The Next-Gen War has Begun!

[TheGrandMom]

Re: The Next-Gen War has Begun!

Why do you have to argue with the facts, the facts are the PS3 has more supporters, more fans, and much more ease of design for creating games, and can outlast the 360 in terms of survivabilty thats why i feel the 360 will be a waste.

Anyway its my opinion, and its very rude of you to say i have a bug up my ass for saying that, it thnk your the one with bugs up your ass you old hag.

Facts? Yes, specs are facts but there is another fact. The systems haven't been released to the public and it is premature to decide if one is going to be "useless" or not. All something like that is fanboyism.

You say the PS3 has more supporters, yes it has a good portion of supporters but so does the 360.

You say that it is easier to design for. You are a programmer in the industry? Last time I heard there was a lot of pissing and moaning about the difficulty of the PS3. Granted this usually happens with new game systems, but unless your in the field I think such a blanket statement is worthless.

And now your already positive without a shadow of a doubt that the PS3 will outlast the 360 when they haven't even been released yet?? LOL I guess you aren't in the industry after all, your a fortune teller. Seems to me such predictions were made with the X-box. Many said it wouldn't last either. Last time I looked it was still on the shelf right next to the PS2. So much for that theory.

Yes EliteYuna, show us your true IQ and immaturity by lowering yourself to name calling. I got a good laugh, thank you! LOL

Oh thank you Pai. No need to argue. There is no arguement, its called a statement of opinion. Seems EliteYuna can do it but others can not.

[kuu]

Re: The Next-Gen War has Begun!

Why do you have to argue with the facts, the facts are the PS3 has more supporters, more fans, and much more ease of design for creating games, and can outlast the 360 in terms of survivabilty thats why i feel the 360 will be a waste.

Anyway its my opinion, and its very rude of you to say i have a bug up my ass for saying that, it thnk your the one with bugs up your ass you old hag.

Strickly speaking on a pure multi-threading level the Xbox360 is easier to program for then PS3.

The more threads you have, the harder is it to keep them all playing nicely and fed. Of course it's more then just multi-threading that make it harder/easier, there are other conserns like middleware, developer kits, licencing, promotions, etc,etc,etc.

For launch games, no question xbox360 is going to be easier to tap then PS3. with 3 cores even if you do absolutely NO mult-threading, you can tap 1/3rd of the CPU power. The same can not be said of the PS3 where you have 7 to juggle.

On the other hand Xbox360 developers with PC gaming backround are going to need all the help they can get dealing with something so foreign.

The PC game makers had a silver platter handed to them throughout their life(so to say). Pentium and AMD cpu's are beefy single processors, with big branch predictions and large cache. You can write the worse optimized code, and make it look good.

Not surpisingly the biggest cry of foul are from those groups. Console devs buckle up their belts, and prepare to get even less sleep then they had.

[EliteYuna]

Re: The Next-Gen War has Begun!

Yes EliteYuna, show us your true IQ and immaturity by lowering yourself to name calling. I got a good laugh, thank you! LOL

Your the one that started with sarcastic rude comments, you dont remember what your previous post said after quoting mine? here let me show you

The system isn't even released yet and people with a bug up their ass against MS (or some other lame reason) come out of the woodwork.

yeah the bug up their ass seems rude enough for me and shows your immaturity.

Also

You are a programmer in the industry? Last time I heard there was a lot of pissing and moaning about the difficulty of the PS3. Granted this usually happens with new game systems, but unless your in the field I think such a blanket statement is worthless.

Um ok so the last time you heard you claim their was difficulty with PS3 and you are not in the field either so the "unless your in the field I think such a blanket statement is worthless." would also apply to you and your statements.

Your just trying to justify your opinion that people who have the opinion of one system being better than the other because of their personal reasons and specs on the system are wrong and should give in to all 3 systems like you are. If you don't agree with my statements / opinions thats fine, but you don't have to resort to rude crap like insects inside bodily parts because you'll only get a taste of your own medicine back and you wont like it, and it looks like you didnt cause you commented on my IQ and what not because i called you a hag (also old but you are known for always fighting that you are indeed an old person so that is a fact that you admit although the hag i doubt.)


