Showbiz Tonight - Videogame Harassing

[Reze]

HAMMER: Tonight, in a "Showbiz Newsmaker Interview," a controversial video game in which players kill police officers, which has some people in law enforcement calling for a boycott of the game. "25 to Life" is its name. It lets players assume the role of drug dealers, criminals and thugs, who are able to shoot police officers at will.

Joining me live from Washington, D.C. Craig W. Floyd. He`s the chairman of the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund.

Craig, thanks for being with us tonight.

CRAIG W. FLOYD, CHAIRMAN, NATIONAL LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS MEMORIAL FUND: Good to be with you, A.J.

HAMMER: I do want to point out, we did invite Eidos -- that`s the manufacturer of this game -- to join us. They declined, but they did point out to us that the game is not intended for kids, it`s not marketed for kids, and is, in fact, intended for adults. So what is the problem that you guys have with it?

FLOYD: Well, our message is really quite simple. You should never glorify violent acts and killing police officers, plain and simple. On average in this country, we`re loosing one police officer in the line of duty every 53 hours. An over the last 10 years alone, there have been 54 cop killers under the age of 18.

I think you look last week in Ft. Lauderdale, when we saw those scenes of young teenagers beating homeless people over the head with baseball bats, tells us that there are young people who are easily impressionable, who are prone to violence. They don`t need any further encouragement, and this game, "25 to Life," appears to be the worst of the worst.

HAMMER: And in the game, you are offered the chance to either play a thug or play a police officer, so it does give people that kind of a choice. But what you`re saying is that the problem is not necessarily the violence specifically against police officers that you guys have, it`s violence in general?

FLOYD: Violence in general. I mean, if you take the role of the police officer in this came, you`re going to be killing gangsters, all right? The average police officer will go their entire career without ever having to fire their weapon at a criminal suspect. In New York City, you`d have to serve 694 years before you ever shot a criminal suspect, on average.

Police do not use force normally to do their job. And I think this game helps to feed that stereotype that police officers are out there committing violent acts against the citizens of our nation.

HAMMER: And, Craig...

FLOYD: And that`s not true.

HAMMER: ... we`ve seen it before. There was the similar controversy in the "Grand Theft Auto" games. One of the problems that happens though is here we are talking about it and we`re bringing more attention to the game than perhaps if it wasn`t in the news. Are you fearing that that maybe the case here, because you`re calling for this boycott, it`s going to get lots and lots of attention?

FLOYD: Not at all. The video gamers who want this game are going to find ways to get it no matter how old they are. Our message is directed at responsible parents who care about how they raise their kids and want their kids to grow up with good values, of right and wrong. Also, the retailers out there that are responsible and who don`t want to have games that glorify the killing of police officers on their shelves.

And if you`re one of those responsible parents out there or one of those retailers, go to our Web site at www.nationalpolicememorial.com, and sign our petition protesting this very violent game.

HAMMER: Craig W. Floyd`s from the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund. I want to thank you for joining us tonight.

FLOYD: Thank you.

HAMMER: The game`s maker, Eidos, did provide SHOWBIZ TONIGHT with this statement: "`25 to Life` was specifically created for adults, as the average age of gamers is currently 30 years old. `25 to Life` will have an ESRB rating of M for mature. And it will be marketed and distributed only to those over the age of 17."

All of this leads us to our SHOWBIZ TONIGHT "Question of the Day." We`re asking: Cop-killer video games: Should they be banned?

Keep voting at CNN.com/showbiztonight or write showbiztonight@CNN.com. Your e-mails at 55 past the hour.
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It's not often that I'd post something like this. And I'm not defending 25 to Life either. But listening to an old guy broadcast his load of garbage to millions of people across the US just got to me. Please, write Showbiz, and sign that site's guestbook. You know? I'm sorry that people have died- but in no way could it be the fault of a game.

Parents are just as gullible as children. They'll see this and think their kids are playing killing-simulators.

