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Debt Ceiling - The Shit Continues (very long rant)

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  • Debt Ceiling - The Shit Continues (very long rant)

    Just saw on CNN... Michelle Bachman (aka Batshit lady) is running an add now saying she won't raise the debt ceiling. Cute, so you'd rather see the country default on it's debt and effectively destroy the value of the dollar and cause hyper inflation. GENIUS!

    Not quite as stupid as Rand Paul's notion of a balanced budget amendment - something I actually agree with in principal but just doesn't work in practice.


    And now today you have Reid & a bunch of Dems going on about how Social Security & Medicare/Medicaid are off the table.


    It's a fucking miracle that China is still willing to lend money to the U.S.. All you have to do is take a quick look at Greece and wonder why in the Holy Hell would your own politicians risk the same thing when it's completely unnecessary! I give Obama credit for trying, but it seems even he can't do much. I applaud him for publicly chastising the Congress for dragging their feet on this matter and playing this ludicrous game of chicken. Too bad the fucking media jumped all over his ass for it.

    If anything he should be doing more of that - they are playing with fire and it's obscene. The Republicans are determined to turn the U.S. into a wellfare state as they nearly succeeded in doing in the 1920's, while the Democrats playing right into the Tax & Spend stereotype by refusing to make drastic, painful and necessary cuts to entitlement programs while demanding revenue increases.


    Democrats Deny Social Security’s Red Ink | FactCheck.org


    It's not funny anymore, and the solutions aren't even that drastic (at least as far as fixing the economy goes) but all I see is this (on both sides):





    Been listening a lot to Fareed Zakria & Charlie Rose lately, with guests like Ben Stein, Robert Reich and David Brooks and they've all been making very good points on this subject. I don't agree with everything they say but here are the major takeaways I found;


    - Manufacturing. It's appalling how little of what you buy is made in America these days. As disgusted as I am with him for his recent behavior, Trump got it right (and I'm paraphrasing here) "We make the best products in the world, and they cost a little more. So what if the toy costs $5 instead of $3?" Basically, it's worth extra cost for the quality but everyone's dick riding China for cheap (and often flimsy/faulty) goods.

    I forget who it was making this point (I think it may have been Fareed on The Arena) but it was innovation is key to revitalizing the economy, but all that new tech won't matter if manufacturing is in China and other countries as the other jobs supervising it all will soon follow suit.

    - More, serious stimulus. As part of the above, there really needs to be a 2nd stimulus package. There's a major demand crisis right now, which is why companies aren't hiring or building new facilities - there's no point in that if the customers won't be there. And the country is literally falling apart, so why not spend the money needed now to fix America's roads & bridges, make buildings more energy efficient etc. etc.

    You can't even compare a U.S. Airport to one in Dubai, there's a world of difference. China is spending a whopping $300 billion on high-speed rail. They're also investing heavily in green technology building solar panels. There's a lot of work that needs to be done - but the Republicans would rather spend that money on tax breaks than putting people to work.


    - KILL THE BUSH TAX CUTS ALREADY!

    Could America go the way of Greece? – Global Public Square - CNN.com Blogs

    Would Congress simply allow the Bush tax cuts to expire - returning rates to where they were under Bill Clinton's presidency when America created almost 25 million jobs - that one action would provide the federal government with $3.9 trillion in revenues over the next decade and basically solve the deficit problem. We would still face the long-term problem of entitlements, especially health care costs, like every other rich country, but the short and medium-term crisis would be over.
    The only thing they've done is increase the income disparity:

    The U.S. ranks 43rd in income inequality « Ranking America

    [quoteAccording to the CIA World Factbook, the United States has family income distribution Gini Index score of 45.0, which makes the United States rank forty-third out of one hundred and thirty four countries in that category][/quote] In the richest nation in the world? That's disgraceful.

    Oh, and don't even try to bring this up in a discussion with the Republicans because it's a lost cause.