You could have done what Kuu did, he posted with statements and information regarding the PS3 compared to the 360 on the multi-threading and how difficult the programming will be on them. He didn't post nonsense like "you are wrong on that because you have a **** up your **** "

For launch games, no question xbox360 is going to be easier to tap then PS3. with 3 cores even if you do absolutely NO mult-threading, you can tap 1/3rd of the CPU power. The same can not be said of the PS3 where you have 7 to juggle.

7 cores is understandable on how it can be more difficult multi-threading versus 3 cores but if the devs for the PS3 manage to get programming with all the 7 cores and the 360 is using all 3 cores wouldn't the PS3 still be ahead?

[Jei]

Re: The Next-Gen War has Begun!

will PS3 really have easier to use SDK? PS2 for example even if I like the games it offers much more than X-box, but from a developer side of view, X-box is much easier to develope games for. As far as I know, x-box 360 also carries that quality over. I still haven't heard any words about PS3 SDK.

[kuu]

Re: The Next-Gen War has Begun!

will PS3 really have easier to use SDK? PS2 for example even if I like the games it offers much more than X-box, but from a developer side of view, X-box is much easier to develope games for. As far as I know, x-box 360 also carries that quality over. I still haven't heard any words about PS3 SDK.

No idea, not much information leaked down yet. Pai Pai's post has suggested they made attempt to make an effort to meet developers.

This time around they included the Unreal engine and source codes. The source codes is somewhat standard, but assuming Sony didn't get anal programers on the demos, looking at the duck(and others) will give developers idea on physics(running physics collisions on it's own thread?).

Unreal engine(assuming it's very well programed for PS3) will have to depend on their licencing. It looks nice, and if the price is right, it'll cut down a lot of times for those people with no so big budgets.

Xbox360...is just simply more simple. You got DX like api set, and 3 cores, instead of the mamoth 7 core of ps3. More worry on their backround. Xbox was an intel chip, and the IBM chip this time around is verrry different.

7 cores is understandable on how it can be more difficult multi-threading versus 3 cores but if the devs for the PS3 manage to get programming with all the 7 cores and the 360 is using all 3 cores wouldn't the PS3 still be ahead?

Well here's the thing... just like chips aren't equal, cores aren't equal. it's bascially like having another processor(excluding cache and other stuff). xbox360 probably has the higher individual core power, but PS3 just has more cores(or spe).

Definitely by numbers, PS3 will win, with the higher ceiling. If developers know their stuff, and invest into the PS3(and it's a good desicion to invest in it being it's the sucessor to ps2) They will have A LOT of power to play with...

Sony also has a slightly bigger vision then Microsoft. They want PS3 to not just play games, but be a home enterainment center! And this is where more cores = more ablity for almost free.

FFxi on PS3 threads using cores 1 and 2
Linux threads on core 3
Programs threads on core 4 and 5
Video threads on cores 6
etc.
Well more efficient since no threads needs to excusively take over a core but that's the basic idea.

Trying to multi-thread things that related to each other is a pain in the rear because you have to keep everything going smoothly (or it'll "lock" you can't crash a car if the wall isn't there) but having independent threads that have no relations to each other is relatively simple.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: The Next-Gen War has Begun!

I apoligize if anything I said to Kuu was harsh, because it appears he knows his fair share of knowledge. However, there is still some tomfoolery going on in this discussion.

You say the PS3 has more supporters, yes it has a good portion of supporters but so does the 360.

Your statement holds true, say, if we were comparing Gamecube to Xbox. Not to Playstation, which owns 75% of the market by itself. I'll start out by mentioning that despite its cumbersome development, the PS2 had more owners. Thus, despite being able to make a beautiful game on any other console, developers opted to go to the PS2, simply due to the fact that they had more ofa chance of attracting more customers.

Oh yeah, rememeber that these companies dont give three shits of us past their wallets. Money talks, and even if a game looks 10 times better on the Xbox, the simple fact thhat more ppl had PS2 acconuted for its flood of titles.

Once again, I mention that Microsoft is shooting themselves in the feet. If XB360 is so awsome, cant they simply run XB through emulation on the hardware? Maybe, licenses and so on and so forth, but as I said, Microsoft lacks the ability to look more than 1-2 years in the future. This comes from being on PCs too long, where generations are defined by months, not years. So I suppose we cant blame them on that.