Unfortunately the problem lies within the parents. It always does. Did they even have parents? Anyone with a reasonable mom and dad would know the path between right and wrong. Uh... they wouldn't kill a cop. I know alot of people are born into unfortunate lives- its their job to make something of themselves. And yet, rather than spending our time and resources to help people who have bad parents, or teaching GOOD parenting skills, we're trying to ban a video game.

Don't let the government raise your children.

You have a child, its your job to raise it. Not the government's. Do your own censorship, KNOW what your child is playing and BE involved in your child's life. Don't have time? MAKE time. It's your child, your responsibility.

What gets me... is that they mention GTA. I mean, it's sold millions of copies. It's like saying my son saw Star Wars, he killed a cop. He killed a cop because they kill people in Star Wars! ...or any other movie that's moderately popular.

In short, write showbiztonight@cnn.com

Vote at www.cnn.com/showbiz

Post at www.nationalpolicememorial.com

Keep it reasonable, no language. But express concern.

[Sevv]

Re: Showbiz Tonight - Videogame Harassing

sooo true

[PotentPotables]

Re: Showbiz Tonight - Videogame Harassing

I have no opinion either way. I hate Video Games, computers, and all forms of electronics ever since I saw Terminator. That's why I stockpile the things I do. >.> NO PEEKING!

[Crode]

Re: Showbiz Tonight - Videogame Harassing

I hate things like this! Video games don't turn kids into killers. I play gta (3 - San Andreas) and my favorite weapon is the sniper rifle, i don't have any urge what so ever to go and do the things I do in game in real life. Its pointless to argue things like this, imo, because all most every kid in the US has some sort of Video Game System, or have friends that have atleast one. Now say for instance a kid does kill someone, the kids backround is checked and they see that he has a PS2 and GTA: 3. Well so what, so do a million other kids. What I'm trying to say is that with so many kids having gameing systems it isn't impossible for a child with a mental problem to posess one or play one. I mean the child would have to be very messed up mentaly to go out and kill someone because of a Video Game, a form of entertainment, ment to be only that entertainment. *sorry for rant but this topic really pushes my buttons and i could go all day with this, but im almost out of lunch time.*

[Macht]

Re: Showbiz Tonight - Videogame Harassing

Yeah, those news reports are annoying as hell. They've still yet to give any serious tangible proof of their statements, all they provide is shotty statistics that prove nothing either way.

I mean the guys said in the past 10 years they had 54 cop killers under 18. That 5.4 a year 0.45 a month. With what 200 million people in the US? The number of cop killers to good citizens ends up being 0.000000225% not even a whole freaking 1%!

It would be even more persuasive if it was 0.01%, then if he goes to say that from 1986-1996 there were only 35 or so. Ok calculate that out between that time population was probably what 100 million, comes out to being 0.0000002916~%. Hah, even if I were to say that the number of cop killers were 27 (half of 54) considering what the population was back then it still only comes to 0.000000225%.

There is nothing of real tangible proof, it's just people grieving for a loss and wanting something to blame. Feel sorry for anyone that would be grieving but honestly the instant you try to make rhyme or reason to a senseless act is were you should really stop.

[DrivenTooFar]

Re: Showbiz Tonight - Videogame Harassing

Wow, another video game coming up that is going to stir up contriversy. Like most of you out there, this makes me sick as well.

First off, I hate how they always say that playing these violent games will lead to young people wanting to copy these acts of violence. That has got to be the biggest load of horseshit I've ever heard. There is no concrete proof that this happens and I bet if we take a poll on this site on how many of us commited murder after playing any shooting game it would probably we less than 1% (just for the error margin). I played these games as a minor and I even let my young daughter play because I know that this will not lead to anything bad.

Games alone do not influence people; It's all chalked up to society. Sure video games are a part of society but just a small part of it. There are many other factors but no one seems to care about them. What about children killing cops before games? or T.V.? Music?

What it comes down to is some asshole doesn't like something and instead of ignoring it they lead a crusade to get it shut down, only careing about themselves and stomping on everyone else. We see it happen all the time. I listen to Howard Stern on Satalite Radio, which before he came on no one gave a crap about but now they want to regualte satalite. I know it's a different topic but it's the same basic thing.

