Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Kim-Jong Un

[Melody]

Not sure if you guys have been watching anything on the news, but has anyone else seen how stupid Kim Jong Un is being? I'm sorry if any of our members are Korean but he's being down right foolish if he's going to attempt to attack the US. Has he not seen our fighting history as far back as Pearl Harbor? To me this is going to be dumb if we end up having to declare war on North Korea due to Kim needing to flex his muscles at the US. We're the only known power in the world to have wiped 2 countries clean off the map. I'm pretty sure if we have to do that with N. Korea, things won't be so pretty. Let's hope Obama knows what he's doing with this one.I mean our past is riddled with bloodshed, from civil war, to straight global war. Also we're still cleaning up the mess we left in Iraq in all the those eastern countries so does Kim REALLY want a piece of us that bad?

[Feba]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Kim-Jong Un

if anybody on this forum is north korean, there is about a %100 chance that they are not fans of Kim.

incidentally, I've met a couple of north koreans, they seemed like really nice people

[cidbahamut]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Kim-Jong Un

Since when does anyone actually take North Korea's threats of attacking the US seriously? I thought that was just how they said "good morning".

[Taskmage]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Kim-Jong Un

The vlogbrothers, as they sometimes do, provided a pretty informative tl;dr of the North Korea thing:

[Malacite]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Kim-Jong Un

It's a really complicated mess. Essentially he's attempting to extort the U.S. and China and build up PR (gotta love that State-run propaganda).

Realistically, they can't reach the U.S. (yet) or load a nuclear weapon on a missile as they can't make a warhead small enough. That doesn't mean they won't try, however, and in the mean time China, South Korea and Japan are shitting bricks. China's walking a very fine line as they provide 50% of NK's food and a good chunk of their fuel. They're also their biggest supporter at the U.N.

Though that's not out of any sort of love for the NKs; If NK were to fall apart, you'd have millions of refugees flooding into China as well as a re-unified Korea with U.S. troops on the borders and Nuclear weapons pointed at China, likely with the support of Japan (common enemy scenario; Japan and Korea don't get along either but then again, Asia's funny like that in they all hate each other for various reasons. Sorta like Europe but not quite the same.) On the flipside of all that, China doesn't want to piss off their #1 trade partner either (USA). Nevermind the potential for all this to spark WW3...

I honestly wasn't aware until yesterday just how delicate a game China's playing with this, which is why I'm glad there's still SOME competent people in the news business like Fareed Zakaria.

[Firewind]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Kim-Jong Un

Another thing to consider on top of what Mal said is that a lot of these messages tend to be directed at the people of North Korea by the party as a way of their propaganda machine of showing the people that they are still defying the Americans. There's also the debate on just how much control Kim Jong-Un has and how much control is resting the the Generals of the North Korean military, some of which are mad enough to be believing their own bullshit.

Basically:

• China doesn't want to piss off the US, the EU or Russia due to a LOT of money and trade being involved.
• China also don't want the millions of NK Refugees and the Americans in their back door more than they already are because of Japan.
• If Japan is attacked then the US is obliged to help defend them so any attack on Japan WILL drag in the US which WILL drag in NATO.
• Japan, South Korea and China don't want to piss each other off due to trade and money and any conflict dragging in the Americans and inevitably NATO.
• Nobody wants to piss off the Americans (except maybe NK) for obvious reasons.
• Russia doesn't want any of this shit going on because you know, all of this is happening in Russia's backyard as much as China's
• Nobody wants WW3 but it could potentially happen if anyone does anything stupid.
• NK can only realistically hit Guam or Alaska and they have no guidance technology to speak of so even if they DO launch a Nuke, they can't target anything with it. The Chinese or Russians have no interest in GIVING it to NK because that it pretty likely to spark a war that WILL involve the US and NATO.
• NK thinks it can be clever by intimidating Diplomats but everyone is calling their bluff.
• Iran is throwing a fit because people are ignoring them.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Kim-Jong Un

I liked their MS Paint hovercrafts being deployed earlier this week. I'm no Photoshop wizard, but even I don't leave that kind of artifacting behind.

[Malacite]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Kim-Jong Un

Another thing to consider on top of what Mal said is that a lot of these messages tend to be directed at the people of North Korea by the party as a way of their propaganda machine of showing the people that they are still defying the Americans. There's also the debate on just how much control Kim Jong-Un has and how much control is resting the the Generals of the North Korean military, some of which are mad enough to be believing their own bullshit.

