. I'd really miss the people I played with, but I wouldn't miss the game itself.

This year has kind of sucked for me. Actually, the past three have. So FFXI is a bit of an escape. I totally admit to that. But that doesn't mean that I don't know what place it has in my life.

[DieselBoy09]

Re: Stockholme Syndrom vs MMORPGs and other addictions

I don't think the two can really be compared. One is high stress and almost forceful, while playing the game is completely our decision. As for an addiction, yes, this game can most certainly be. As for a captor..... Unless you're a rmt, I don't think you would voluntarily foot the bill each month to remain in the "capturing" environment of ffxi, although, the rmt workers might be able to have the syndrome, but less in relation to the game and more so in relation to their employers.

[Caspian]

Re: Stockholme Syndrom vs MMORPGs and other addictions

Hmmm, I do see where you get the relationships from, and they do make sense. I don't know however how close exactly they correlate. I'm not sure if its a determining circumstance of Stockholm syndrome, but I would think in a hostage situation, that your captors are not something you have fond feelings for when things first start out. That and a hostage situation is always a bad thing. But with an MMO, the game in and of itself is not. Game addiction is definately a problem for many people, but one of the problems with addictions in general is that you justify in your mind that its not a big deal, that you can quit whenever you want. And when you decide to quit, you keep trying to make excuses in your mind that you shouldn't quit, that you can do it a few more times and quit then.
Basically, I'm not sure that a game addiction and Stockholm syndrome are hand in hand, but rather two different things that describe the same symptoms in different circumstances.
I hope that makes sense. They definately have a lot in common though.

[Oogami]

Re: Stockholme Syndrom vs MMORPGs and other addictions

What is "normal" is going to be relative.

Spending 6 hours in front of a computer is "not normal", but what if it was spent in front of the TV? How about 6 hours in a gym?

In 20 years time, you might be the "abnormal" one if you are not spending at least 6 hours a day infront of a computer.

I feel that attachments in an MMORPG arises from the investment of effort, as perceived by the player. If it only takes 1 day to get level 75 in FFXI, I don't think the player be very attached to the character. Nothing at all like the syndrome.

[Balfree]

Re: Stockholme Syndrom vs MMORPGs and other addictions

What is "normal" is going to be relative.

Quoted for emphasis

Doesnt take much to identify an addict, this is the basis of addiction: denial, and acceptance, and to adapt and adjust to a situation so that it becomes less of a worry for you, like making up excuses to "fool" yourself like caspian said.

Soon enough sitting in front of a computer for 6 hours will mean nothing, to many people its a normal thing, the main problem is that this "revolution" is still very young, and were probably gonna witness the turn point. I say this because i play like 1-2 hours if even per day, after work. And i spend about 9-10 hours in front of a computer at work, save for a couple hours when im taking a break or whatever, when its work its totally acceptable, isnt it? And that's why i chose a job where it is not considered crazy, nor will i have to worry about that sort of thing, because i've accepted thats my way of life, is this denial? i do not believe it is, but probably acceptance of a reality that i know is not healthy, but its what i chose to do at some point in my life. I still have strong friendships and relationships outside the game and work, i go out every once in a while, i try to go to places with friends, and i will skip the game and work if i feel its getting to a point where i cant grip my real life, the thing that worries me is that i feel like that most of the time, so i try to enjoy those moments outside like they were the last, because it keeps me sane that way.

Ask every smoker out there if they know that smoking is bad for them, most will say they know it can cause a bunch of problems for their health, its still ok though, smoking gives them more than just black lungs, it calms you down, and its pretty cool too, cos everyone's doin it! (not my opinion, though, i dont smoke)

[Karinya]

Re: Stockholme Syndrom vs MMORPGs and other addictions

All of the same points you can make about MMORPGs you can also make about religions; many people pay to stay in that fantasy-world, too. And religions usually don't look "normal" to people who aren't already in them, either.
The difference is that MMORPGs acknowledge boundaries - almost all players know that they can't cast Reraise and then do something dangerous in real life - but religious believers often *really believe* that they won't really die but just go to some better place. (A conviction that has tragic results when they sacrifice themselves for a greater cause by crashing airliners into large buildings, etc.)
A lot of anti-addiction programs are run on religious lines (e.g. 12-Step) and themselves become an addiction - a lot of the people in them have addiction-prone personalities or they wouldn't be there in the first place.
...I'm not exactly sure if that is a defense of MMORPGs or an attack on religions, or maybe some of both, but it seems that they have a lot in common psychologically. Personally, I think the ability to see the boundary between the fantasy-world and reality is important.