The problem is that people want to feel like they're making a difference. Since no one can solve important things like the war in Iraq, world hunger, etc..., they want to solve something that seems like a problem but more easy to beat. If the government focused more time on important issues we would be a better place but unfortunatly we never have a good pool of canidates to vote for so we are left with udder stupidity.

I bet another cause of this is people that are geared towards the religous right. Now I'm not anti-religion but we've seen these people meddle in violence issues like this before. Of course this makes me laugh seeing as religous people were some of the most violent in history, useing war as an excuse to get anything they wanted or to fight for what their God wanted, as you can see is what is happening today.

Well I may have strayed a little so I'll end this post saying this: should these games be banned? That would be a big HELL NO! Sure, I respect cops and everything they do but I bet there are a bunch of cops that play GTA and aren't phased by it. It really just comes down to people with there own agenda, thinking they can protect us by making our decisions. So I agree with the OP, make time for your kids and lead them on the right path so we don't have to keep hearing this crap.

It's just entertainment, not police killing simulators.

[DakAttack]

Re: Showbiz Tonight - Videogame Harassing

First I'd like to ask, if it isn't video games that turn kids violent, what is it?

Have any of you actually spent time around children? They're overly impressionable. I worked with under privlidged children for four years during high school and earned over 400 student service learning hours with them. This was when violent video games began their ascension in the media. Basically these kids hold different people in different respects, and whomever they hold in the highest repsect they're willing to believe the most. This can be worked around by continuously feeding the kids the same pieces of information over and over and over, which is exactly what video games do. You have to face it, not everybody in this world is even half intellegent.

You have to be narrowminded if you believe video games aren't to blame. All forms of media are to blame; television, movies, video games, music; as well as poor parenting. I think most of you feel that they're placing the blame solely on video games when they're not. They've already covered the bad parenting angle enough and bad parents will always be bad parents; they're attempting to stop this at a different source now. I'm sure most of you are affected by video games more than you actually know it.

The repetitive games force kids to memorize certain basic [sets of] sequences of actions that they can apply to any given situation. Of course older kids know how to differentiate between real and virtual situations, but the immature mind of child will easily blur the boundries. A kid can play a video game where the police are the bad guys, be force fed a skewed view of law enforcement by their disgruntled parents, and watch Fox giving them their own angles on their news stories and get real messed up real quickly. Not only that but older kids who've also had the same skewed views retold to them countless times can reinforce the mentality.

If any of you ever have children, you have to be there 24/7 involved in everything they do. You can not trust every single child to be on their best behavior at all times. Parents are the number one role model for children, and if they're not the role model position falls on something/some one else. Television, video games, neighborhood kids, whatever else they have available to them they'll turn it into a role model. They're like wet clay continuously losing shape until they're dry enough to hold themselves together.

These games shouldn't have to be banned, they shouldn't have been made in the first place. We don't need game developers bungling up our future just to make a quick buck, which goes for music as well.

[Macht]

Re: Showbiz Tonight - Videogame Harassing

Impaction, I know they aren't just focusing on video games and blaming it. They focusing on the whole idea that the child sees/hears violence (in movies, games, music, etc..) so thinks it to be ok and also turns to violent acts. Banning or trying to shelter from it is just the stupidest thing possible I think.

The best thing is if the parents would quit trying to be the childs best friend and just be the damn parents they are suppose to be. Like you have said though they've done that angle to death as much as they have to blame the media for it.

I still just think they are going in completly the wrong method for this, you know they'll be blowing tons of money for this. I still think the best path is to educate and for people to not being alienating games of this nature. I think the best is just to educate the children from parents and school, but our country is crappy at doing that they have states struggling just to keep teachers because of such piss poor wages they get. Ofcourse also the bad parents everyone wonders how the hell the child could still be allowed to live with them.

[Omni]

Re: Showbiz Tonight - Videogame Harassing

.

