Magic: The Gathering

[Icemage]

Re: Magic: The Gathering

You missed the memo where Core sets are being done away with completely, then. (Maro has further confirmed that this will not dumb down the complexity of future sets, while giving them more leeway to reprint whatever they feel like.)

I'm speaking more from the viewpoint of a new player just getting into the game; right now with core sets, they pretty much have to pick up the current core set to make anything playable in Standard constructed, but those cards rotate out faster than anything besides 3rd sets in a block. Granted, a lot of those cards can be acquired for much less because the vast majority are reprints, but that comes with problems of its own if you actually need any of the new rares in the set (see: Mutavault).

Also, I care less about a card being able to "assert itself in Standard" so much as being a good use of my money. 18 months instead of 24 ensures that I only get 3/4 the chronological value of any card from a Fall set (and, strictly speaking, 5/7 the value from a Winter set)--and I'll reiterate, I do not expect the prices of such cards to go even anywhere but up any time remotely soon.

I can understand that. Still, it's not all awful; while cards from 1st main sets will rotate out faster, it also means that really obnoxious stuff rotates out faster, too. Unless you play Modern/Legacy/Vintage where such cards never rotate out, but if that's the case what difference does it make when they rotate out of Standard?

I think that as long as there are a (slightly) larger number of overall reprints in the new sets than previously, it'll cushion the blow for new players while keeping the game still playable for established players.


Icemage

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Magic: The Gathering

I'm speaking more from the viewpoint of a new player just getting into the game; right now with core sets, they pretty much have to pick up the current core set to make anything playable in Standard constructed, but those cards rotate out faster than anything besides 3rd sets in a block.

I still don't understand what you're saying here. "Well, at least Dewey will only be in Standard as long as the Core Sets, even though they aren't being made again after Blood block"?

I can understand that. Still, it's not all awful; while cards from 1st main sets will rotate out faster, it also means that really obnoxious stuff rotates out faster, too.

So basically you're in favor of faster rotations out of principle here. While I can understand that, this particular logic feels like it'd also throw the baby out with the bathwater. Which, granted, I suppose describes every Standard rotation ever.

[Icemage]

Re: Magic: The Gathering

I still don't understand what you're saying here. "Well, at least Dewey will only be in Standard as long as the Core Sets, even though they aren't being made again after Blood block"?

It makes for a simpler purchasing decision for new players.

If a new player wants to buy cards six months ago, they had several choices:

(a) Wait and buy Core M2014
(b) Buy Theros
(c) Buy Born of the Gods
(d) Buy Journey to Nyx
(e) Buy something from Return to Ravnica block.

Return to Ravnica would obviously be a bad pick. No matter which one of the others they picked, they have no preferential options under the current rotation system, as all four sets rotate out together in fall 2015, except that M2014 would be playable for the least amount of time, yet probably have the cards they are most likely to need to build their collection long-term.

Faced with the same decision next year, a new player will have a similar set of choices, except that Louie and Core set will stay in rotation for 6 more months than Khans and Dewey will, so M2015 becomes a "safer" pick, and easier to recommend to a new player. And then in 2016, the decision becomes super-easy, as you'd always recommend to a new player to favor the newest sets (unless the cards themselves are terrible like Born of the Gods).


Icemage

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Magic: The Gathering

Born of the Gods had Satyr Firedancer. And the one White aggro-enabling card in the entire block as an under(mana)costed Mythic . . .

Theros block was terrible in general TBH. And I'm not even complaining about the Devotion decks like freaking everyone else (I love Devotion as a mechanic).

[Malacite]

Re: Magic: The Gathering

So, Izzet finally gets the card it's been dreaming of after Ravnica rotates out for the 2nd time lol. I'm a little shocked they're even printing such a good card though to be honest.





There will be many table flips over this.

[Icemage]

Re: Magic: The Gathering

So, Izzet finally gets the card it's been dreaming of after Ravnica rotates out for the 2nd time lol. I'm a little shocked they're even printing such a good card though to be honest.

There will be many table flips over this.

A Power Sink with direct damage? I don't see why anyone would be upset about this. Actually it's not even Power Sink because it doesn't force the mana payment. That card is mediocre at best. You might.... MIGHT... run it in the sideboard of a mostly-red deck to deal with sideboard dangers without sacrificing attacking power, but that's about all.

