Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

Obama lives on lobbiests, same as any politician. Saying you'd ban them isn't far removed from saying you'd accept stronger congressional term limits and no special interest groups funding campaigns.

These are things to say, they never get fixed.

Though for two of those issues, they're irreversibly tied to freedom of expression. I may not like lobbiests or political attack ads, but there is some good to be done even with sleazy lobbiests (if the price is right for them) and the problem with attack ads and campaign finance is no on is held accountable.

I think there was a stat somewhere that showed Obama and Romney have spent more campaigning than they'll likely ever budget for education when in office. Imagine all the good that could be done if those that claimed to have out best interests at heart actually did something with thier money to show it.

[Shygirl]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

One could argue that the US has "gone stupid" quite some time ago, in regards to who it elects. Obama's years in office shows he truly was unfit to be nominated. I have absolutely no faith left in Obama, especially on the economy. The excuse that you where giving a bad economic situation, doesn't excuse your own awful economic polices. Not to mention other countries leaders were given situations far worse than yourself, yet managed to greatly improve their nations. He has shown me little to nothing that would lead me seeing why he earned a noble peace prize, let alone being elected/re-elected to the President to a power such as the United States.

The main problem with I have with Mitt Romney is his foreign policy ideas. I wouldn't consider Obama's foreign policy in any sense of the word, but have even less faith in Romany's foreign policy. Throwing the idea that you are going to start a trade war with PRC is rather stupid. Than even at times talking like you wish to create a new cold war with the Russia Federation and the PRC, is even more stupid and even scary. Something tells me, given the current economic position of most US western Europe allies, they're not going to be too keen on supporting you on that. Especially given their trade with the two countries in this era and even going to them for economic help. None of this is going to help the US economy.

It's sad when have to wonder who is not going to be the least damaging. If the situation does not change in very big ways, the US decline is not going to be reversible. Which spells disaster for the rest of the word, now that our nations are so linked together. Not only the leadership of the nation, but the everyday people will have to make sacrifices. The US has been living above its means for some time.

[Murphie]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

Now that I think about it, isn't the entire Democratic party platform just "We're not Republicans!" at this point?

Well, the republicans aren't exactly making it difficult, but no, that's not the platform.

- - - Updated - - -

One could argue that the US has "gone stupid" quite some time ago, in regards to who it elects. Obama's years in office shows he truly was unfit to be nominated. I have absolutely no faith left in Obama, especially on the economy. The excuse that you where giving a bad economic situation, doesn't excuse your own awful economic polices. Not to mention other countries leaders were given situations far worse than yourself, yet managed to greatly improve their nations. He has shown me little to nothing that would lead me seeing why he earned a noble peace prize, let alone being elected/re-elected to the President to a power such as the United States.

The main problem with I have with Mitt Romney is his foreign policy ideas. I wouldn't consider Obama's foreign policy in any sense of the word, but have even less faith in Romany's foreign policy. Throwing the idea that you are going to start a trade war with PRC is rather stupid. Than even at times talking like you wish to create a new cold war with the Russia Federation and the PRC, is even more stupid and even scary. Something tells me, given the current economic position of most US western Europe allies, they're not going to be too keen on supporting you on that. Especially given their trade with the two countries in this era and even going to them for economic help. None of this is going to help the US economy.

It's sad when have to wonder who is not going to be the least damaging. If the situation does not change in very big ways, the US decline is not going to be reversible. Which spells disaster for the rest of the word, now that our nations are so linked together. Not only the leadership of the nation, but the everyday people will have to make sacrifices. The US has been living above its means for some time.

Your opinions are wrong. And bad.

How can you say anything about Romney's platform or position or promises or intentions when the man flat out hasn't stated any? Sure, the GOP has a platform, which mostly is anti-women, anti-gay, anti-minority in general, hugely theocratic, and worst of all, mostly built around imagined failings of Obama. I'm not saying Obama doesn't have failings, but the GOP sure as hell isn't highlighting any of them. We Built It? Way to take a comment out of context, build an entire day of your laughingstock of a convention around it and prove to everyone who has a brain that you guys have no fucking chance of winning this election.

Obama is not the best president we've ever had. He's not even the best of the last five. That was Clinton. But he's far better than Bush was, and the country is better off with him in office than we were prior to 2008. The fact of the matter was, he was dealt an incredibly shitty hand, and he's made the best he can of it. He ended one war, plans to end the other, has spent as little money as possible, has ended DADT, has removed Bin Laden, has outright said as the first President ever that he's ok with gays marrying, and has really tried his best to do what he can with what he's been given. I can't say the man is perfect, but I can say he most assuredly deserves four more years. ESPECIALLY when you consider the alternatives.

[Malacite]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

That's why Jon Stewart's bit last night about Clint was so damned brilliant.