    BLITZER’S BLOG: Bill Clinton on “class warfare” – The Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer - CNN.com Blogs


    Now, I actually disagree with Obama on the $250,000 mark and think it should be $500k minimum as $250k actually isn't a lot of money depending on where you live (California is particularly expensive to live in). Never mind the gall of the Oil Companies crying foul about having their subsidies cut.

    Exxon Mobil First-Quarter Profit Rises as Oil Demand Fuels Price Increases - Bloomberg

    First-quarter net income rose 69 percent to $10.7 billion, or $2.14 a share, from $6.3 billion, or $1.33, a year earlier, Irving, Texas-based Exxon said today in a statement.
    In 2010, they made a grand total of some $30 billion - yet they insist their tax breaks take priority over pell grants when many post secondary tuitions are rising to $10,000+. They actually had the balls to threaten the senate committee to pull their business from the U.S. if they went through with the cuts. BULLSHIT! The U.S. accounts for 1/4 of global oil consumption. I seriously doubt they'd be willing to take such a huge hit.


    - Simplify the tax code. This was one of Obama's campaign promises, to simply the code to the point where it can be filled out, on your own, in just an hour or so. Why hasn't this been done already? People shouldn't have to use programs like Quicken or go to Professional Accountants just to have their forms filled properly. It's a headache and needless expense.

    - Close tax loopholes. A full 2/3 of America's corporations paid absolutely no taxes whatsoever!

    Majority of corporations avoid federal income taxes - study - Aug. 12, 2008

    NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Nearly two-thirds of U.S. companies and 68% of foreign corporations do not pay federal income taxes, according to a congressional report released Tuesday.
    The Government Accountability Office (GAO) examined samples of corporate tax returns filed between 1998 and 2005. In that time period, an annual average of 1.3 million U.S. companies and 39,000 foreign companies doing business in the United States paid no income taxes - despite having a combined $2.5 trillion in revenue.
    To top it all off, GE actually got a tax REBATE!

    What The Top U.S. Companies Pay In Taxes - Forbes.com

    The most egregious example is General Electric ( GE - news - people ). Last year the conglomerate generated $10.3 billion in pretax income, but ended up owing nothing to Uncle Sam. In fact, it recorded a tax benefit of $1.1 billion.
    Now apparently that was due to the new green energy initiatives or something, but still. Paying nothing AND getting a rebate? The fuck is that?! Yes, there is a clause in the law with regards to not feeling that you shouldn't have to pay... I forget the exact wording of it but someone was making the point (on Real Time with Bill Maher I believe) that if any corporations have the balls to invoke that clause, the government should revoke their status as a U.S. citizen/company. Why should they share the same benefits we do if they don't want to pay their fair share?


    - Cut the defense budget. Good lord this is a biggie. Now again, I credit Obama for (finally) having the right line of thinking on this matter - Less boots, better kit. You'll never out-man China or Russia, but you can sure as all out-tech them. But this has to be done within reason - there are billions of dollars being wasted on frivolous projects that in all likelihood will never see any practical use - like the Laser Plane that got axed. Meanwhile defense contractors are getting rich and American soldiers are dieing fighting two pointless wars.

    America doesn't have to police the world, at least not on it's own. End these bullshit wars that are costing 2~4 billion a week and stick the troops where they should be - along the Mexican border. There has got to be several bases that could stand to either be shutdown or downsized. An overstretched military + failing economy has been the downfall of every great empire in history and you gotta be incredibly arrogant to think that you're the exception.


    I've got more I wanna say but this is enough for now.. been writing this while camping Intulo on my MNK lol and I'd like to do something else. As to why do I even give a damn about this, being a Canadian:

    1) Half my family is American, including my Dad
    2) I Love the U.S & Canada both, dearly.
    3) When you guys tank, we pretty much go down with you so it's in our best interest as well to see that you get your shit together. Half of our trade is with each other after all so for better or worse, Canada is inextricably linked to the United States.
    sigpic


    "BLAH BLAH BLAH TIDAL WAVE!!!"