Call me when Blue/Red gets something with more teeth than Kuranos.\

---

EDIT:
Of the cards from Khans revealed so far, the ones that impress me are:

War-Name Aspirant, 1R
Creature - Human Warrior, 2/1
Raid - War-Name Aspirant enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it if you attacked with a creature this turn.
War-Name Aspirant can't be blocked by creatures with power 1 or less.
>> Defeats most walls, and likely comes in as a 3/2

Rattleclaw Mystic, 1G
Creature - Human Shaman, 2/1
(T): Add G, U, or R to your mana pool.
Morph: 2
When Rattleclaw Mystic is turned face up, add GUR to your mana pool.
>> Net +2 mana when flipped, and is still a mana producer afterward

Hardened Scales, G
Enchantment
If one or more +1/+1 counters would be placed on a creature you control, that many plus one +1/+1 counters are placed on it instead.
>> Could be really good with anything that drops +1/+1 counters on things (not to mention all these creatures that enter with Raid and +1/+1 counters)

Sultai Ascendancy, GBW
Enchantment
At the beginning of your upkeep, look at the top two cards of your library. Put any number of them into your graveyard and the rest on top of your library in any order.
>> Has combo potential

Utter End, 2BW
Instant
Exile target nonland permanent.
>> Slightly expensive. But universal instant exile solves a LOT of problems.


Icemage

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Magic: The Gathering

The card is just bad game design. Look at it this way, IM: it doesn't just stop people from playing Magic--it effectively punishes them for even trying.

Fortunately for me, I know exactly how to beat it.

(Helpful reminder for terrible people: Theros still has that bad FoF in the same colors; with Revelation rotating, it may yet be worth looking into.)

[Icemage]

Re: Magic: The Gathering

The card is just bad game design. Look at it this way, IM: it doesn't just stop people from playing Magic--it effectively punishes them for even trying.

I agree with every part of your statement except the word "effectively". XUR isn't exactly the most amazing casting cost for a "possible" counterspell. The closest card to this mechanically that you could point to would be Syncopate, and even Syncopate doesn't really make the grade in most formats.

It's definitely poorly designed, though. Cards like that make people scared of their own shadow, which doesn't make for the most interesting gameplay. It also encourages blue players to tap out, which is an even worse habit.


Icemage

[Malacite]

Re: Magic: The Gathering

^ agree on both points, and I stand by my table flip comment - it probably won't see too much constructed play, but it's sure to induce a fair bit of raging against big late-game spells like Eldrazi (which it looks like the next block will be return to Zendikar)



I think the single nastiest card revealed today by far is Ankle Shanker though, holy crap on a stick the little bugger is nuts;




Oh sure he's only a 2/2 but that effect combined with things like the Rabblemaster and Mardu Ascendancy is just bonkers. This guy single handedly gives Goblin decks a tonne of reach (he's also got a massive target painted on him though).


Clever Impersonator is also pretty damn cool. And this was also just added to the spoiler;





3/3 Flying Vigilance Haste for BWR?! Yikes, move over Skyknight Legionaire!

[cidbahamut]

Re: Magic: The Gathering

A Power Sink with direct damage? I don't see why anyone would be upset about this.

Of course not, you play Blue jackass.

Edit: I mean that in the most loving way possible.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Magic: The Gathering

I agree with every part of your statement except the word "effectively". XUR isn't exactly the most amazing casting cost for a "possible" counterspell.

You're missing the point. "Possible" counterspell and guaranteed fireball. Even if you had the mana to push your spell through, that's still a scaling loss in both tempo and life. More strikingly, it's the ultimate inevitability: it will be possible to win in response to your spell, even if that spell "can't be countered".

Also, Theros isn't exactly the fastest block in the world, and y'all are about to get into a "three-color wedges matter" set, with some Morph on top of it all. I don't think XUR will ever be a more relevant cost than it will be in the upcoming Standard.

- - - Updated - - -

Of course not, you play Blue jackass.

Edit: I mean that in the most loving way possible.

Though you state the obvious, I dip my toes into Blue about as much as I do into Red, but that doesn't render be incapable of calling shenanigans where I see them. Notably, I'm not even going to start listing all the kinds of stupid the Khan in my favorite three-color combination is. (Actually, most of the Legendary Creatures in that color combination I really couldn't play in good conscience without feeling like a total control dick, with perhaps the only exception being Ruhan.)

[Icemage]

Re: Magic: The Gathering

You're missing the point. "Possible" counterspell and guaranteed fireball. Even if you had the mana to push your spell through, that's still a scaling loss in both tempo and life. More strikingly, it's the ultimate inevitability: it will be possible to win in response to your spell, even if that spell "can't be countered".

