Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

[Mezlo]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

Saying you have a good health care system but are grossly understaffed is like trying to make an arguement saying am elementary school system in a certain area is really good, but it is grossly understaffed having 100 students per classroom. Being understaffed makes it bad.

[Mezlo]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

Mezlo: I think he means that Doctors have left for the US because they are paid more there.

Agreed. How good can your healthcare be if its grossly understaffed and all the good doctors and nurses have left?

[Firewind]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

I think he meant morally good due to Canada meeting the qualifications of having Universal Healthcare. I've no idea what the current state of the healthcare system is in Canada and how it compares to anyone else since I don't live there and I prefer to go on just the facts, but the best person to talk to about the state of the NHS in the UK would be Satori given that he works in the NHS.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

Well, another Canadian i know just told me their MRI was rescheduled for May 2013... so I'm just going to question the "better" thing. That's almost an eight month wait for an MRI that I could, if needed, get within two days or a week at worst. Doesn't matter what the MRI is for, that kind of wait time is unacceptable.

The difference between the USA and Canada is the difference between White Mage/Scholar and Summoner/White Mage in terms of service, its just the insurers in the US are all prissy RDMs that turn down your invites because your EXP party isn't ideal.

And being a Puppetmaster might mean you have pre-existing condition.

Might be a slightly dated analogy, Puppetmaster notwithstanding, but it is what it is.

[Raydeus]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

If delays are the worse case scenario couldn't he/she just get the MRI at an independent lab and take it to his/her doctor?

[Mezlo]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

If delays are the worse case scenario couldn't he/she just get the MRI at an independent lab and take it to his/her doctor?

What Canadians do when they need some medical procedure quickly and can't stand to wait around an aggregious amount of time in Canada, is they come to the US for it.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

What Canadians do when they need some medical procedure quickly and can't stand to wait around an aggregious amount of time in Canada, is they come to the US for it.

Because we stole all the doctors. Yes.

Despite that we still have a metric fuckton of people who can't get healthcare when they need it. That makes the system bad. This is not difficult to follow.

[Mezlo]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

Because we stole all the doctors. Yes.

Despite that we still have a metric fuckton of people who can't get healthcare when they need it. That makes the system bad. This is not difficult to follow.

We get healthcare alot faster than Canada is the point I made and BBQ concurred by relating a personal story. And LOL at us "stealing" their doctors!

[Raydeus]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

They really go through the trouble of going to the US and spending way more just because of that? That sounds very unlikely to me.

Maybe for a specialist for some very serious disease, but for most other things I seriously doubt the US is that much better than Canada for the money.

[Taskmage]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

As Stewart said in the debate, nobody goes broke in Canada or the UK under exorbitant medical bills. They may not be able to provide the same premium care in those countries that our system can, but at least their systems don't ruin lives. First do no harm.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

As Stewart said in the debate, nobody goes broke in Canada or the UK under exorbitant medical bills. They may not be able to provide the same premium care in those countries that our system can, but at least their systems don't ruin lives. First do no harm.

If you have a tumor or cyst in your brain, a seven month wait for an MRI to even spot it wouldn't just ruin your life, it may very well do damage and kill you. I'm not one to presume what perils or illnesses others have faced in life, but speaking as someone who's had said cyst in brain, experienced epileptic seizures and panic attacks and that has been hit by an SUV at 45 MPH while crossing in a crosswalk legally - I'm kinda grateful there was a system in place that allowed for fast, effective care.

I've had my problems with it. Finding the basis for my panic attacks with psychologists was like talking to auto repairmen. Everyone had a solution and it differed from the previous one. What cost me thousands of dollars could have been stop if someone had just homed in on my "sleep problems" comment and directed me ot a sleep therapist. So, yes, there are problems. I don't think anyone denies it. It isn't just a problem with insurers, but a problem of pride as well.

[Icemage]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

I'm sure immediately life-threatening situations get pushed up in priority; they're not going to wait on an MRI for someone who just suffered a stroke or other immediately debilitating situation. Someone with progressive arthritis or other slow degenerative conditions are the ones that are likely to get pushed back.


Icemage

[Firewind]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

I'm sure immediately life-threatening situations get pushed up in priority; they're not going to wait on an MRI for someone who just suffered a stroke or other immediately debilitating situation. Someone with progressive arthritis or other slow degenerative conditions are the ones that are likely to get pushed back.


Icemage

Pretty much this. You are acting like there is no such thing as Triage in a country with universal healthcare. I do have an analogy to share BBQ.

My father had a cyst on his arm that was benign. He was put on a waiting list to have it removed. It was sitting on a major blood vessel so he had to avoid damaging it, but because it wasn't immediately life threatening then he had to wait for a month. At work someone bumped past my father and more or less burst the cyst, causing him to lose a lot of blood. Not only was that injury immediately treated but he only had to wait a couple of days (mostly due to the people before him in the list being the "life or death" priority people) for it to be completely removed.

And another story:

During my first year od college I decided to give blood. Now I suffer from anaemia but had no idea at the time how it would effect my capability to give blood, but the nurses at the Uni Clinic said I would be fine. So didn't know that losing enough blood to make me feel faint could well make me pass out and could actually put me into shock and kill me if I lose more. You can probably see where I am going with this...I remember the needle going in and waking up a little later in A&E with a very cute nurse pressing a ridiculously sweet cup of tea into my hands. Now there was nothing life threatening going on there since they saw my records and knew why I passed out. They treated me but they also damn well made sure that there was nothing else wrong with me first before letting me go (they found out that I also had an infection requiring antibiotics so they prescribed me some and sent me on my way). It also gave me a fun story to tell everyone later as well.

And another:

One of my grandfathers ended up going into shock due to blood poisoning and was rushed to A&E. We didn't find out until then that he has septicaemia and gangrene in one of his toes due to diabetes and him injuring the toe without telling anyone. So basically he went from someone being treated for blood poisoning to pretty much the top of the amputation waiting list. Problem is is that by this time (he never told anyone he was ill), the doctors were basically chasing the infection up his leg and removing more and more but there wasn't anything else they could do given that the infection was already in his bloodstream and causing organ failure (leading to him and my parents deciding to sign a DNR). He died close to midnight on Boxing Day 1999 (26th December for non-Commonwealth folk). There wasn't much that the doctors could do but he was given the best treatment possible until it was clear there wasn't anything more that could be done, and even then lawyers had to be involved for the DNR.

And a final story:

I got into a fight with another member of the Rugby Team at High School during a game (lead to us both being sent off for 10 minutes), and one of my teeth was broken in the process. It wasn't life threatening at all but since it was something that needed treatment right away I got to see a dentist the next morning who fixed everything (root canal, crown, the works).

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

Waiting lists and triage don't exactly strike me as the same thing. One is born of a beuracracy and the other is constantly improvised. A seven or eight month wait for an MRI on anything seems a bit too long to me. Letting a man with a cyst on a major vessel or artery wait and allow him to work - also not the best idea. Places I've worked would put you on medical leave to avoid incident (and liability suits, obviously) and you'd get something done about that.

You guys seem to be advocating that suffering under a bigger bureaucracy is somehow better than suffering without coverage. I just see Lucy pulling the football away from Charlie Brown in both cases.

[Firewind]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

You're also completely and utterly ignoring the facts that:

1) If you can afford it you can also go private to bypass waiting lists. In the UK you can feel free to bankrupt yourself if you don't fancy waiting for non-emergency treatment.

2) You're assuming that my father, or the average working/middle class person in the UK for that matter, can afford to go on medical leave in the first place. Especially with our current Government cutting what little help there is to help people in that circumstance.