Obama Wins 303 : 206

[Malacite]

Re: Obama Wins 303 : 206

For the record, David Cameron is a tosser.

Back on topic, I think now is definitely the time to start pushing for either a 3rd party, or if the country can stomache it, a parliament like the rest of the west.


The Democrats have basically become what the Republicans used to be or "Rockefeller Republicans" if you will - Obama is by no means a liberal. The Republicans have morphed into an zealous & extremist, anti-women anti-minority plutocracy. Therefor, I could see the moderates that are left splintering off and possibly merging with the democrats (or even forming their own group, possibly with the Libertarians) and the Liberals in the Democratic party splintering off as well because let's face it, the U.S. doesn't even have a Liberal party anymore. I was one of many who'd hoped Obama would be a 2nd FDR but that's clearly not the case.


And as to my earlier argument, the man's stopped 1 war, intends to shutdown the other as well in 2 years. He's proposed a budget that will cut the debt by $4 Trillion in a balanced manner (though many experts argue that there's more that can be done and they're right) AND above all else (IMO), he's the 1st president in ages to actually cut the runaway military budget almost in half over the next 10 years. That alone speaks volumes to me.


Of course, none of that matters if the Congress keeps their eternal pissing match going, and they probably will. Piers Morgan has Jesse Ventura on the show again tonight, so I'll be looking forward to that


I'd love to see him run next time. I don't care who either party nominates in that event, Jesse FTW.

[Yygdrasil]

Re: Obama Wins 303 : 206

Jesse Ventura

Right here. This was where I lost any remaining respect I had for your opinions.

[Etra]

Re: Obama Wins 303 : 206

{swoops in}

http://i.imgur.com/krzQu.jpg

{swoops out}

[Yygdrasil]

Re: Obama Wins 303 : 206

{swoops in}

http://i.imgur.com/krzQu.jpg

{swoops out}

lol

[Malacite]

Re: Obama Wins 303 : 206

And why would that be?

He ran Minnesota exceptionally well, was also a mayor and navy seal. The guy isn't beholden to anyone, has a healthy loathing of both parties...


I really don't see the downsides. I don't agree with everything he says, but he's proven himself more than capable and I really like the guy.

[Yygdrasil]

Re: Obama Wins 303 : 206

Lets leave it at, you have your opinions and I have mine.

[Malacite]

Re: Obama Wins 303 : 206

Yeah fair enough.

The only other independent candidate I would like to see run would be Bloomberg. He held off last time because he didn't want to go up against Obama, but I'd sure rather see him win over Jeb Bush @_@; (if the Republicans have any sense, they'll try to get Chris Christie nominated next time)

[Aeni]

Re: Obama Wins 303 : 206

If you live safely in a state that did not have its final outcome at all in doubt, then yes, the kingmaker problem dissipates because your vote will not change the election result.

Icemage

There's a wealth of fascinating psychological studies on this topic.

Fun question: but what if everyone thought the same way as you? Or enough in numbers that they will actually allow the "other" person they didn't want to win, win. I have a feeling this is what happened in those primaries where there were Tea Party candidates and the same candidates cost a certain party some very precious Senate seats...

Edit:

I also found the electoral map fascinating. Red states. Blue states. It almost seems as if nothing has changed in the intervening years since the Civil War ended. There were some voices on the Union side which had wanted to "kill" off the South (e.g., letting them decay and rot away in post-war "recovery") but Lincoln went for a conciliatory approach with wanting to help with reconstruction (ultimately at the cost of his own life) Had those hard-lined voices had their way, they probably would've supported Sherman rampaging westward and burning everything down to the ground, leaving a very different country.

[Feba]

Re: Obama Wins 303 : 206

even after the reconstruction, the south lagged behind the north for nearly a century; until WW2, arguably later.

If you look at intelligence, they still haven't caught up [/trollface]

[DakAttack]

Re: Obama Wins 303 : 206

even after the reconstruction, the south lagged behind the north for nearly a century; until WW2, arguably later.