Clint inadvertently laid bare the bullshit truth that the Republicans have been hiding all along. He broke the cardinal rule, lol, which is to NEVER tell the public what they're really planning or why. Their whole strategy has been Nazi propaganda for years now; and no I'm not saying they're Nazi's they're just using the same tactic - repeat the lie enough and it becomes the truth. Rather than face reality, and try to make any real changes, it's far more convenient to try and change the debate to suit yourself. Again, Jon Stewart & Jon Oliver had a terrific bit on this.

I'd put Obama in the top 5 for sure. Has he fucked up? Certainly, he's made a few decisions I seriously question and IMO, totally picked the wrong fight - he should have sided with Larry Summers and not Geitner but it's too late now. But the guy's consistently put out a well-thought out and compelling platform - just hasn't always done a great job of explaining it to everyone. Not everyone checks for unbiased sources or live streams of your events, Mr. President (which again, CNN is a real piece of shit for that. They cover his amazing live Q&A's, but only online - they almost never air more than a few minutes of it because, well, that would be sensible.)

Anyways, yeah Clinton did some good but he's just as complicit in this mess as Bush Reagan or Nixon and it's the fucking pot calling the kettle. Need I remind you it was Clinton who signed the repeal of Glass Stegal, undoing the last of the lessons learned after the 1920's. Clinton still has that way of connecting with people though, and that's something you just can't learn I don't think - you either got or you don't. I don't think he's all bad either, he does do a lot really good charity work - it's just hard to watch him go on about what the Right's doing when he's just as guilty as they are.

With Obama, it's just that he picked the wrong fight (health care) over the bigger issue (Wallstreet) when they were basically at his mercy. Now they're solvent and can pretty much tell him (and Congress) to go fly a kite.

tl;dr no one is perfect, but it's not a hard decision when one guy genuinely at least means well and the other guy ​is fucking nuts.

[Murphie]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

I think it says a lot that Clinton is doing commercials for Obama, but you don't see Bush doing commercials for Romney. Because one, the GOP doesn't want to remind people of Bush. Right now they're busy trying to blame Obama for Bush's failings. And two, I don't know that they could get Bush or any past Republican president still living to back him.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure that Bush went "screw politics, I'm going home" January 2009. That's probably one of the few things he shouldn't be blamed for.

[Murphie]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

I certainly am not going to blame him. I mostly try not to think about him at all.

[Raydeus]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

The fact that he isn't in prison pretty much says it all.

[Malacite]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

I think it says a lot that Clinton is doing commercials for Obama, but you don't see Bush doing commercials for Romney. Because one, the GOP doesn't want to remind people of Bush. Right now they're busy trying to blame Obama for Bush's failings. And two, I don't know that they could get Bush or any past Republican president still living to back him.

None of the last administraton was even at the convention. Hell, Michael Steele had to crash the party just to get in (he wasn't happy about it when he talked to Jon Stewart, but then he didn't really seem to give a rat's ass what they do now - he did the job he was hired for. They don't wanna show any grattitude? fuck 'em.)

[Icemage]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

There are 4 major components in the "Republican Tent".

1. The Evangelical + Methodist Christians
2. Business
3. Libertarian
4. Military

I'd say that was true of the Republican Party 20 years ago, but it's not totally accurate for describing the party today.

I think a more accurate breakdown of the Republican constituency today is:

Social conservatives (includes Evangelicals)
High income business owners / managers
Tea Party (note: they are NOT libertarians, as the only issue they agree with libertarians on is fiscal conservatism)
Mid/low income non-unionized workers

The libertarian arm of the Republican party almost doesn't exist any more. If it weren't for holdouts like Ron Paul, it probably wouldn't.

The military support arm of the Republican party is also questionable these days. A lot of older military veterans still agree with the hawkish Republican stance, but I'm not seeing the same some of solidarity from the younger generation of military personnel (and who can blame them, when their most recent theaters of operation have been Iraq and Afghanistan?). Obama won a LOT of brownie points for both taking down Osama bin Laden and getting the US out of Iraq, though he loses some of that goodwill because of the ongoing situation in Afghanistan.


Icemage

[Malacite]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

You forgot rednecks and biggots >.>


Seriously though, I think Bill Maher hit the nail on the head when he said there is no real Leftist party anymore - the Democrats have shifted to what the Republicans used to be (pre-Nixon) and the Republicans have morphed into some zealous, fascist bullshit oligarchy.

The only real reason they "support the troops" (And really, wouldn't the best way to show them you care be to only send them when absolutely necessary?!) is exactly what Ike warned about - the Military Industrial Complex. That's why the damn defense budget is so bloated. They lie and spew bullshit pretenses about "national security" when it's really about securing funding and donations from PMCs and Defense Contractors. Wars are big business. Thankfully we're not at MGS4's level of bullshit, and I honestly don't see that ever happening but it IS pretty bad and someone's gotta nip that shit in the bud (Obama's proposing a 500 billion cut over 10 years - not as much as they should but it's a start)

Seriously, the pentagon actually ends up paying for shit they didn't ask for or even need, how messed up is that?