But back to my point, PS3 will have the option of playing PS2 and PS1 games, In addition to all the new features. This alone makes it a killer app, as many ppl will buy for the "Sake of having it, and being able to play new stuff as well", while not losing any of their old stuff. Microsoft? Well, while your watching your jenna jameson dvd, you can get invited to play some FPS or Racing or Sports game.

Hence, back to Microsoft's shortsight, they think that they can do to Sony this generation what Sony did to them. Simply being on the market first isnt good enough, its about timing. Evidently, Microsoft's J Allard has finished looking in the mirror and taking pictures long enough to come up with the absurd idea of killing a system he put all 100 of his IQ into those many years ago.

You say that it is easier to design for. You are a programmer in the industry? Last time I heard there was a lot of pissing and moaning about the difficulty of the PS3. Granted this usually happens with new game systems, but unless your in the field I think such a blanket statement is worthless.

I had something to say to this, but kuu seems more well versed on threads. As much as I want to discount him, it seemed, pretty obviously, that Sony opted to only display demos from creators who "knew their stuff", and not the basket cases that run rampant on PCs. I mean seriously, how can you consider Morrowind an RPG? >.>

Kuu, I still like my analogy of a high-powered vacuum being able to do all the high-end stuff with only low-end commands- simply because it is so sophisticated. Thats why, despite your valid arguments, I cant agree with you 100% that the PS3 will be a complex beast. Even Microsoft admits that Sony makes wonderful hardware, and unlike this generation, it appears that Sony took into consideration that not everyone is a rocket scientist like the guys that used to be at Square. When i find this article explaining the emotion engines coding, i'll post it here. It explains how unique the EE's coding really was, and looking at games such as MGS and FFX, you can see what developers who know what their doing can produce.

Even tho all that FFXII footage we saw was cutscenes, they were rendered using the Real-Time models, so that is another testament to a developers prowess ^^

/endrant

[kuu]

Re: The Next-Gen War has Begun!

Kuu, I still like my analogy of a high-powered vacuum being able to do all the high-end stuff with only low-end commands- simply because it is so sophisticated. Thats why, despite your valid arguments, I cant agree with you 100% that the PS3 will be a complex beast. Even Microsoft admits that Sony makes wonderful hardware, and unlike this generation, it appears that Sony took into consideration that not everyone is a rocket scientist like the guys that used to be at Square. When i find this article explaining the emotion engines coding, i'll post it here. It explains how unique the EE's coding really was, and looking at games such as MGS and FFX, you can see what developers who know what their doing can produce.

Even tho all that FFXII footage we saw was cutscenes, they were rendered using the Real-Time models, so that is another testament to a developers prowess ^^

/endrant

Well... PS3 is a lot more technical then what I've said...simply because it has to many demensions(other weird stuff in there that some think might help or hurt developers). But on the basic level its the old engineering conundrum. To get something, you have to sacifice other things.

Sony wanted something crazy powerful, yet cheap. And thus this is why we have a crazy 8 core chip. It's the fastest means to get power, but utlizing it is less then desirable.

It's too earily to know if Sony's and to an extent MS, does on sdk and incentives. They can try to be as helper friendly as possible, going the extra mile, or be cool and distant. If they're serious, they'll go the former.

This does not make the problem go away, but it'll smooth it over. This is this and that is that so to say.

Yes the demo's are amazing.
This is the reason I said the Console programers are just that more likely to raise to the challenge. They were breed on the "wtf is this?" senerio. Not to mention having a big bank account to help you out is always a good idea.

Of course in the end you have to realise that the game industry is one harsh task-mistress...the cut throat-deadlines is not going to help the problem. Telling programers to do more work, in the same timeframe is painful, but the light at the end of the road keeps them chucking along

[TheGrandMom]

Re: The Next-Gen War has Begun!

Your the one that started with sarcastic rude comments, you dont remember what your previous post said after quoting mine? here let me show you


Um ok so the last time you heard you claim their was difficulty with PS3 and you are not in the field either so the "unless your in the field I think such a blanket statement is worthless." would also apply to you and your statements.

