What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

[Yygdrasil]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

I actually went to college to study Religion. How I ended up working Operations for a major airline is anyone's guess.

I studied world religion, mythology, philosophy and medieval history. My original goal was to become a Protestant Minister. Those goals got put on hold for a number of reasons... but not for a second because I had any doubts. I study and practice a unique take on the Congregationalist method.

Answer to Question 1) Yes... Ministers can get married
Answer to Question 2) Yes... this means they have no reason to touch little boys
Answer to Question 3) No... I have never touched a little boy
Answer to Question 4) Well yeah... I guess I have... but never in a sexual way
Answer to Question 5) Yes... I'm awsome

[cidbahamut]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

Holy walls of text Batman!

I'll try to keep this brief and to the point.

I was raised Catholic but over the years began to realize that I never really found the religion for myself and was just going through the motions. I agree with a number of the values Christianity teaches, but you don't really need religion to be a good person.

There may or may not be a God out there. On the other hand I get the distinct feeling at certain times in my life that the Universe at large is fucking with my head. Other times I get the distinct feeling that the Universe is looking out for me.

What I can't stand are people who use their religion to justify being an asshole.

[silentsteel]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

Ok, I really want to join this thread, but it's really late and i need to get to sleep instead of posting the huge wall of text that I'm going to after finishing reading the whole thread cause I haven't yet. (it is really intriguing though. ^^)
Sufficent to say for now before I go to bed is that I'm a member of the church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints or known by most people as Mormon.

P.s. It's hard to type on an iPad =( lol.

[Malacite]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

Must... resist... south park video...


Actually it's interesting to note that some of the most successful companies (all in the top 10 I think) in the U.S. (about 5 of them, need to double check the numbers again) are run/have been run by Mormons. And then you got guys like Ken Jennings

[Satori]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

I'm sorry I wasnt trying to say that body being lighter is proof of a soul. I was just throwing it in there because the body is lighter. When I'm preparing a body for the mortuary I find mobilising the body a simple task and times where I'd need assistance in life once t hey are deceased it's as simple as flipping a couch cussion.

I do believe we have a soul or spirit though. I experience alot of death in my job. I think most medical professionals have a sense for death I always say I can "smell" it. After losing a patient there's a lingering sensation throughout the atmosphere. It's kind of hard to explain to those that havent experienced it or death in general. But if you'd expeienced it yourself you'd understand.
I wish I could write it off and say it was inexperience and I'll get used to losing patients. But I'm a pretty decent nurse and been nursing for almost decade so I'd guess I'm used to it by now.

My apologies if my post had confused you. I wasnt trying to imply evidence of a soul. Just point out that something I had observed leads me to believe in some kind of "cosmic / spiritual" force/entity.

I like to t hink of myself as a man of science and reasoning but the soul weight thing and the feeling myself and colleagues experience when around death makes me lean slightly to a more spiritual belief.

Where before my training I would have said there was 2 sides. fact and fantasy but sometimes I think there's a little fact in the fantasy somewhere and the black adn white merge a little to become grey.

I love topics like this with you guys. I've learnt quite alot so far. I'd love it if you all drank down my local pub I'd chat the ears off you lol.

[Taskmage]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

I have never seen a person die, but I hope I get to before it's my turn. Not because of any morbid curiosity or disillusion about the moment, just because if I miss that I think I'll have missed out on an important part of the human experience. It'd be like leaving the world without ever feeling heartbreak. If you missed out on something that poignant and powerful, did you live a full life?

I have a response I want to make to Ketaru's last post, but the text file where I've been working out my thoughts is elsewhere. >_>

Just to get some discussion rolling, I have a question for those in the room that believe in a personal God. What does God feel like? In natural environments I've sometimes had the sense that a place was alive in an almost personifiable way—like it had a spirit. I know some artistic people with more urban affinity than me say the same thing about cities or buildings—that they have a soul. I'm also aware of the lingering feeling of presence after a person or animal dies. So when religious people sometimes say things like "I could feel God in that place" or "I felt God was with me" or "I knew God was watching me," I feel like I have a general idea of what they mean, but even when I identified myself as Catholic, I never had a feeling that made me think any of those things. Is that something you experience and can you describe it?

---------- Post added at 04:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:09 AM ----------

On "how can evil co-exist with a loving God," I simply defer to the argument that it comes with the abuse of free will, and that God went with the least of all evils in this regard.

YM, I kindof get what you're doing by keeping it all in one post, but it does make your continued contributions to the thread hard to notice. I wouldn't have read this addition if I wasn't bored poking through profiles and saw you modifying the post. To your point, what do you say to causes of suffering that have little connection to free will, such as natural disaster and disease?

[Armando]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

I maintain a strictly agnostic point of view in that regard: as a human being I can't presume that I felt God any time or anywhere. Whatever God feels like is most likely behind human senses (sort of in the same way that we can only see a small section of the electromagnetic spectrum, hear a limited range of frequencies, etc.) I wouldn't rule out that meeting God would feel like that but on major steroids though.

To me saying "I felt God in that place" makes no sense though. Taking the Christian point of view, God is everywhere. If he's not, I don't think he's going to take interest in me and make a guest appearance either.

[Taskmage]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

To me saying "I felt God in that place" makes no sense though. Taking the Christian point of view, God is everywhere. If he's not, I don't think he's going to take interest in me and make a guest appearance either.

I see where you're coming from, but think of it like this: When something is everywhere we become desensitized to its presence. We only really become aware of the air when the wind blows, and in certain places it's much easier to encounter that feeling. If God exists, is omnipresent, and is perceptible by humans, it makes sense that the sensation of numinous would behave the same way.