  • #2
    Re: Debt Ceiling - The Shit Continues (very long rant)

    Lol... my eyes are burning. That was a lot ... must be quite a NM camping.

    Nice siting of sources. Nice coherent thought process. Unfortunately, you forget that reason has very little to do with American politics/policy. I would say I agree w/ 99% of what you just put down. All cept that whole bbing Canadian thing.
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    aybe, read it again, insert smiley faces, rainbows, and glitter as needed.

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    • #3
      Re: Debt Ceiling - The Shit Continues (very long rant)

      Malacite: future politician.
      Originally posted by Yygdrasil
      Originally posted by Nandito
      Ponies.

      Duh.
      You make me want to hurt things.

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      • #4
        Re: Debt Ceiling - The Shit Continues (very long rant)

        Actually, my parents have been pushing me lately to seriously consider political science courses but I just don't think I have the stomach for it. That, and I've always hated public speaking.


        What do you mean the Canadian thing, by the way? It's 100% true = If the U.S. takes a major nose dive, Canada goes along for the ride. Not to the same extent, but it does hurt us severely every time. It's the price we pay for our cushy relationship.


        I just feel like ramming my head against the wall whenever I hear Republicans talking about the debt (and Democrats defending entitlement programs that are NOT solvent and fucking lieing about it.) Like Robert Reich says, yes the debt is a serious long term issue that needs to be addressed, no one is arguing with that - but you can't do anything about it until you fix the economy.

        And if that means racking up the deficit in the short run, then so be it. Richard Quest made the point quite candidly to Eliot Spitzer on The Arena a week or so ago (again paraphrasing here) - Basically, keynesian economics (which has been proven to be the most effective as evidenced by the Clinton Administration and pretty much 1940's to the 1980's following Rosevelt's reforms) dictates that you spend your way out this recession.

        Quest pointed out that normally this would not be possible in a situation like the U.S. is currently in, however China is continuing to lend the U.S. money and interest rates are extremely low. This signifies that there is still confidence in the Country's ability to pay back it's debts.

        In other words, stop bickering and posturing like children and get off your asses & do the work you self-serving rat bastards were elected to do. Rebuild the country and put people back to work so they can afford to go out and buy things and get the economy rolling again until private sector can handle things on it's own again. America actually has a rather long history of smart government investment working with the private sector to create new industries (See: Silicon Valley & The Internet)


        Furthermore, during the Bush years, there was zero growth in the private sector - it was entirely in the public sector. Not to mention the median income for American families fell some $2000 a year. Whereas all the job growth in the Obama administration has largely been in the private sector, with the public sector taking the majority of the losses. ISN'T THIS EXACTLY WHAT THE REPUBLICANS WANTED?! He could bring Jesus back to life and they'd find some way to make it look like he fucked up.


        Now, apparently there's a "50/50 chance" that this deal Obama has on the table will go through, according to Boehner. Obama will probably have to sacrifice more than he should, again, to get something done but it's better than the alternative. And the Dems aren't helping any by taking this bullshit hardline stance over medicare. Hey, here's a thought, how about finally getting with the times and adopting a single-payer system like every other advanced nation already has.

        That's basically what Medicare is, just it's only for the elderly. As for why it's so costly, look at the demographic for Christ sake! It's OLD PEOPLE! The sickest, most expensive people to cover. Of course it's going to run up a massive cost, that's unavoidable. But that doesn't mean you can't use things like electronic record keeping and other innovations to keep down costs.

        Moreover, if a serious effort is made to promote preventive care, it dramatically lowers the cost to the system. Smoking & Obesity are probably the two greatest contributors to the high medical costs in the Country. Not to mention the drug companies that bar you from buying medicine in bulk from Canada to save money. Health Care should be a right, not a privilege for those who can afford it both for moral and practical reasons.

        But there's too much damn money in pharmaceuticals.



        Lastly, instead of Rand Paul harping about his bullshit balanced budget amendment, how about addressing more important things like campaign finance reform, senate term limits, congressional pay etc etc... It's funny how they're always looking to cut spending from everywhere else except their own pay and pensions. Please explain to me, how they can justify 6-digit pensions that can be claimed as early as age 55, all on the backs of the tax payers?