[Oogami]

Re: Stockholme Syndrom vs MMORPGs and other addictions

Addiction in general (to whatever), has the same general pattern. And of course, this is a general statement. There are still the distinction between physicological and physical addiction (among other things).

Basically, addiction works to fulfill 'perceived' needs that have arisen from 'real' needs. When the 'real' need involves other human beings or other uncontrollable factors, it is not going to be that easy to appease. E.g. people who turn to comfort food, while what they really need is something else - like affection perhaps. The easiest way to "correct" an addiction, is to try to shift the focus of addiction to something that is deemed "more productive". But the addiction is, and will remain there until the need that causes it is fulfilled. (It may not go away even then). What are workaholics but people who are addicted to work?

I think I am pretty "addicted" to the internet in general. However, I also noticed that the amount of time I use to watch TV and play console based games has gone down drastically (only 1-2 hours a week now). As for gaming? Online games is more than just a game. It is a place to socialize, with people from different countries if you're "lucky" enough. I have a real life carpenter, and goldsmith in my LS. People that I would not have the chance to interact normally in real life (and they are from Japan too). People go to pubs to do the same thing. I am just doing it from the comfort of my home, at a lower cost.

[Aeni]

Re: Stockholme Syndrom vs MMORPGs and other addictions

I agree with Oogami here. Some people are in denial that they need help to focus on where their attention should be placed on. Instead, they use games like FFXI as their main focal point in their life. However, when the real issues need to be addressed (If they get confronted with it) many players will lash out, saying things like they're not addicted and that what they do with their time is their choice.

I say, that is true, but at the same time, if you're not addressing the real issues in your life, then you are merely running away from your problems and not confronting them as you should.

[DakAttack]

Re: Stockholme Syndrom vs MMORPGs and other addictions

Basically, I'm not sure that a game addiction and Stockholm syndrome are hand in hand, but rather two different things that describe the same symptoms in different circumstances.
I hope that makes sense. They definately have a lot in common though.

This makes sene to me. I thought about it a lot for the past few days, and it does seem very similar when compared in a strictly mental light but they are differentiated by their circumstances.

What is "normal" is going to be relative.

Spending 6 hours in front of a computer is "not normal", but what if it was spent in front of the TV? How about 6 hours in a gym?

In 20 years time, you might be the "abnormal" one if you are not spending at least 6 hours a day infront of a computer.

I feel that attachments in an MMORPG arises from the investment of effort, as perceived by the player. If it only takes 1 day to get level 75 in FFXI, I don't think the player be very attached to the character. Nothing at all like the syndrome.

No offense, but you really sound like you're trying to rationalize your addiction. Arguing about the relativity of norms is going to take a lot more effort than simply calling it relative.

There's a lot of stuff we do in life that eventually lead up to a larger accomplishment, but we don't spend six hours every day sitting infront of a computer emptying bottles of Bawls to do it. Most accomplishments definately don't take place in a fantasy world either. How many people wouldn't want to be doing something more productive either? Unless you're selling your account, obtaining a level seventy-five character at the sacrafice of your social life isn't very productive. This is why I see the game as a sort of captor.

[Murphie]

Re: Stockholme Syndrom vs MMORPGs and other addictions

Good point, Dak, but what constitutes "sacrificing your social life" varies for some people. Some folks have a lot of time on their hands. Some people considerably less. Sure, there are a lot of things that those individuals with a lot of time could be doing that would be more productive, that's their call to make, not ours. If I can manage to play several hours a week and still maintain a successful social and professional life, then that is what works for me. On the other hand, if everything else is suffering because of my time with the game, then that's when it's an issue. But once again, only for me. It's not anyone else's place to judge how I spent my personal time.