The best thing is if the parents would quit trying to be the childs best friend and just be the damn parents they are suppose to be. Like you have said though they've done that angle to death as much as they have to blame the media for it.

parents. mentors. teachers. improve these, and you wont have kids shooting kids.
media surely doesnt help the situation, but they are not the reason why kids do these things. sure, they get the idea perhaps but thats not where it starts. it starts where they are unable to discern that this idea is good or bad. thats where things go wrong. theres violence everywhere. the fact that you can determine this is good, this is fake, this is wrong is what needs to be focused on. you can pick up any book at the library and find even more graphic things than in most video games. you dont see people wanting to close libraries down do they? but some parents are so mistakenly adamant about how video game companies corrupt their children. i think, its them that corrupt their children. they let their children have so much freedom, it corrupts them. every parent wants their children to be happy but letting them do wtfever they want is not the way to make them happy. watch your kids. be firm and discipline them. being ur kids 'friend' is NOT what you should be doing as macht said. be a friggin parent already.

[Reze]

Re: Showbiz Tonight - Videogame Harassing

First I'd like to ask, if it isn't video games that turn kids violent, what is it?

Have any of you actually spent time around children?

Indeed, I have. It's not solely music, TV, television, videogames that's causing so much trouble. It's a combination of multiple things, and the most influential problem that actually causes problems is parenting.

I've been fed the same redundent information you claim video games give since I was 4 or 5. I listen to music. I watch movies. I am well aware of what goes on in all forms of media, and regardless of age I was able to tell RIGHT from WRONG inside media. Why? Because I had good parents.

I aided for a regular class in highschool my senior year. This defines exactly what I am talking about. Our school was divided by regular, honors, advanced, and AP level students. AP level students are silent in class, do their work- very demanding work, have intellectual conversations with the teachers. Advanced kids are the same, just not at a college class level. Honors kids are just run of the mill kids who don't want to do what's expected of them, so they're in an easier class. Regular kids however, are disruptive. They never quiet down. They disrespect the teacher- and disrespect authority. Why?

Probably because their parents don't give a damn about them. Do you have any idea what some kid's family life is like? Some don't even have a family. Or don't know their dad. Or their parents are working all the time because they can't find a stable career. Some parents care but just don't have the time. They have no desire to learn, or make anything better of themselves. Just goofing off and talking about whatever they're interested in, be it, music, video games or movies.

Because they're in a group of people who are all disruptive, they'll continue to act that way. I guarantee you if you stuck a regular kid in an AP class- he probably wouldn't understand what was going on, but he would definately shut his mouth. People don't necessarily like to be looked down upon. They want to fit in. If we can convince kids of what the actual 'norms' of life, society, and such are before they see the negative aspects of it, we can assume that they have just morals and will turn out to be okay. But if we don't teach them right and wrong, they'll just take the lazy, easy, disrespective path of disobedience and sitting on their ass.

This doesn't put media to blame. It puts parents to blame. If you have good values, you don't let media dictate your life. Unfortunately, it dictates alot more people's lives than it should. Less and less people are making decisions for themselves. There was a commercial I saw recently that said something along the lines of, 'don't let people make you. You are your own person, be who you want to be.' What a good commercial. Same thing goes for media, media doesn't make the person, the person makes the person. And it's up to parents to get their children safely to the point in life where they can look at things from two perspectives, weigh the outcomes of each, and make their own decisions.

If you or your kids decide to pick up a gun and kill an officer- I'm sorry, I'm not going to let you blame it on a game.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Showbiz Tonight - Videogame Harassing

First staying on the topic of what the OP posted, yes they are targeting solely video games. They aren't calling for a boycott on movies/tv shows that show violence against police officers are they? Nope! And lets see....how many movies/tv shows fit that bill and how many video games do? Oh ya WAY more movies/tv shows do than games! But never has there been a boycott against movies/tv shows involving this subject, why? Because its ok to see REAL people being shot up and beaten with very realistic blood and gore than it is to see a cartoony character. Ya, ok, that makes sense. They will earn my support as soon as they start boycotts against ALL forms of media but until then they can forget it.

As has already been stated, video games do NOT make people do anything. There are many other factors in a persons life that causes them to act out in a deplorable manner. We are all responsible for our own actions and kids under the age of 18 also have parents that are responsible for their actions. That's the bottom line. If a parent buys a M rated game for someone under 17 when its clearly labeled telling them not to, who's to blame for that? When a parent just lets a kid plunk down and play a violent video game without watching it and talking to them about it, who's to blame?