        This is one of the few points where I agree and applaud Ron Paul, for refusing to take part in it and even going so far as to call it immoral. Back when the U.S. was founded, politics was a very undesirable career. It used to be reserved for those who truly wanted to serve their country, which ought to be reward in and of itself, along with the admiration and respect of your colleagues for doing so. Now it's like winning the lottery (and believe me it's just as bad if not worse here in Canada, particularly here in Ottawa)

        I'm not against their current salaries, but the early retirement and for such large sums is just ridiculous. You should be compensated for your time in service and only for that time. (Note: I only take this stance towards The Congress - soldiers, first responders etc all deserve their pensions.)

        Oh yeah, and as far as constitutional amendments go, how about starting with banning all manner of lobbying. I don't understand how it's even remotely legal to solicit a public servant, I really don't.
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        • #5
          Re: Debt Ceiling - The Shit Continues (very long rant)

          I don't know how much longer China will be able to buy off our debt. Their economy is not doing so well either.

          bottom line, the 99% of the population will be screwed and continue to be screwed...

          Thanks Yyg!

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          • #6
            Re: Debt Ceiling - The Shit Continues (very long rant)

            The Rich have taken over.

            The question now is how long until the people realize that and rise up against it?
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            "BLAH BLAH BLAH TIDAL WAVE!!!"

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            • #7
              Re: Debt Ceiling - The Shit Continues (very long rant)

              Originally posted by Malacite View Post
              What do you mean the Canadian thing, by the way?
              Oh... I totally agree about Canada taking a nose dive along with US. I was merely attempting humor about not being Canadian and being unsuccessful.

              Originally posted by Malacite View Post
              The question now is how long until the people realize that and rise up against it?
              Not gonna happen. Not anytime soon, that is. We the people are too ruled by a fear most people don't even realize is influencing US. A fear perpetuated by our government and our media outlets and, unfortunately, each other. It inspires a need to just keep our noses down and to the grindstone. A people living in fear is a group that is very easily controlled. Many don't even see the self-perpetuated oppression. We the people are simply outgunned for a violent uprising and we are too busy at our individual attempt to "live the American dream". Even though that dream, at this point, is simply keeping one's head afloat. The courage required to rock the boat, bereft of a safety net, is underestimated and I give those who have it a lot of respect. Terror is winning. And the worst part is that terror is being used by more sources than those blatantly labeled as 'terrorists'.

              Now this is all merely opinionated speculation from some stupid guy who chose a degree in acting instead of money-making. I purposefully chose happiness instead of security. But, as an actor, it is my duty to constantly study human nature. As such, my education never ends. I feel I see trends in the flock. And these trends, at this time, are disheartening.
              Last edited by Neverslip; 07-08-2011, 12:01 PM. Reason: site misquoted somehow
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              • #8
                Re: Debt Ceiling - The Shit Continues (very long rant)

                Originally posted by Neverslip View Post
                We the people are simply outgunned for a violent uprising and we are too busy at our individual attempt to "live the American dream".

                Oh I don't know about that. If it came down to it, I'd be amazed if the military ever took hostile action against U.S. citizens, being a volunteer civilian army itself. Frankly I'm more concerned about the possibility of shithead CEOs just declaring bankruptcy and taking all the money out of their companies - something that is for some stupid reason perfectly legal last I checked and fleeing the country.

                The supreme court probably needs its authority reined in as well. Bullshit decisions such as Citizens United aren't doing the country any favors whatsoever. Neither is the Federal Reserve for that matter. But that just goes to show how much wealth has corrupted the system. My personal sense is that Obama got into office honestly believing he could do something about this, then got hit by reality hard - simply put he's making the best of a shitty situation but there's only so much the guy can do.

                That's why I get right pissed when people blindly point their fingers at him when shit goes wrong - The real power lies within the Legislative Branch, and Congress hasn't really done a stellar job of things since Bush took office.