Basically:

• China doesn't want to piss off the US, the EU or Russia due to a LOT of money and trade being involved.
• China also don't want the millions of NK Refugees and the Americans in their back door more than they already are because of Japan.
• If Japan is attacked then the US is obliged to help defend them so any attack on Japan WILL drag in the US which WILL drag in NATO.
• Japan, South Korea and China don't want to piss each other off due to trade and money and any conflict dragging in the Americans and inevitably NATO.
• Nobody wants to piss off the Americans (except maybe NK) for obvious reasons.
• Russia doesn't want any of this shit going on because you know, all of this is happening in Russia's backyard as much as China's
• Nobody wants WW3 but it could potentially happen if anyone does anything stupid.
• NK can only realistically hit Guam or Alaska and they have no guidance technology to speak of so even if they DO launch a Nuke, they can't target anything with it. The Chinese or Russians have no interest in GIVING it to NK because that it pretty likely to spark a war that WILL involve the US and NATO.
• NK thinks it can be clever by intimidating Diplomats but everyone is calling their bluff.
• Iran is throwing a fit because people are ignoring them.

And of course, China isn't exactly thrilled at having a crazed, belligerent, nuclear armed neighbor either; NK might not be able to hit the U.S. with a nuke but they can sure as shit bomb China or SK, and nobody really wants that. I have to say though, they have got BALLS to try and extort China and the U.S. with this shit - crazy as they are, they have to know that they're in the same boat as Iran - they strike, and it'll be the last thing they ever do, ​literally.

- - - Updated - - -

I liked their MS Paint hovercrafts being deployed earlier this week. I'm no Photoshop wizard, but even I don't leave that kind of artifacting behind.

Yeah Jon Stewart had a field day with that.

[Melody]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Kim-Jong Un

Question, would this be a similar situation with the Cuban Missle Crisis we had with JFK? I'm really hoping Kim isn't dumb enough to try to mess with the US, since it'd be a bad move on his part. I take it we would tell our allies to stop trading with NK? Only bad thing I see happening is Kim giving aggression to the lesser countries to support NK with supplies. I honestly think Vietnam has more of a reason to hate us than Koreans. Hell we turned one of the biggest Korean popstars into an american hit over here or would it be wrong to deny Sy his fame in the US while Kim sits on his high chair and is eating with a bib.

Another thing to consider on top of what Mal said is that a lot of these messages tend to be directed at the people of North Korea by the party as a way of their propaganda machine of showing the people that they are still defying the Americans. There's also the debate on just how much control Kim Jong-Un has and how much control is resting the the Generals of the North Korean military, some of which are mad enough to be believing their own bullshit.


Basically:

• China doesn't want to piss off the US, the EU or Russia due to a LOT of money and trade being involved.
• China also don't want the millions of NK Refugees and the Americans in their back door more than they already are because of Japan.
• If Japan is attacked then the US is obliged to help defend them so any attack on Japan WILL drag in the US which WILL drag in NATO.
• Japan, South Korea and China don't want to piss each other off due to trade and money and any conflict dragging in the Americans and inevitably NATO.
• Nobody wants to piss off the Americans (except maybe NK) for obvious reasons.
• Russia doesn't want any of this shit going on because you know, all of this is happening in Russia's backyard as much as China's
• Nobody wants WW3 but it could potentially happen if anyone does anything stupid.
• NK can only realistically hit Guam or Alaska and they have no guidance technology to speak of so even if they DO launch a Nuke, they can't target anything with it. The Chinese or Russians have no interest in GIVING it to NK because that it pretty likely to spark a war that WILL involve the US and NATO.
• NK thinks it can be clever by intimidating Diplomats but everyone is calling their bluff.
• Iran is throwing a fit because people are ignoring them.

Also we froze Japanese bank accounts at one point. Pretty sure we'd do it again for Koreans in the US if it boiled down to it to keep NK from getting any type of funds. I also think Japan has enough shit on their plate from being tossed like a salad by mother nature. The earhquake, tidal wave, etc etc.
Russia doesn't like getting involved in shit they don't need to.
I hate to say it, but if China did get involved and called for the US, it would be a business thing for the US to go "After this is over, mind clearing off some of that debt...."
The US has some of the most able bodied, war trained people in the world. Plus our military power is frightening. Even during the draft people still held strong. This makes me happy that I am an american and I'm proud of our soldiers for doing their duty on the front lines by keeping our families and homes safe from alienated attacks.

[Malacite]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Kim-Jong Un

Question, would this be a similar situation with the Cuban Missle Crisis we had with JFK? I'm really hoping Kim isn't dumb enough to try to mess with the US, since it'd be a bad move on his part. I take it we would tell our allies to stop trading with NK? Only bad thing I see happening is Kim giving aggression to the lesser countries to support NK with supplies. I honestly think Vietnam has more of a reason to hate us than Koreans. Hell we turned one of the biggest Korean popstars into an american hit over here or would it be wrong to deny Sy his fame in the US while Kim sits on his high chair and is eating with a bib.



Also we froze Japanese bank accounts at one point. Pretty sure we'd do it again for Koreans in the US if it boiled down to it to keep NK from getting any type of funds. I also think Japan has enough shit on their plate from being tossed like a salad by mother nature. The earhquake, tidal wave, etc etc.
Russia doesn't like getting involved in shit they don't need to.
I hate to say it, but if China did get involved and called for the US, it would be a business thing for the US to go "After this is over, mind clearing off some of that debt...."
The US has some of the most able bodied, war trained people in the world. Plus our military power is frightening. Even during the draft people still held strong. This makes me happy that I am an american and I'm proud of our soldiers for doing their duty on the front lines by keeping our families and homes safe from alienated attacks.