Parents have a HUGE responsibility and many of them slack off. I raised two gaming children. They had a bedtime, homework after school, chores, time limits on how long they could be at their friend, they were checked up on while they were out, and they earned their time to play games by bringing in good grades and doing what they were told around the house. Thats called structure. We give our children boundaries that we stick to in order to guide them down the straight path. Out of both of my kids, I only had one serious issue with my son. He is very good with computers and would get around the schools monitoring software so that he could play games online and read his email. Nearly got him suspended! >.< But thats it, and all the while they grew up they gamed and some games were violent. (My son was a HUGE Counterstrike guy...well I should say is.) They knew right from wrong and moral from immoral regardless of playing violent games. Because they had parents that cared and did their job.

[Omni]

Re: Showbiz Tonight - Videogame Harassing

Parents have a HUGE responsibility and many of them slack off. I raised two gaming children. They had a bedtime, homework after school, chores, time limits on how long they could be at their friend, they were checked up on while they were out, and they earned their time to play games by bringing in good grades and doing what they were told around the house. Thats called structure. We give our children boundaries that we stick to in order to guide them down the straight path. Out of both of my kids, I only had one serious issue with my son. He is very good with computers and would get around the schools monitoring software so that he could play games online and read his email. Nearly got him suspended! >.< But thats it, and all the while they grew up they gamed and some games were violent. (My son was a HUGE Counterstrike guy...well I should say is.) They knew right from wrong and moral from immoral regardless of playing violent games. Because they had parents that cared and did their job.

straight from a mother's mouth. thank you.

[Aeolus]

Re: Showbiz Tonight - Videogame Harassing

I think people need to relise that nothing "makes" these people kill. They are just unstable human beings in one way or another and the right thing can turn or push them over the edge wether it be computer games, TV or film. Anything can set them off, people just alway find the easiest thing to blame it on which is other violent acts. Kid plays game - kills someone its obviously the games fault even tho it was probably something not even related to violence that made him do it.

I agree with TGM in that you could teach your children the rights and wrongs but I think someone is born that way that they could kill someone in cold blood. Not all off us have it in us and I think if theyre givin the oportunity or find it they will do it.

[tdh]

Re: Showbiz Tonight - Videogame Harassing

Parents have a HUGE responsibility and many of them slack off. I raised two gaming children. They had a bedtime, homework after school, chores, time limits on how long they could be at their friend, they were checked up on while they were out, and they earned their time to play games by bringing in good grades and doing what they were told around the house. Thats called structure. We give our children boundaries that we stick to in order to guide them down the straight path. Out of both of my kids, I only had one serious issue with my son. He is very good with computers and would get around the schools monitoring software so that he could play games online and read his email. Nearly got him suspended! >.< But thats it, and all the while they grew up they gamed and some games were violent. (My son was a HUGE Counterstrike guy...well I should say is.) They knew right from wrong and moral from immoral regardless of playing violent games. Because they had parents that cared and did their job.

Thank God for TGM! I was really hoping she'd kick up and say something.

I was actually surprised to see Impaction's comments. I didn't expect that from them having read a lot of their posts. But I still see this:

If any of you ever have children, you have to be there 24/7 involved in everything they do. You can not trust every single child to be on their best behavior at all times. Parents are the number one role model for children, and if they're not the role model position falls on something/some one else. Television, video games, neighborhood kids, whatever else they have available to them they'll turn it into a role model. They're like wet clay continuously losing shape until they're dry enough to hold themselves together.

I agree that kids are wet clay. Everybody has a roll in raising a child. But I can't agree with blaming the "fall back" option.

Because the parents failed, we're now going to boycott and blame video game industry, music industry, TV or movies because the parents failed? This isn't the fault of those various industries. This is the fault of the parents.