Yeah, but at that point it's a fireball first and a possible counterspell second. A mostly-blue deck won't care about the damage effect, which leaves the mostly-red/tempo deck to be the one that cares. Except that this fireball is instant, and extra-vulnerable to counter-backs like Gainsay or Negate.

Against a deck that's already especially susceptible to burn (mono black, for instance), it's a double threat, certainly. Against a blue or white deck, not so much. It's not like we haven't seen formats with instant-blast high damage red instant game-winners before (see: Fireblast).

Doesn't mean it won't have its place in a deck somewhere, but you'll have to convince me that Red/Blue is a viable combination outside of having an instant fireball/counter and a slightly overcosted God before I can take the card seriously in constructed.

Also, Theros isn't exactly the fastest block in the world, and y'all are about to get into a "three-color wedges matter" set, with some Morph on top of it all. I don't think XUR will ever be a more relevant cost than it will be in the upcoming Standard.

Agreed. The only format I can remember that might be slower than the upcoming Standard would be the period with Mercadian Masques / Invasion blocks. Theros block is actually a bit faster than Masques block overall, and I don't think we know enough about Khans to say whether it's going to be faster than Invasion (but that's not exactly a high bar to pass either...). This is also the slowest core set we've ever seen, so add that to the pile of reasons.

I'm not saying the card is unplayable, but Mal is being hyperbolic when he says people are going to flip out over Mindswipe. It might be the card that deals the last few points of damage, but I don't feel like it will be the reason you lost the game, if you get what I mean.

Also to Mal: Since when is a 5CC 3-multicolored goblin that is shock-bait "just bonkers"? And a UWR for 3/3 Flying Vigilance Haste is... ok I guess? What you get in power you lose in mana complexity.


Icemage

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Magic: The Gathering

Doesn't mean it won't have its place in a deck somewhere, but you'll have to convince me that Red/Blue is a viable combination outside of having an instant fireball/counter and a slightly overcosted God before I can take the card seriously in constructed.

Steam Augury, Anger of the Gods, other counter/burn spells to taste . . . control decks are simply going to shift from White to Red. Heck, because of the "wedges matter" in the newest set, we might even see decks playing Mindswipe with Green in them, for access to ramp and other goodstuff (and Green's gotten a lot of goodstuff lately--it's pretty ridiculous, to be honest).

[Malacite]

Re: Magic: The Gathering

Shanker is massive utility/reach, and we've already seen there's plenty of good cards for him to help abuse.

He's no thundermaw, but he's still a strong finisher that should at the very least ensure a decent Alpha strike on turn 5. Mantis is just a better Lightning Angel, which is nice.

Dunno what to make of of Flying Crane Technique; At 5 CMC it could have been a nasty finisher but 6 is a bit much even if it is instant speed. Flying and Double Strike is nasty sure, but there are 2 problems at that stage in the game;

1) Do you have enough creatures to abuse it?

2) Does the opponent have flyers and/or removal? UWR is a bit of a wonky combo that usually tends to lean more towards control I find. If we see some more good Prowess creatures then maybe. I'm much more impressed with Narset (though using her to cheat out FCT is pretty jank).

This is why I like Ankle Shanker better though; he's tailor made for the deck he'd go in. Yeah 3 color is a bit awkward mana-wise (and it really doesn't help that Rakdos Cackler is rotating out) but he's going to get used in a deck that's very likely going for the kill on the turn he hits play anyway and if he's not dealt with should lock in the win, or at the very least making blocking a nightmare.

[Icemage]

Re: Magic: The Gathering

Shanker is massive utility/reach, and we've already seen there's plenty of good cards for him to help abuse.

He's no thundermaw, but he's still a strong finisher that should at the very least ensure a decent Alpha strike on turn 5.

This is why I like Ankle Shanker better though; he's tailor made for the deck he'd go in. Yeah 3 color is a bit awkward mana-wise (and it really doesn't help that Rakdos Cackler is rotating out) but he's going to get used in a deck that's very likely going for the kill on the turn he hits play anyway and if he's not dealt with should lock in the win, or at the very least making blocking a nightmare.

DO tell. Explain to me again what sort of goblin deck runs a mana curve that will have 5 multicolored land by turn 5 and won't lose games hand over fist? Besides, goblin decks don't need Shanker. They already have the most excellent Goblin Rabblemaster, who is not only mono-red, but costs way less and is frankly more powerful.

Mantis is just a better Lightning Angel, which is nice.

I suppose, but getting all 3 colors of mana on the table by turn 3 is a challenge all on its own. It's not a bad card, but I really think you're underestimating how difficult it will be to put into play consistently.


Icemage