                As far as the Media being unreliable/irresponsible goes, that's why I only watch specific people on CNN & NBC (Fareed Zakaria, Eliot Spitzer / Brian Williams , Chris Mathews) along with PBS (Charlie Rose & Tavis Smiley) & the CBC (Steve Paikin, Peter Mansbridge) (occasionally the BBC too but I'm losing faith in their credibility as well.)

                I'm glad that Jon Stewart openly said it in that recent interview he did with FOX - That it's pretty sad that the Media is so obsessed with sensationalism that it gives a Comedian more credibility and accuracy than organized news outlets.
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                • #9
                  Re: Debt Ceiling - The Shit Continues (very long rant)

                  Originally posted by Malacite View Post
                  If it came down to it, I'd be amazed if the military ever took hostile action against U.S. citizens, being a volunteer civilian army itself.
                  The fear of it happening is all that needs to be present. I would hope this volunteer military the US has would not turn on the people it protects as well. But orders are orders, right. And military squelches free will. It'd be a very interesting test on programming. I'd be just as amazed to see the people find motivation to rise up.

                  Originally posted by Malacite View Post
                  My personal sense is that Obama got into office honestly believing he could do something about this, then got hit by reality hard - simply put he's making the best of a shitty situation but there's only so much the guy can do.
                  Again. This line is chalked full of reason. The people who are pointing the fingers aren't concerned with that.

                  Originally posted by Malacite View Post
                  The real power lies within the lobbyists, who have the money to buy the future they want to serve their needs.
                  FTFY
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                  FFxi ~ (Inactive) 99DNC/THF/SAM/BLU

                  Any opinions expressed are my own, and potentially unpopular with others. Should this be upsetting, m
                  aybe, read it again, insert smiley faces, rainbows, and glitter as needed.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Debt Ceiling - The Shit Continues (very long rant)

                    Originally posted by Neverslip View Post
                    But orders are orders, right.
                    Wrong. There is such a thing as an unlawful order.


                    Also, forgot to say that the Senate absolutely needs to abolish that stupid super majority rule. I'm pretty sure the founding fathers intended for laws to be passed with just a simple majority - lord knows there'd be a hell of a lot less gridlock and shit might actually get done.
                    Last edited by Malacite; 07-08-2011, 02:43 PM.
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                    • #11
                      Re: Debt Ceiling - The Shit Continues (very long rant)

                      Huge wall of Democratic text is huge.

                      The laughable part? You applaud Obama for trying. Not like he has done any unnecessary spending since he's been in office. But let's pick a scapegoat on the Republicans. Nevermind the Dems have been running the country the last 2 years.

                      I'm never coming back in this thread again. I've noticed I'm a minority Republican on this forum, and it won't be pretty.
                      Valefor - MyLittleChocobo (Click for info!) LS Member - Ahulane
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                      • #12
                        Re: Debt Ceiling - The Shit Continues (very long rant)

                        Originally posted by Samson View Post
                        I'm never coming back in this thread again.
                        Typical.
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                        FFxi ~ (Inactive) 99DNC/THF/SAM/BLU

                        Any opinions expressed are my own, and potentially unpopular with others. Should this be upsetting, m
                        aybe, read it again, insert smiley faces, rainbows, and glitter as needed.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Debt Ceiling - The Shit Continues (very long rant)

                          Originally posted by Samson View Post
                          I've noticed I'm a minority Republican
                          Welcome to the internet. People with access to knowledge and an interest in their fellow humans tend to be liberal.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Debt Ceiling - The Shit Continues (very long rant)

                            Originally posted by Feba View Post
                            Welcome to the internet. People with access to knowledge and an interest in their fellow humans tend to be liberal.
                            I consider myself to be more of a center-left.
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                            • #15
                              Re: Debt Ceiling - The Shit Continues (very long rant)

                              Originally posted by Malacite View Post
                              I consider myself to be more of a center-left.
                              Which by American standards is liberal.

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