I said people, I guess you must consider yourself as one of the people with a bug up their ass. Which is pretty evident by your ranting. LOL

At least I said that I heard and didn't speak like I absolutely knew something which is what you seem to do quite often. I know my limitations are to what I read/know and not that I'm all knowlegable because I favor one thing over another. Good example would be restuarants. I go to an Italian place and I love their spaghetti. I get into a discussion with a coworker about spaghetti and I say "Well I know that Papa's has good spaghetti but I've not eaten at Mama's. I hear that its good but I prefer to stick with my restuarant because it's what I like." or I could be like you and say "My spaghetti is better than yours...end of discussion."

Oh and you are wrong because you have a bug up your ass. Your rants just prove my point. Thank you.

Your statement holds true, say, if we were comparing Gamecube to Xbox. Not to Playstation, which owns 75% of the market by itself.

I didn't quote numbers did I? All I said is that the XB is still on the shelf next to the PS2. I've seen systems come and go and if they really stink they they end up in the clearance bin half way through their lifespan. X-box is still on the shelf and there are plenty of people that enjoy it. Two million Live subscribers will tell you so. Thats all my point is, the system works for some people. Yes the PS2 is number 1 and the PS3 probably will be also. But each system has its niche. It's just sickening listening to fanboys going "My system is better than yours!! Nah Nah Nah!!" LOL And when I see it, I call it.

[Vinen]

Re: The Next-Gen War has Begun!

I forgot what I was going to post... edited out what I did.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: The Next-Gen War has Begun!

Being in Sony's Corner, I still must concur with you. I fucking hate fanboys. They're views on the current market are clouded by their elite asshatism. But in any case, TGM, I see your point of view now, and sorry if it seemed I was condescending. I just thought you were implying otherwise in comparison to the amount of support for the coming systems.

Oh, and good point on the longevity of garbage systems. However, we must keep in mind the variables in this market, us, the consumers. For all intensive purposes, I will admit that the Dreamcast had PLENTY going for it, even up until the point that PS2 came out. Hell, if you compared the two at PS2's launch (of course after looking BACK with what we know now) Dreamcast's second year pwnd it in terms of quality of gaming and the online portion.

But us, as variables, didnt have enough bells and whistles, and that is why Sony effectively stomped out Dreamcast. Perhaps we learned from that, and perhaps Sony knows better now.

So like many of you have said, I will agree that we cannot discount the other systems since they will evidently be less powerful and less capable of creating those beautiful games we know will find a home on the PS3.

This generation will be interesting, because the most powerful system has the most developer support, meaning that it'll own even more of the market due to it's alluring appeals to developers.

BUT, it was stated only last year that the internet is going to be a big part of the entire market. Hell, even Nintendo openly admited to talking out of their asses about online gaming being a "fad" when they saw MS move ahead of them by leaps and bounds if due to nothing but XBL. 2mill subscribers is ALOT, when you consider something like FFXI has ONE Million. And the XBL experience is one to be enjoyed.

More so, Broadband is more wide spread than ppl give credit. Japan is almost totally brodband, because they dont have issues with it being "expensive" or w/e the bullshit a lot of americans go through over our broadband. Also, keep in mind that they are a considerably smaller country, so anything they do requires less money to achieve full connectivity throughout the network.

Yet, if I recall some interesting numbers, over 70 or 80% of households in America have internet access, and out of those, about 50 or so percent have Broadband. This is very impressive, considering that only 3 short years ago, it was around 10%. I also will have to admit to AOL being so damn good at marketing, we can enjoy competitive broadband prices and service XD

Microsoft seems to be carrying the strong XBL support over to their next beast, and for all intensive purposes, I am a strong believer that despite how many FFs we get, if 360 continues to spank PS3 this generation online like its older brother did, we will see a close race.

However, this only means that Sony wont be slacking in their department, so maybe I dont have to hold my breath ^^

[EliteYuna]

Re: The Next-Gen War has Begun!

I said people, I guess you must consider yourself as one of the people with a bug up their ass. Which is pretty evident by your ranting. LOL

Yes you said people, but you also said it after quoting one of my posts which directly implies where your ranting is being directed to, which is me, which is why I commented on how that was rude.

Oh and you are wrong because you have a bug up your ass.

See, i was correct again, you were directing that statement with use of "people with a bug up their ass" directly towards me, because you just said it again but this time with "you are" "you have a" So take a look at your rants, they just prove my point.

So once again ill repost what i had on my previous post which you obviously didnt read because you went ahead and did the "you have a *** up your ***" statement again.

