USA to Cut Armed Forces

[Shygirl]

The U.S. President Barack Obama unveiled on Thursday a new defense strategy that seeks to cut the country’s armed forces as a part of major cuts to the U.S. defense budget by almost $500 billion, RIA Novosti reported."Our military will be leaner but the world must know – the United States is going to maintain our military superiority with Armed Forces that are agile, flexible and ready for the full range of contingencies and threats," Obama told a press conference at the Pentagon.

more here- U.S. to cut armed forces – Obama | Defense | RIA Novosti

Personally I see this as a good thing as the USA not in a position to afford an army the size it is, and its time the USA military recognizes the cold war is over. Focus will go into air force and nvael forces, which is the same forces China has been rabidly expanding.

[Raydeus]

Re: USA to Cut Armed Forces

Question is if they will really cut defense expenses. Because it could be just that they are cutting people's jobs in order to give more money to contracts.

Not saying reducing military force is bad, just that it really depends on the reasons to do so. Specially in the wake of NDAA's signing into law.

[Shygirl]

Re: USA to Cut Armed Forces

I just read the military budget would still grow, just at a slower pace. Seems the American government doesn't understand that a bloated military budget might just help kill it. >.>

[Raydeus]

Re: USA to Cut Armed Forces

Higher budget with less personnel. Can you say juicy contracts? It's amazing how powerful lobbyists have become in the last decade. I mean it was bad in the past, but nothing of this magnitude.

[BurningPanther]

Re: USA to Cut Armed Forces

I was there from '01 to '07 when they looked to cutting ~30,000 bodies from each branch. Defense spending still increased during that time, even as people were enticed/coerced to end their enlistments and commissions early.

So I'll retain skepticism that that this means much for defense spending's piece of the pie.

[Malacite]

Re: USA to Cut Armed Forces

It's about fucking time.

Now, the "official" budget is somewhere around $650 billion approx, but when you factor in the CIA and others it's actually closer to $1 trillion. The U.S. spends more than the next 8 leading countries combined. And what has all that money gotten you?

Obama at least realizes the one thing I've been telling people for a while now - better kit > more boots. You can not possibly hope to ever outman the Chinese or Russian armies, should it ever come to that, but you can make damn sure that you've got the tech advantage. Hell some defense contractors have already been doing tests on powered armor for years now, and expect significant progress in the next 4~5. We'll probably never see something quite on the level of Halo's Spartans (for technical and moral reasons) but it's very likely we'll eventually see some kind of hydraulic armor that should at the very least make IEDs a threat of the past.

Even so, there are just too many bases and too much money being wasted by the armed forces & contractors for far too little gain. We're not in the Cold War anymore, the whole world isn't about to go up in atomic flames at the drop of a hat. Bring the troops home and focus on what's important - keeping an eye on threats (I'm not as naive as Ron Paul - you need SOME bases open to keep an eye on trouble areas, closing all of them would be stupid and dangerous), properly securing the borders (I mean really, once they're in the airport terminal isn't that just a bit too late? Other countries like Israel do a fine job of screening that's nowhere near as invasive either) and keeping the damn drug runners from Mexico out of the country.

Shit, what about all the inner-city gang violence? New Orleans in particular is really getting out of hand. I saw a story the other day where a god damn BABY was shot and killed just days before her 2nd birthday. Not to mention all the good that money could do towards badly needed infrastructure or lowering tuition fees. The US has some of the greatest universities in the world, yet thousands if not millions are denied access every year simply because they can't afford it - or they do go and by the time they're out it'll take them until their 40's or later to pay back the loans. Meanwhile you have China & the Scandinavian countries sending their kids to school for free (or a damn sight cheaper at any rate - last I checked an equivalent tuition in China was 1/10th the cost) and graduating far more scientists & engineers.

My point is there's no shortage of problems that the money could be thrown at with far better results. I imagine the GOP is going to have a field day with this but let them - I just wish Obama hadn't signed that damned NDAA... still can't wrap my head around that decision.

[Raydeus]

Re: USA to Cut Armed Forces

For some reason they are ramping up efforts to squeeze money out of the USA and keep people as down as possible.