EDIT: I'm not sure what Obama's thinking with Afghan. The only explanation (apart from possible blackmail/lobbying, these people are not to be trifled with - just ask the Kennedy's) is something Jessie Ventura said - there's over $1 trillion worth of Lithium buried under Afghanistan. Not to mention there's also a ridiculous amount of gold as well (not sure what the estimates are but I remember reading the region is a literal goldmine - might be why Russia wanted it so bad way back.)

[Feba]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

on the afghan goldmine stuff, no idea the veracity of any of that, and I doubt the US is really doing much there, but I will say that it's perfectly pragmatic to control afgahn there even if we don't see a cent of the money they make. Even if all the money goes into their own pockets and makes Afghanistan the next middle eastern country with more money than allah, it's in the US' interests that that country is using that money on business, science, tourism, pretty much anything really (where it would flow back to us) rather than on shiny new weapons and funding terrorist organizations (which would also flow back to us). Simply getting the country into a 19th or maybe even 20th century political climate would pay dividends for us.

[Shygirl]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

Your opinions are wrong. And bad.

How can you say anything about Romney's platform or position or promises or intentions when the man flat out hasn't stated any? Sure, the GOP has a platform, which mostly is anti-women, anti-gay, anti-minority in general, hugely theocratic, and worst of all, mostly built around imagined failings of Obama. I'm not saying Obama doesn't have failings, but the GOP sure as hell isn't highlighting any of them. We Built It? Way to take a comment out of context, build an entire day of your laughingstock of a convention around it and prove to everyone who has a brain that you guys have no fucking chance of winning this election.

Obama is not the best president we've ever had. He's not even the best of the last five. That was Clinton. But he's far better than Bush was, and the country is better off with him in office than we were prior to 2008. The fact of the matter was, he was dealt an incredibly shitty hand, and he's made the best he can of it. He ended one war, plans to end the other, has spent as little money as possible, has ended DADT, has removed Bin Laden, has outright said as the first President ever that he's ok with gays marrying, and has really tried his best to do what he can with what he's been given. I can't say the man is perfect, but I can say he most assuredly deserves four more years. ESPECIALLY when you consider the alternatives.

I'll agree with the overall GOP positing on issues such as abortion and gay-marriage are awful. However, the real failings of Obama has been highlighted time and again. Obama's convention, or campaign as a whole, wasn't a laughing stock? Yelling about hope and change, while given no real depth plan on how you plan to change it. What was that about raising incomes? Talking about how the US doesn't need the same old politics, it will change with your leadership, but will go on to use them in the future. Go on to show ignorance about issues else where in the world.

How did I know the old, "He was dealt a bad hand", would come up as a awful excuse for him. I'll say it again, blaming past poor policies is no excuse for your own poor polices and overall poor performance on leading a nation.

Ending the Iraq war..well done? The starting of withdraw of US forces was already agreed before Obama becoming the President of the US. Obama can't be given much credit, when Iraq was unwilling to keep extending US troop deployments. Obama of course would lead the way to war again. Just the next war there wouldn't even be much of an effort of helping that nation after the objective had been met. No, instead it would be left in a state of chaos, left to rot. Of course many people would cheer him on for this, cause it was for freedom, while Obama would oversee the largest arms deal to one of the most oppressive nations on earth.

At this point in time, Obama has little choice in regards to Afghanistan. The war is too costly and public opinion doesn't support it. Romney also supports withdrawing, though is against how Obama has openly announced it. Which I would have to agree, Obama shouldn't of made the plan public in the way he did. Of course during the war Obama polices were also awful in regard to Pakistan and no doubly helped put the two countries in the current state of relations.

I'm impressed. His spending as little as possible as only managed to rise US debt to about 16 trillion, the US debt has become bigger than its GPD. To show for it, incomes fall, very poor job performance, rise of poverty levels, "saved" companies heading for an all familiar road, impressive prices for gas given the price of barrel being distant to the records, ect. Throwing money around, which you don't even really have, is not going to fix much of anything.

DADT, there's something good.

Approving of a military operation to take out Osama bin Laden, I'm sure anyone else elected as President would of made that decision.

Yes, its good he changed his position of the issue of gay marriage. Hopefully he'll stick to it this time.

A leader should not be given support because, "he has tried his best", he or she should be given support if that person has shown to have earned it through good results. Obama performance hasn't even justified that he should of been given nomination in the first place.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

lol @ referencing gas prices. As if the president has any influence on that whatsoever.

[Malacite]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

Seriously.

Americans don't get to bitch about gas anyway. Let me just say that again, YOU DO NOT GET TO BITCH ABOUT HIGH GAS PRICES! You have by far the lowest prices of any industrialized nation, period. Ours are pretty crappy, especially when we ship so much of it to you guys, but seriously, you want to see high prices? Go to Europe. Last time I checked in the U.K. it was something like $8 a liter? Jarre can correct me on this I'm sure.