What games are you currently playing?

[Yellow Mage]

Re: What games are you currently playing?

He had absolutely no relevance to main story though. Once Ashe joins the party it's entirely about her with the others having some halfway decent sub plots.At least in FFX they did a very good job of splitting it between Tidus and Yuna. Ashe on the other hand basically shoves Vaan off-stage for the duration of the game.

Given

Vaan himself isn't even likable.

shouldn't you view his being "shoved off-stage" as a good thing?

[Firewind]

Re: What games are you currently playing?

Ashe and Basch were supposed to be the main characters. it's just that SE thought that the main target audience for FFXI would not accept having a 30-something Dark Knight or a Female Rebel Leader being the main character and wanted to have a teenage boy that the playerbase "could relate to" despite the fact that the average age of a Final Fantasy player is somewhere in the mid-20's to early 30's...

Bioware didn't rip-off the Gambit system, they inspired it. Queued actions from AI party members have almost always been the way of things in their RPGs. FFXII's gambit system just has far more extensive, programmable AI routines and they left it to players to decide what's best. Bioware's just follows a certain number of presets.

In Knights 9f the old Republic, you could decide a basic AI routine for them and jump in to later influence it, not unlike how we do it in FFXIi.

I never played Knights of the Old Republic, I have never owned an XBox and didn't have a gaming PC when those game came out.

The reason why I dislike the system how it is used on DA:O is because if you took control of an AI controlled party member to interupt thier gambits by say, casting an emergency cure, they would immediately go back to what they were doing. on DO:A they stand around doing nothing for the rest of the battle until you actually give them an order even if they have a tactic at the top of the priority list that says "Auto-attack whatever the PC is attacking".

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What games are you currently playing?

He had absolutely no relevance to main story though. Once Ashe joins the party it's entirely about her with the others having some halfway decent sub plots.At least in FFX they did a very good job of splitting it between Tidus and Yuna. Ashe on the other hand basically shoves Vaan off-stage for the duration of the game.

No, once Tidus joined the guardians, it was mostly Yuna's show. Tidus' daddy issues weren't even fleshed out in FFX as well as they had been in Dissidia. Sad fact, but true. I can really only appreciate Tidus now because of what he got to say about his father in Dissidia. His frustration was deeper than what FFX revealed.

Vaan is important to FFXII like Raiden was important to MGS2 - someone has to the be the pawn. Vaan is the player's anchor. He lost a brother in this war, just as Ashe lost her husband. It is in fact they both lost someone important that gives them something in common.

Vaan also had every reason to want to kill Gabranth and the fact that he didn't exact the revenge he had craved to take out on Basch initially was important to both Basch and Ashe.

From Vaan's viewpoint, taking Gabranth's life would be taking the life of Basch's brother. He'd be no better than Gabranth for murdering Reks. And here's Ashe thirsting for even greater vengence upon the empire, Vaan giving up his shot at revenge was something she really needed to see.

And before that we have Cid and Balthier. Cid has become twisted by his desire for revenge upon the gods, blind even to the destruction of his relationship with his own son. He has been manipulated by Venat in the same fashion the Occurians are trying to manipulate Ashe, a slave to the power of Nethicite.

"Good" or "Evil" the Occurians and their dissenters want Humes dependant on the power of Nethicite and as such, dependent on them for guidance. All this so they can be seen as gods.

Honor is also a tremendous theme from within the game. Gabranth knows he did wrong, he regrets it and eventually wants to put things right. His duty to protect Larsa is what redeemed him and Larsa was also tremendously important in putting human face on the Evil Empire. When he died to protect Larsa, he more or less atoned for the death of Reks. Vaan didn't feel hate for him at that point.

Why anyone in FFXII can be the main character is because each of their lives is affected by the same common thread. Ashe and Vaan lie at the center of it, but everyone is affected by what they face. Even someone as outside of all of this like Fran is affected. She accepted exile from her people in order to protect them.

[Firewind]

Re: What games are you currently playing?

Wasn't Tidus supposed to be more like the observer type character anyway (which is why he narrates instead of Yuna)? What I mean is while he isn't as central to the game as say Yuna, he is vitally important to the plot (which you don't find out until later because the Fayth don't tell you anything until the last third of the game) and is both the narrator and the player's avatar, but because all the attention is on Yuna she does seem more like the main protagonist. Sort of like on Persona 4 where Yosuke is pretty much the central character while MC plays the (literal) quiet observer (other than suggesting the group's direction to Yosuke when the plot demends it) as far as the cast goes until about the point Naoto comes into the picture and involves the MC a lot more with the plot.

Yes I am bad at explaining things like this

[Malacite]

Re: What games are you currently playing?

shouldn't you view his being "shoved off-stage" as a good thing?

Yes and no.

Yes, because I hate Vaan. No, because you don't use a freaking exrtra as the main character!!! That's just bad writing. > _ <


While the majority of 10's story may have been about Yuna, Tidus did still actually matter. More importantly, he took center stage quite often, even when it was something about Yuna. Vaan doesn't even do that much. He just more or less fades into the background, and most if not everything he does beyond the point where you recruit Basch and/or Ashe can just be substituted for anyone else, and the plot wouldn't change. He's the most poorly written character to date, and that's my reason for hating him and 12. I'm really hoping 13 does a better job splitting up the roles, and that Lightning & the others are all interesting.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What games are you currently playing?

Uh, every subsequent event that took place in the game was because of actions put in motion by Vaan. Had he not snuck into the palace, Bathier and Fran would have made off the the nethecite and left Rabanastre to rot. Had they not run into Vaan, they wouldn't have met Ashe or Basch. Basch woul dbe rotting his cage and Ashe likely killed during the resistance's attack on Vayne in Rabanastre,

Vaan is the guy that brought all these people together. His motive wasn't even to save Rabanastre, he just wanted something he could sell for an airship and get the hell out of there.