The last decade has seen the US lose a big chuck of the personal liberties citizens had gained in the last century. They (the government) have used terrorism as their new Communism threat to excuse their actions, but this time they are falling hard on their own population instead of others. More censorship, bigger government with more spending with zero accountability from the government.

So, 11 years ago Clinton was impeached for lying about his sex life. But less than 4 years ago Bush was completely free after lying about freaking weapons of mass destruction, sending thousands of US troops to die in Iraq in a war that cost hundreds of thousands of local people's lives (most of them non-combatants), while also increasing debt by 200% and allowing the worst financial crisis since the great depression to get even worse. And that's not even mentioning the past decade of commercial dependency, outsourcing and inequality of trades with China for the sake of bigger profits and more laughable rebate checks.

And now you have NDAA, SOPA/PIPA and others from Obama, the threat of both martial law in the US and neighboring territories and a new Iraq war, against Iran.

I don't know, maybe it's just the distorted view of someone outside the States, but I don't think 2012's USA is anywhere near as good a position as year 2000's USA. In fact, as I've said before, it all looks very familiar to me. Why? Because that's how the 60 years under the dictatorship of one political party (sponsored by the USA for the sake of stability) looked like here in Mexico. Now, the USA still has some press freedom, specially on the internet. But with SOPA/PIPA you know very well what will happen to the free flow of information, and more importantly the last healthy economical sector in the USA.

Why did they want the middle class gone? For the same reason middle class is non-existent in third world countries like Mexico. A poor population will have less resources to revolt with, education will deteriorate and people will be even more submissive. If they control the information flowing through the internet, and "news" organizations that support SOPA manage to monopolize public opinion again the USA will turn into just another 3rd world Police state. Except this Police state has the power to influence the entire world.

Ah... anyway, I think I've been watching too many JL episodes with the Question in them.

/equip head "Tinfoilhat +10"

[DakAttack]

Re: USA to Cut Armed Forces

Let's not overreact...

...too late.

It's true our government has more corporate sponsors than a television channel, but that's the only reason they're there in the first place. They want to make money. When we figure out how to filter these people out during the elections we'll be golden.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: USA to Cut Armed Forces

Let's not overreact...

...too late.

It's true our government has more corporate sponsors than a television channel, but that's the only reason they're there in the first place. They want to make money. When we figure out how to filter these people out during the elections we'll be golden.

. . . the problem with that is, they want money so they can get elected. With all the money in politics that are current politicians have done depressingly little (arguably even negative values) about, an uncorrupt candidate has all of a snowball's chance in Hell (that is, the smoldering coals variety, not the lake of ice variety as might be more appropriate for the soulless damned we generally know as politicians).

[cidbahamut]

Re: USA to Cut Armed Forces

All I can say is: It's about fucking time.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: USA to Cut Armed Forces

[B]Shit, what about all the inner-city gang violence? New Orleans in particular is really getting out of hand. I saw a story the other day where a god damn BABY was shot and killed just days before her 2nd birthday. Not to mention all the good that money could do towards badly needed infrastructure or lowering tuition fees. The US has some of the greatest universities in the world, yet thousands if not millions are denied access every year simply because they can't afford it - or they do go and by the time they're out it'll take them until their 40's or later to pay back the loans. Meanwhile you have China & the Scandinavian countries sending their kids to school for free (or a damn sight cheaper at any rate - last I checked an equivalent tuition in China was 1/10th the cost) and graduating far more scientists & engineers.

All the money in the world isn't going to stop a senseless tragedy. Law enforcement has not and will never prevent bad things. A rapist, for example, is not going to take pause when the police have more money - they don't have little clubs where they gather together and decide to stop raping for a bit until things blow over. Someone driven to senseless violence isn't going to factor in how many cops are out on patrol. More money is not going to stop bad things. Effective law enforcement and allowing citizens to defend themselves, however, is.

Citizens with the right to bear arms - a concept the government does its best to circumvent - would make a rapist think twice about stalking a woman. Deterrence and all that. Except they give you so many hoops to jump through just to own a gun its ridiculous. Citizens are treated more as suspect than the criminals, or do you need to wait for the TSA to demonstrate that to you personally?