[Macht]

Re: Stockholme Syndrom vs MMORPGs and other addictions

Well not much I can say here. My background and upbringing has me seeing physcological evaluations as being a HUGE load of BS.

To add though this is nothing like the Stockholm syndrome. In that the missed logic is the Stockholm syndrome you are being forced and controlled, it's very apparent and little you can do to control the situation. The closest that this syndrom exists for MMORPGs really is a player enjoying the game yet to progress are forced to play in a way they did not want to. For example of FFXI as I'm starting to see WAR Main being forced to play NIN sub if they want to advance. RNG Main being forced to play NIN sub in order to advance. PLD being forced to play WAR sub in order to advance.

Then you start seeing players love for that sub and start feeling simpathy for it and all that BS. Then you also people who start to hate that sub with great passion. In essence this syndrome is people finding comfort when being forced to conform to something they don't want.

Key identifier it was something they didn't want, an omissive act done against them intentionally and the resulting need of having to justify the reason why. So bad it is that even knowing another make-up may be better they'll refuse it with every fiber of their being because then their justification of the omission done to them can't hold itself as truth.

[DakAttack]

Re: Stockholme Syndrom vs MMORPGs and other addictions

Good point, Dak, but what constitutes "sacrificing your social life" varies for some people. Some folks have a lot of time on their hands. Some people considerably less. Sure, there are a lot of things that those individuals with a lot of time could be doing that would be more productive, that's their call to make, not ours. If I can manage to play several hours a week and still maintain a successful social and professional life, then that is what works for me. On the other hand, if everything else is suffering because of my time with the game, then that's when it's an issue. But once again, only for me. It's not anyone else's place to judge how I spent my personal time.

I think we all have the same amount of time on our hands, unless somebody is cheating. I see time as a long balloon, where if we cut down on time in one area we can increase time in another, just as if we were to squeeze the balloon in one area and it increases in size in another. Conversely, if we restrict time in one area we might be wasting more time in another.

I'm sure you already know all of that, so to move onto my point there's no healthy way you can balance a normal social life and sitting at the computer playing games. That right there's cutting out excersise, and working a job. You can of course combine two of them, but I don't think dominating your time at a computer is healthy any way you slice it.

Macht, I don't think you're making the connection I'm aiming for. Of course video games are just a bunch of 1s and 0s that we might happen to enjoy spending our time with, but eventually it becomes the captor whether we know it or not. I suppose unlike Stockholm Syndrome, here the captor exists solely in our minds. The game isn't chaining us down, or yelling at us, or holding a gun to our head. We're doing all that to ourselves for the sake of playing the game. That's where the similarities begin.

I'd like to apologize in advance if I come off sounded like a snob or anything. I'm not implying anybody here is wasting their time, is unhealthy, or has an addiction. I do know that a lot of kids form these addictions all too easily and never realize it until it's too late, and that used to be me. This is just my examination of what the games have done to me, and anything I learn from it can help me in the future.

[Murphie]

Re: Stockholme Syndrom vs MMORPGs and other addictions

There are only 24 hours in any day, that's true. Most people will sleep for 6-8 of those, work for about 8 or so, and then have another 8 to do with as they please. Playing a video game during some of that time doesn't automatically mean that you fail at life.

It's entirely possible to have an active social life, work out, and still spend some time on your hobby, whatever that may be.

[little ninja]

Re: Stockholme Syndrom vs MMORPGs and other addictions

Lol there was a yahoo video about gaming being as addictive as drugs. an after hearing a story about a kid who spent his nights at a place playing video games, just to come home an play them even more. i think the story said he went from 6 til closing, then came home an played til morning. When asked the kid said he could quit whenever he wanted to. when asked, he said naa i dont want to lol.

Honestly i think MMORPG's is the whole reason why this game is so addicting. for the sole reason that you are basically always in competion. u gotta get this lvl first, gotta get that item first. We race to 75, commit insane amount of time to get that armor. scared that if we miss a day we will get left behind, get looked over for certain gear, or miss certain gears dropping.

If this was just a console game, wed have moved on by now. the fact its mmo we cant. I took some time off an even though i was very busy, i still had urges to play, now that im back, im not to into it. lol