If you look at intelligence, they still haven't caught up [/trollface]

Their public education is just fine until they teach the Civil War. Once it jumps the tracks, there's no getting back on.

[Icemage]

Re: Obama Wins 303 : 206

There's a wealth of fascinating psychological studies on this topic.

Fun question: but what if everyone thought the same way as you? Or enough in numbers that they will actually allow the "other" person they didn't want to win, win. I have a feeling this is what happened in those primaries where there were Tea Party candidates and the same candidates cost a certain party some very precious Senate seats...

Edit:

I also found the electoral map fascinating. Red states. Blue states. It almost seems as if nothing has changed in the intervening years since the Civil War ended. There were some voices on the Union side which had wanted to "kill" off the South (e.g., letting them decay and rot away in post-war "recovery") but Lincoln went for a conciliatory approach with wanting to help with reconstruction (ultimately at the cost of his own life) Had those hard-lined voices had their way, they probably would've supported Sherman rampaging westward and burning everything down to the ground, leaving a very different country.

Actually it's not quite that simple. The reason the modern US electoral map looks very similar to a century ago isn't necessarily because nothing has changed. Rather, it has much more to do with the deliberate policy shifts over time.

Shortly after the Civil War, most of the South was actually a Democratic stronghold because it was the Republicans who championed the cause of outlawing slavery (strange, but true! Lincoln was a Republican). Nearly all of the states there were heavily Democratic until the mid 1960s, when the tables flipped, and it became the Democrats who would push for civil rights, alienating much of the South in the process (but more or less cementing the Democratic hold on the African-American vote).

The problems Republicans have now is that minorities are now growing in the most influential states in the South: Florida and Texas.

Those two states have heavy representation from minorities, and not coincidentally have a large bloc of electoral votes as well. Florida is already a swing state. Texas is projected to become a swing state in less than two decades, as the young Hispanics who are living and moving there reach voting age. With the GOP losing the Hispanic vote 3-to-1 (and that's WITH Cubans included; if you remove the Cubans from the equation it's more like 4 to 1), they have a big, big problem. If Texas becomes a swing state and Florida continues its slide to the left due to the influx of Northern retirees and a population explosion amongst Hispanics, in two decades we're going to be looking at presidential elections where Democratic candidates will start off with around 220 electoral votes already locked up, and only needing to win a handful of other swing states.

That doesn't mean the Republicans lose everywhere, of course. Utah's predominantly white and will probably stay so indefinitely, and so will states like Wyoming and Kansas. But the smaller rural states where the GOP holds its strength simply don't have enough population (and hence electoral votes) to matter in anything other than the House of Representatives. Losing Texas as a stronghold will push the Republican party into minority status, and that's something they simply cannot afford to have happen.

I expect cooler heads in the GOP will try to find a way to mend the rift between Republicans and minorities. The big question is whether they can do so with the ultra-conservatives and Tea Party shouting them down the whole way.


Icemage

EDIT: Can't count.

[Malacite]

Re: Obama Wins 303 : 206

>.> Lincoln wasn't just a Republican, he was the founder of the party.



​Probably rolling in his grave now too.

[Mezlo]

Re: Obama Wins 303 : 206

Terrence & Phillip aren't the founders of Canada but their ancestors are, yes?

[Feba]

Re: Obama Wins 303 : 206

Unrelated to the election, but David Patraeus resigned...due to an extramarital affair.

SUGGESTION: I think there's an appetite for political discourse on this forum which we don't really have any outlet for, and thus leads to spillover into the other off topic threads. Should we just rename this the official politics thread and let all of the junk flow in here, like we do for other subjects?

[Icemage]

Re: Obama Wins 303 : 206

>.> Lincoln wasn't just a Republican, he was the founder of the party.

​Probably rolling in his grave now too.

Not entirely true. Abraham Lincoln was indeed the strongest influence at the beginning of the Republican Party, but he ended up joining it shortly after its founding in 1854 (Lincoln was a Whig at that time).


Icemage