Uh, just what do you think Sanctions are? Not that they appear to really be deterring them much. My honest hope is there's a little more saber rattling, and then back to business as usual.

Worst case scenario, SK or Japan take a hit and WW3 is started...

Though again, I'm honestly not 100% sure on that. If push came to shove, I really do believe China would tell NK to go fuck itself and side with the west for economic reasons (and to get the crazies out of their back yard; they're not too keen on a nuclear armed SK but better to have a disgruntled, SANE enemy than a crazy, belligerent ally). Communications weren't exactly stellar back during WW2, nor were global relations. Things are much more stable and interconnected now - essentially, if someone decides to rock the boat, rather than the whole ship going over, we toss out the asshat (nuking NK out of existence, much like what would happen to Iran).

[Feba]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Kim-Jong Un

1- "Korea" is two radically different countries. There is South Korea, which is an incredibly powerful economy that competes with Japan as a high-tech and pop-culture leader (and is quickly gaining the lead, too), and there is North Korea, which is behind most third world countries, and is mostly known for being the most closed off state in the world, essentially still stuck in the 1940s with VERY few exceptions, such as the national intranet.

2- The idea of North Korea bombing China is sort of like the idea of Israel bombing the US. Attacking China would be an even bigger mistake than attacking America--One of these countries has not just nuclear weapons, but an army of millions right next door, ready to come in and take you down. The mere presence of China would delay and mediate any US response; China would flatten North Korea right down to the DMZ.

3- Most people in Asia aren't shitting bricks. They're talking about it, sure, but that's just because it's in the news. The average level of fear and paranoia could be compared to the way Americans look at global warming.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Kim-Jong Un

Does Melody really not understand that there are two different countries and that one of them is so goddamn insulated that their population is largely ignorant of the reality of the world outside its borders? It really sounds like she's panicking because the media told her to but she doesn't have any understanding of the nations involved, much less the specifics of what's going on.

[Malacite]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Kim-Jong Un

To be fair, this is a pretty serious issue with the potential to spark WW3...

But I'm optimistic it won't come to that, assuming China's newly elected PM has any sense. China stands to lose a lot more than they could conceivably gain out of a conflict. I bet you didn't know that they're actually knee-deep in debt as well. Yeah, surprised the hell out of me too when I saw that on Fareed a few weeks ago. And then there's the $1 trillion of U.S. debt they hold as well their own national debt... now imagine what would happen if all out war broke out and their biggest trading partner suddenly got hid hard as a result, or worse yet cut off all economic ties? Yeah, they're not too keen on that happening. Time for "Daddy" to go and tell his bastard child to have a time out.

[Icemage]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Kim-Jong Un

The thing is, NK needs China. China doesn't need NK for, well, anything, really. It's not like South Korea is going to attack China even if NK didn't exist. At most they'd send some K-pop stars over there to corrupt the youth.

Really what's happening here, though, is that Kim Jong Un is doing the same thing has father and grandfather did: nurture a cult of personality to maintain control. If the people think they owe you a debt of gratitude and you're their protector, it's less likely that any insurgency attempt will succeed because the common folk will actively oppose any such attempt.

NK has absolutely zero chance of winning a shooting war with any of its neighbors, let alone the US.

While they could theoretically do a ton of political damage, and maybe even spark a local conflict, the only players that really matter (China and the US) aren't interested in starting Armageddon over what is effectively the oldest banana republic on the planet.


Icemage

[Malacite]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Kim-Jong Un

The thing is, NK needs China. China doesn't need NK for, well, anything, really. It's not like South Korea is going to attack China even if NK didn't exist. At most they'd send some K-pop stars over there to corrupt the youth.

Really what's happening here, though, is that Kim Jong Un is doing the same thing has father and grandfather did: nurture a cult of personality to maintain control. If the people think they owe you a debt of gratitude and you're their protector, it's less likely that any insurgency attempt will succeed because the common folk will actively oppose any such attempt.

NK has absolutely zero chance of winning a shooting war with any of its neighbors, let alone the US.

While they could theoretically do a ton of political damage, and maybe even spark a local conflict, the only players that really matter (China and the US) aren't interested in starting Armageddon over what is effectively the oldest banana republic on the planet.


Icemage

Against a combined front no, but they still have the 4th/5th largest army in the world and they do have nukes, even if they haven't been able to get them properly loaded on an ICBM - that's why this is such a headache. They're pretty well trained too.

I would pity the civilians if they hadn't willingly followed their "grand leader" back during the civil war to found that bullshit nation in the first place - Hitler had a silver tongue too.


But yeah you're basically re-iterating my point - the world's 2 biggest economies aren't about to let WW3 break out over 1 rogue asshat of a "Country".