Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

[Icemage]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

Apparently Mitt Romney believes 47% of Americans are freeloaders.

There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what…These are people who pay no income tax.

I wasn't sure about whether the video was fake or not, until the Romney campaign had a chance to respond to it with:

"Mitt Romney wants to help all Americans struggling in the Obama economy. As the governor has made clear all year, he is concerned about the growing number of people who are dependent on the federal government, including the record number of people who are on food stamps, nearly one in six Americans in poverty, and the 23 million Americans who are struggling to find work. Mitt Romney's plan creates 12 million new jobs in four years, grows the economy and moves Americans off of government dependency and into jobs."

If the video was staged for faked, there would be a denial in there somewhere... and there's not.

EDIT: Here's a link to the quote from the Romney campaign at NBC News, before someone asks whether I'm taking quotes out of context or referring to quotes out of the proper timeline:

Mitt Romney Bootlegs, Clinging to the 47 Percent of ‘Entitled’ ‘Victims, Silver Spoons and Eastwood Talks (PM Note) - ABC News

EDIT 2:

Oof, and here's Republican National Party chairman Reince Priebus responding to the video:

Again... no denial. Yowza.


Icemage

[Murphie]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

As the Penny Arcade thread on the current election states "Election 2012: Mitt Romney is remarkably bad at this." Because seriously. So bad.

[Icemage]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

I did a little more looking around after seeing that 47% figure and came across this blog post from Andrew Sullivan:

Did Romney Just Lose The Election? - The Dish | By Andrew Sullivan - The Daily Beast

Tweet from @ScottThompson: Romney might want to check this map of that 47 percent, by state: twitpic.com/avrlm4 | full list: bit.ly/U5NihJ



Note: There's only about ~37% mentioned here, but about 10% of the American population don't make enough money to need to file taxes.

More more interestingly, 8 of the top 10 states are "red states" (projected to vote Republican in November), and the other two (Florida and New Mexico) are battlegrounds:

Mississippi 45%
Georgia 41%
Arkansas 41%
New Mexico 40%
Alabama 40%
South Carolina 40%
Louisiana 39%
Texas 39%
Florida 39%
Idaho 39%


Icemage

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

I think it says a lot about Americans that we can say so many bad things about the other candidate, but nothing good about our preferred one.

[Malacite]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

Anyone else see Pierce Morgan's interview with Jesse Ventura? Brilliant, loved it.

He's considering running in 2016 if he can get the support too. Please, please please let that man run & win. I loved his closing words, "Republicans are not a party, it's a mental condition." XD


EDIT: Seriously though what a complete and utter asshole. Fuck you Mitt Romney, honest to God FUCK YOU. The majority of those people who don't pay property taxes (but DO still pay income and other taxes) are either retired, disabled, or otherwise unable to really work and are living on a fixed income, well below the poverty line ($20k or less a year). It's society's responsibility to take care of the least fortunate among us. OH wait, these are the people who boo'd Ron Paul for even mentioning The Golden Rule.

I don't know what's worse, the bullshit Romney's spewing or the fact that there are literally millions of idiots cheering him on.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

If Jesse Ventura ran, I would vote for him. All these last few years have done is push me harder and harder into being a libertarian or independent. These two parties need to die. Ventura said last year that politics are like professional wrestling - they pretend to hate each other on-camera, but off camera they're working together for the same corporate interests.

I also think if anyone suggested backroom deals he would suplex them. Ron Paul could never do that.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

I think it says a lot about Americans that we can say so many bad things about the other candidate, but nothing good about our preferred one.

It also says a lot about our political system as a whole.

You know something has gone terribly wrong when the population is voting not to pick a candidate who can help with the issues we're facing, but rather we're voting based on how we can mitigate the most damage to our nation.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

Yeah, and Libertarians are totally all about shutting down corporate interests--oh wait.

(Of course, otherwise I agree.)

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

Yeah, and Libertarians are totally all about shutting down corporate interests--oh wait.

(Of course, otherwise I agree.)

We've never really given them a chance politically, so how do we know how it'd play out?

They are fiscally conservative - Me (ignoring the whole game spending thing. I'm aiming to fix that.)
They believe in less government rather than just say they do like republicans - That's me.
They believe in s strong military, but not that we're The World Police - Me, again (except for Ron Paul on that whole "ignore Iran" thing).
They believe you should be able to marry who you please, live as you please - Also me.
They're about personal liberty in general (property rights, legalizing MJ, etc.) - Me, me and me.



So mostly libertarian and I also find plenty in common with independents as well. What I can't identify with is being liberal or conservative.