Throwing money at education has generally done nothing but make the state of education worse given that our system isn't a competitive one. Go on about China if you want, but they don't have outdated concepts like tenure. Do you know how many horrible teachers and professors are allowed to keep their job and afforded more privileges just for being around longer than a teacher that might work harder and have done more for their students in a shorter amount of time? I have had great teachers who worked their fingers to the bone for less and praised less for it than the teachers that had just been around longer and did little else but write what to read on a chalkboard or pop in a video.

Don't even get me started on how money magically gets allocated for administrative office air conditioning and not student buildings. Or how all this money goes into the sports division coddling C and D students while theater and music departments or student newspaper have to have fundraisers.

Here's a fun little story for you. My Drama teacher funded school plays out of his own pocket every year. For the director, for set construction and everything. All the revenue from one year's play would be bundled up into a savings account to be spent for the next year. Mothers and other students would work the refreshments. And in my last year there, the administrative end had the fucking audacity to ask for a cut of that revenue. They, at best, provided the auditorium and kept the lights on. They wanted 50% for a theater that hadn't been renovated since the 70s and lighting - much of that actual lighting also coming from my teacher's budget. The stage lights and spotlights and all that. Those leeches wanted money that was more or less rightfully his.

And don't think he didn't hand it over without a deeply implied "fuck you" to go with it. And that's before I even get into the math teachers that had to double as track coaches or even football coaches on top of that. Good math teachers, gifted with ability to make it fun and their time is wasted on multiple sports. Meanwhile I get a Biology teacher that is really just there to be a fucking football coach and waste of space the rest of the year. I had a great History teacher, he made the shit fun for everyone, but had he not taken on the girl's varsity soccer team I doubt they would have kept him around. An hell, he wasn't even thanked much for that by the system, just parents.

Yes, let's just throw more money at a system that has more than shown that it is not capable of spending it properly. There is so much wasted potential within the system.

Education doesn't need more money, it needs serious reforms.

Also Raydeus - look up the Franklin-Dodd Act. It was signed in under Clinton and its more or less the heart of why the housing market crashed. It was revised two more times, once under Clinton and then the late Bush years. Banks were more or less forced to approve loans to people that couldn't possibly pay it back or be derided as monsters. Our wonderful economic state is the result of that. Clinton doesn't get out without blame, really.

[Feba]

Re: USA to Cut Armed Forces

Other countries like Israel do a fine job of screening that's nowhere near as invasive either

ITT, we pretend that Israel's "terrorist screen method" isn't "he looks like one o' dem Ayrahbs"

The US has some of the greatest universities in the world, yet thousands if not millions are denied access every year simply because they can't afford it - or they do go and by the time they're out it'll take them until their 40's or later to pay back the loans. Meanwhile you have China & the Scandinavian countries sending their kids to school for free (or a damn sight cheaper at any rate - last I checked an equivalent tuition in China was 1/10th the cost) and graduating far more scientists & engineers.

ITT, US schools are expensive because they're "great", not because it's a ridiculous market. The solution to this is to give students even more money to pay tuition fees with.

(Also, if you want prices like a Chinese university student, go to a goddamn Chinese university. Plus when you get back you can say "I know Chinese", that'll look real spiffy on a resume)

Why did they want the middle class gone? For the same reason middle class is non-existent in third world countries like Mexico. A poor population will have less resources to revolt with, education will deteriorate and people will be even more submissive.

ITT, Raydeus makes BBQ look like the sane one

Here's a fun little story for you. My Drama teacher...

nevermind

Citizens with the right to bear arms - a concept the government does its best to circumvent - would make a rapist think twice about stalking a woman.

ITT, Americans don't already have the right to bear arms, and a huge proportion of the civilian populace armed.

ITT, there are no less-lethal weapons that could be used against rapists

(FFS, you can get pepper spray in your garden variety housing goods store here)

ITT, Japan doesn't have an incredibly low violent crime rate

ITT, violence in recent decades has gone up

ITT, we continue to pretend that the problem with the relatively insane levels of crime in the USA are an administrative side effect of poorly constructed laws, and not a symptom of a deep and numbing problem with the society, culture, and general attitude of Americans.

[DakAttack]

Re: USA to Cut Armed Forces

ITT, sarcasm

[Mezlo]

Re: USA to Cut Armed Forces

ITT means what?

[DakAttack]

Re: USA to Cut Armed Forces

In this thread.