If you don't agree with my statements / opinions thats fine, but you don't have to resort to rude crap like insects inside bodily parts because you'll only get a taste of your own medicine back and you wont like it.

--

I am a strong believer that despite how many FFs we get, if 360 continues to spank PS3 this generation online like its older brother did, we will see a close race.

However, this only means that Sony wont be slacking in their department, so maybe I dont have to hold my breath ^^

I was very disappointed on how the plans with AOL and PS2 for a browser and other features for the HDD never got implemented. I hope things like that dont occur again but with the PS3's online support and various features but who knows what may happen in the future.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: The Next-Gen War has Begun!

Yes you said people, but you also said it after quoting one of my posts which directly implies where your ranting is being directed to, which is me, which is why I commented on how that was rude.



See, i was correct again, you were directing that statement with use of "people with a bug up their ass" directly towards me, because you just said it again but this time with "you are" "you have a" So take a look at your rants, they just prove my point.

So once again ill repost what i had on my previous post which you obviously didnt read because you went ahead and did the "you have a *** up your ***" statement again.

Elite Yuna get off your high horse and look in the mirror. Your statements smack of fanboyism and everyone can see it but you. The first "bug up their ass" was not directed at you but the second one surely was because as I said you DO have a bug up your ass. Live with it. LOL

Wish, I recently read this:

"There were plenty of moans heard when Sony started talking about an add-on hard disk drive for the PS3. We all know how well the PS2 HDD did. Still, there will be a micro HDD released for the PS3 at some point in time. The first capacity being pitched is 80 gb, but developers are being told it won't be for use with games. Instead, Sony is planning to use it as pure storage; you'll do thinkgs like put downloaded movies on it, copy MP3s to it, and store your digital photos on it."

So now this leaves me to wonder, no FFXI on the PS3??? Is that why the Box is getting it? Smooth move? or total stupidity? Time will tell I guess.

[kuu]

Re: The Next-Gen War has Begun!

Elite Yuna get off your high horse and look in the mirror. Your statements smack of fanboyism and everyone can see it but you. The first "bug up their ass" was not directed at you but the second one surely was because as I said you DO have a bug up your ass. Live with it. LOL

Wish, I recently read this:

"There were plenty of moans heard when Sony started talking about an add-on hard disk drive for the PS3. We all know how well the PS2 HDD did. Still, there will be a micro HDD released for the PS3 at some point in time. The first capacity being pitched is 80 gb, but developers are being told it won't be for use with games. Instead, Sony is planning to use it as pure storage; you'll do thinkgs like put downloaded movies on it, copy MP3s to it, and store your digital photos on it."

So now this leaves me to wonder, no FFXI on the PS3??? Is that why the Box is getting it? Smooth move? or total stupidity? Time will tell I guess.

More like someone knows his math.

How big is a HD? How big is blue ray? Blue ray is 50gigs. That means with 80 gig you can have 1 full game on a HD at once...

It's an effort in futility until HD cost comes down. It's better if you run it off blue ray for now.

If you're worried about load time, well suck it up, blue ray isn't a push over in seek speed for a 50gig potiental.

There's nothing that says it can't be run off games, it's just not intended to. If you wanted ffxi on ps3, it wil run. You got some serious mis-information regarding what it does and what it does not.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: The Next-Gen War has Begun!

More like someone knows his math.

How big is a HD? How big is blue ray? Blue ray is 50gigs. That means with 80 gig you can have 1 full game on a HD at once...

It's an effort in futility until HD cost comes down. It's better if you run it off blue ray for now.

If you're worried about load time, well suck it up, blue ray isn't a push over in seek speed for a 50gig potiental.

There's nothing that says it can't be run off games, it's just not intended to. If you wanted ffxi on ps3, it wil run. You got some serious mis-information regarding what it does and what it does not.

Well Kuu since I wasn't addressing numbers I don't need to "suck it up". I just posted a piece of news that I read out of the PSM magazine the other day.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: The Next-Gen War has Begun!

Neh, the recent one? Ah, I must have missed that article. But who knows, maybe ppl willing to plop 400smakers on this beat wont mind getting a HDD. Of course, thats not saying we wont be dissapointed =/ One again, it seems that while lacking in games, Microsoft is doing pretty good in functionality, and that's all the difference. . .