[Taskmage]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

Yeah, and Libertarians are totally all about shutting down corporate interests--oh wait.

(Of course, otherwise I agree.)

Libertarians are all about shutting down special treatment, which is the area in which we find "corporate interest" so distasteful. They'd give corporations more freedom, yes, and that makes people understandably uneasy. There would be less regulation but also less collusion and corruption. It's hard to know whether the highly unregulated system they want to work towards would produce a situation we all find acceptable, but I contend that's because it's never been given a fair shot, and if it did work the result would be preferable to what we have now.

About the 47% number, I found this article which breaks it down with some good infographics: Romney's 47% Who Don't Pay Federal Taxes - Business Insider
Of that 47% who pay no federal income tax, 28% still pay payroll tax, and the remaining 18% are either impoverished, elderly, or both. The math on federal income tax is complicated and difficult to accurately generalize, but for people making $40k/yr or less, if your tax return was greater than ~10% of your gross income, you're probably one of the 47%.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

They are fiscally conservative - Me (ignoring the whole game spending thing. I'm aiming to fix that.)
They believe in less government rather than just say they do like republicans - That's me.

Don't Libertarians believe in laissez-faire capitalism? You know, that thing that kind of fell flat when excessive deregulation of the banks led to that whole housing debacle in the first place? The thing that historically made trade unions a necessity and, most importantly, the thing that let big trusts have their way with the government anyway?

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fiscal moderate, and Libertarians have tons of valid points (that Republicans could definitely stand to improve themselves by embracing instead of shunning, looking at you Santorum), but "both parties are bought out by corporate interests, therefore I'm voting Libertarian" seems like a non-sequitur to me.

[Taskmage]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

Don't Libertarians believe in laissez-faire capitalism? You know, that thing that kind of fell flat when excessive deregulation of the banks led to that whole housing debacle in the first place? The thing that historically made trade unions a necessity and, most importantly, the thing that let big trusts have their way with the government anyway?

I think you're oversimplifying the housing crisis. There were a lot of factors that contributed to the event, most of which I don't feel qualified to expound on. I do think it's fair to say that the crisis took place in spite of the regulations already in place, and exposes the inability of regulations to deal with circumstances that aren't well understood and predicted. After the fact, the government swooped in with measures that played directly to the interests of the troubled corporations, which it wouldn't have the power to do if libertarians had their way.

I don't see why the rise of trade unions is a condemnation. That strikes me as a solid free-market response by workers to the growing power of corporations. Imo, the issues with trade unions arise when they are given the same opportunities to collude with government that corporations have. For example, it's my understanding that in some states it is illegal to work in certain fields if you are not a union member. That eliminates the power of individuals to bargain for what they believe is fair compensation for their labor. Control over the labor market is shifted from unbalanced control by monumental corporations to unbalanced control by another monolithic organization that purports to support the interests of workers. If libertarian philosophy prevailed at the state level, neither of these situations could occur.

[Icemage]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

Don't Libertarians believe in laissez-faire capitalism? You know, that thing that kind of fell flat when excessive deregulation of the banks led to that whole housing debacle in the first place? The thing that historically made trade unions a necessity and, most importantly, the thing that let big trusts have their way with the government anyway?

Yup. I consider myself pretty moderate across the board, and I like the idea of capitalism, but in practice it doesn't quite work when the sums of money being made are so large that the profits can be used to change the rules (and that's true of a lot of industries, from tech, to energy, to health care, to banking). If there were a practical way to keep that from happening with the views that the libertarians hold, I would be more comfortable with it, but the hard truth is that once there's enough money in the system, the moral and ethical compasses start breaking.

To me, libertarians are right about fiscal conservatism (I mean seriously, who in their right mind isn't behind a balanced budget?) and certainly are correct about needing somewhat less government intrusion into everyday life, but the stances go a little too far off the deep end into dangerous waters.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fiscal moderate, and Libertarians have tons of valid points (that Republicans could definitely stand to improve themselves by embracing instead of shunning, looking at you Santorum), but "both parties are bought out by corporate interests, therefore I'm voting Libertarian" seems like a non-sequitur to me.

Agreed. The only reason the libertarians remain intellectually "purer" is because they're not in power, and aren't within shouting distance. If they were, they'd also be under pressure from all that money (see above).


Icemage

[Taskmage]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

I think it's fair to question whether the vigor and purity of libertarian philosophy would stand up to the seduction of power, but knowing that whoever we put in office is going to be affected by those forces, we should at least install someone who is in principle against them.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

And then watch them crumble again and again and again because they're human.