The game itself even spoofs Vaan's status as a the main protagonist, because Balthier constantly states he's the leading man. Vaan's just his understudy

So please stop being dense, you have no idea what you're talking about here. Just because the story didn't flow to how you would have written it doesn't mean the story was weak. It just means it wasn't predictable, which is a GOOD thing.

[Feba]

Re: What games are you currently playing?

He's the most poorly written character to date,

No, that would be Kimahri.

[Tickmeoff]

Re: What games are you currently playing?

So, Age of Conan came in earlier this week and I have been having a go at it for a few days. I'm actually enjoying it quite a bit, the combat is interesting and a pretty refreshing change from standard MMO combat.

Seems like Funcom pretty much disregarded the fact that ATI exists though. I am getting 30-35 FPS max and I have run far more graphically intensive games at 60+ FPS. I looked it up on their forums and it seems they just did not do much to support ATI cards and Crossfire. Sucks, and hopefully there is an eventual fix, but 30-35 FPS is playable for now.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: What games are you currently playing?

No, that would be Seymour.

I actually thought Kimahri was cool . . .

[Firewind]

Re: What games are you currently playing?

No, that would be Beatrice.

And I the only one who was dissapointed that Sephiroth didn't sound like Seymour when Kingdom Hearts and Advent Children came out?

[Malacite]

Re: What games are you currently playing?

Uh, every subsequent event that took place in the game was because of actions put in motion by Vaan. Had he not snuck into the palace, Bathier and Fran would have made off the the nethecite and left Rabanastre to rot. Had they not run into Vaan, they wouldn't have met Ashe or Basch. Basch woul dbe rotting his cage and Ashe likely killed during the resistance's attack on Vayne in Rabanastre,

Vaan is the guy that brought all these people together. His motive wasn't even to save Rabanastre, he just wanted something he could sell for an airship and get the hell out of there.

I said after Ashe joins the party (and I don't mean as Amalia). Yeah the game does a decent job of focusing on him early on, but then he's pretty much cast aside as Ashe takes center-stage and I didn't really care for that especially given how piss poor Ashe's story turned out in the end. Thank goodness for Larsa & Balthier.

[Feba]

Re: What games are you currently playing?

I actually thought Kimahri was cool . . .

Seymour was great, actually. He was pretty much the Mirror-World version of Tidus: he didn't actually matter at all to the Sin plot, except as a diversion, but characteristically, he reflects a lot of how Tidus could be.

[Mezlo]

Re: What games are you currently playing?

Dog Fight from:
OnlyTuesday - Bored at Work - Waste some Time

it's a fun game that gets through websence. I can't get passed level 18, the escort one...

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What games are you currently playing?

I said after Ashe joins the party (and I don't mean as Amalia). Yeah the game does a decent job of focusing on him early on, but then he's pretty much cast aside as Ashe takes center-stage and I didn't really care for that especially given how piss poor Ashe's story turned out in the end. Thank goodness for Larsa & Balthier.

What you mean by "piss poor" would be that she doesn't get the "happily ever after" you were wanting to see. In the end she's a lonely ruler that has to distance herself from those that helped her reclaim the throne. She has to live out part of a lie or her rule could be seen as sham, a power grab.

Part of a lie the Empire started had to be maintained. Basch goes down in history as a traitor. And dead, to boot. If he doesn't, Ashe's ascendancy to the throne looks extremely questionable since Basch helped her there. People could buy that stories of her suicide were used to go into hiding until she and Ondore are able to assemble the assistance they need to fight back the Empire.

But would they accept Basch as part of this? Just look how everyone in the party initially took to him. Even they thought he did it initially. While he might have redeemed himself to them, it would be much harder for him to do that for the world. So he goes down in history the villain and Gabranth instead gets to be a hero. He assumes the identity of Gabranth not just to honor his brother's dying wish, its kind of necessary to make everything stick the way our heroes need it to.

But isn't that sort of parallel to what we see happen with Ramza in FFT? He doesn't even get to go down as something notable as Basch. Its Delita that gets all the glory. The bigger stories in Invalice always delve into the truth behind its history. They're not presented as fairy tales with happily ever afters. Ondore ends up getting to write the history of this period and he's our narrator, but he's not one to tell the whole truth of anything.

[Ziero]

Re: What games are you currently playing?

I'm back on Demon's Souls, and I'm trying to get some co-op in with a friend.

I had an all-around character last time, so I could handle anything, but this time I'm going pure melee. I'm trying to decide which weapons I want to use, and how I want to spend my colorless demon souls. Using a normal long sword is pretty much the easiest way to do it, due to its flexibility, but I'd like to give large weapons a try. They're slow, but they certainly look cool, and they're pretty effective in large spaces to boot. Of course they're useless in small spaces, but they also give up the ability to parry, riposte, and back-stab, all of which I'm attempting to master and each of which is proving to be rather challenging. I think they both may be useful in different situations. Critical hits don't work on bosses, so a weapon that couldn't do that in the first place wouldn't set me back. Most large weapons are also slashing, which should give me ample opportunity to hit the bosses. I tried a spear once, and it didn't turn out too well because spears have a very narrow thrust. Its easy to miss with.

I'm pretty much going through the game with a Crushing Claymore and the Dragon Long Sword, as they seem to be able to take out pretty much anything. The only time I really use anything else is for PvP (still haven't found a decent weapon combo) or skeletons (Great Club two shots most of them, even Black and Gold ones). Since this game has a similar weapon type system to FFXI though, sometimes it is better to use spears on things while clubbing other monsters.

And btw, you can back stab with bigger weapons. It's fairly brutal looking to backstab something with a great club.