Now I won't deny that these various industries don't have an effect on children. However there are rating systems to help parents protect their children. Problem is a lot of these rules are not enforced. As of 2 weeks ago I saw a kid at the movies buy his own ticket for an R Rated movie and the person at the counter didn't ask for ID, or say a word. I know for a fact the EB Games in the mall doesn't ask for any sort of ID for M or AO rated games.

You want something to boycott? Boycott places who do that. Be outraged that the system designed to "Get your back" as a parent isn't being enforced. These are adult games, as adults we know gunning down a cop is wrong. But if you're pulled over by an asshole cop on the way home, going home and running over a few of them in GTA lowers our stress levels. In no way does it mean on the way to work tomorrow, we'll gun down one on the highway.

[Draco Dagon]

Re: Showbiz Tonight - Videogame Harassing

First I'd like to ask, if it isn't video games that turn kids violent, what is it?

Bad parenting skills, bad society... what else must I put out?

Have any of you actually spent time around children?

Yes, I have. Thank you very much.

They're overly impressionable. I worked with under privlidged children for four years during high school and earned over 400 student service learning hours with them. This was when violent video games began their ascension in the media. Basically these kids hold different people in different respects, and whomever they hold in the highest repsect they're willing to believe the most. This can be worked around by continuously feeding the kids the same pieces of information over and over and over, which is exactly what video games do. You have to face it, not everybody in this world is even half intellegent.

Then the parents should be responsible to get their kids the hell off the video games, but they don't-so people like you come around blaming video games.

You have to be narrowminded if you believe video games aren't to blame.

You ARE ARROGANT to believe video games are to blame, not merely 'have to', but ARE ARROGANT.

All forms of media are to blame; television, movies, video games, music; as well as poor parenting. I think most of you feel that they're placing the blame solely on video games when they're not. They've already covered the bad parenting angle enough and bad parents will always be bad parents;

Umm... wrong. They have. Not ONCE do they cover the bad parenting skills, and I think I would know considering I do most likely know MORE about current events than most persons on this entire board. (Especially considering I have been a political analyst on different boards.)

they're attempting to stop this at a different source now. I'm sure most of you are affected by video games more than you actually know it.

THERE IS NO DIFFERENT SOURCE. You take the parents and force THEM to be responsible for their kids. PLAIN AND SIMPLE!

I've played thousands of video games, not one time have I been affected psychologically. However, my hand-eye coordination and IQ has increased while playing.

The repetitive games force kids to memorize certain basic [sets of] sequences of actions that they can apply to any given situation. Of course older kids know how to differentiate between real and virtual situations, but the immature mind of child will easily blur the boundries. A kid can play a video game where the police are the bad guys, be force fed a skewed view of law enforcement by their disgruntled parents, and watch Fox giving them their own angles on their news stories and get real messed up real quickly. Not only that but older kids who've also had the same skewed views retold to them countless times can reinforce the mentality.

I won't comment on Fox News, just yet. But I do know all you have to do is take the kid away from the video game, not the video game away from the gamer, that is IF you want to fix the real situation.

If any of you ever have children, you have to be there 24/7 involved in everything they do.

Apparently not... we have now the largest majority of parents ever to leave their kids with other people or by themselves.

You can not trust every single child to be on their best behavior at all times.

No, but the parents must be held responsible for anything their kid does, and the parents must be responsible-else they don't deserve to be parents in the first place.

Parents are the number one role model for children, and if they're not the role model position falls on something/some one else. Television, video games, neighborhood kids, whatever else they have available to them they'll turn it into a role model. They're like wet clay continuously losing shape until they're dry enough to hold themselves together.

Then force the parents to get their act together and teach their kids the difference between right and wrong.

These games shouldn't have to be banned, they shouldn't have been made in the first place. We don't need game developers bungling up our future just to make a quick buck, which goes for music as well.

Wrong. People have every right to make any game they want, by the same token-we also have the right to boycott any item of interest we choose to. We are living in a democracy, or did you forget that?

Sorry, you are just WRONG. There is no way around it, PARENTS MUST TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR KIDS' DOING OR ELSE THEY SHOULD NOT BE PARENTING TO BEGIN WITH. Do not take the games away from those of us who enjoy them at the same time knowing the difference between reality and fantasy.