[Aksannyi]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

To me, I feel as though God is indeed everywhere, but that sometimes you're just going to be more receptive/open to feeling him. When I'm driving to work, for example, I'm caught up in "WTF is this fuckhole doing?" and I'm generally not in tune with anything higher than trying to keep myself from getting in an accident.

Not saying that's always the case, but I find God most often when I'm vulnerable and in pain, personally. I don't find him at work, because I'm busy working. Though sometimes when it's quiet and my misery starts to seep in, I'll feel as though I'm not 100% alone. This is the best thing, when I'm not completely sucked into my misery. If I happen to fall into the hole again, it's generally too late, though at even the worst of times, I'll still reach out to God, feeling as though he is the only "person" (for lack of a better term) I have left. (Even taking away from the fact that I know there are people who care about me, on my darkest days, there is nothing you can say to me that will make me believe that.)

As for how to describe the feeling of God being with me, I can't really describe that feeling. Mostly because it manifests in different ways. Sometimes I feel a presence, sometimes I feel like I'm talking to the wind. Sometimes it's as though there's a warmth around me, sometimes I just feel at peace. And sometimes I still look up to the sky and wonder if I'm being heard at all. And 99% of the time, I feel like God's hackey sack that has been kicked around so many times it's starting to lose some of the beans inside. But I still believe he's there ... can't explain that, I suppose, but if I didn't have God, sometimes, I'd feel like I have no one.

Slight tangent, I guess, but that's the best answer I can really give.

[bookwyrm]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

Delurking to state an opinion....

Reason is what sets humanity apart from other creatures (to the best of my knowledge). To that end, one who denies reason denies their humanity.

If, indeed, God created humanity, then to deny one's own humanity is to turn one's back on God. If there is no God, then denying your humanity is still an act of self-hatred and hatred of one's fellow human.

As such, whether there is or is not a God is irrelevant, end action is the same.

If I were a God and I wasn't going to make myself unequivocally known, I, too, would design a system where belief in me was unnecessary. After all, to pull a quote from earlier:

As Marcus Aurelius said, "Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."

[NightShayde]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

To me saying "I felt God in that place" makes no sense though. Taking the Christian point of view, God is everywhere. If he's not, I don't think he's going to take interest in me and make a guest appearance either.

It could just be me ... but I interpret that a little differently. It's not so much feeling that God is in only one place ("that" place), as much as it is being more keenly aware of God's presence -- like he's always there, but you just sort of notice it all of a sudden ... like if a co-worker is standing behind your chair for a couple of minutes (trying not to laugh) before you realize there's someone right behind you. Or when you're so focused on reading a book/working on something on the computer that you completely tune out everything else around you -- then suddenly realize someone in the room is asking you a question (or not all that long ago you might have realized that the TV programming has ended for the night & gone to static).

As I mentioned in the other thread, I'm an atheist-leaning agnostic -- but there are a few places where I've felt the presence of "something," which often manifests itself in a feeling of warmth, comfort & calm. Sometimes it's in a church (though I don't think the church has anything to do with it) like Sacre Coeur in Paris. Sometimes it's standing in a little glen in an Alaskan rain forest, listening to the water droplets hitting the rocks & trees. It's not necessarily the presence of God -- but maybe the presence of some sort of "good" (for lack of a better term) energy. There are some people I know who put off that same kind of energy.

I've also been in the presence of people who send shivers down my spine in a really bad creepy way. I don't think that's the presence of the devil or any sort of demon -- but I certainly think it could be some sort of dark, evil energy.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

YM, I kindof get what you're doing by keeping it all in one post, but it does make your continued contributions to the thread hard to notice. I wouldn't have read this addition if I wasn't bored poking through profiles and saw you modifying the post. To your point, what do you say to causes of suffering that have little connection to free will, such as natural disaster and disease?

Thank you for pointing this out, and I'll take note to make additional posts whenever I think of something else worthwhile. (I was thinking about mentioning how I feel "holy war" is very much an oxymoron, but I was going to sleep at the time.)

Concerning the atrocities of natural disasters and disease, I believe that those came pre-packaged with the nature that God created, similar to the dilemma of the lion and gazelle. You might as well be asking me "why is there death at all," as far as I'm concerned.

Terrible things happen, but I do believe that, ultimately, the greater good prevails. To give additional meaning to an old motto, amor vincit omnia.

----

(On a side note, I also happen to believe that, as of late, the world just has way too many dang people on it, and this has some influence over some of my beliefs. If I'm a terrible person for it, so be it, but I do maintain that this is no excuse to be a jerk to people who are already here.)

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

"Feeling god in that place" as an idea, happens when i see people from all walks of life united in a task that helps someone or gives encouragement to someone.

I look back at the time where my parents, two lesbian co-workers, some friends and a preacher and his wife I had only just met the weekend prior joining in prayer for my recovery in the hospital to be one of those moments.

I expected my parents to be there when I got smacked by that SUV - well, when I was conscious and coherent, anyway. Everyone else I couldn't predict and couldn't be sure word carried that far, though I did make the newspapers on that, I think. Somewhere in the back pages of local news.

I can't really ever say I felt it specifically within a church building. It may be considered "God's House" but given the whole omnipotent/omnipresent thing, I think it can happen plenty of other places. If people think the church down the street is reason enough to behave better, I'll take it, though I don't think it makes God watch harder.

I think I've felt it more in the mountains, though maybe it was just that the air was cleaner and the wonder of nature played a role in it as well. That and getting away from the cities and the plains does bring a sense of majesty to anything.

[Taskmage]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

Breaking the flow just for a moment. This is a topic that's more sensitive that most, and as such it is especially important that we remain respectful of other posters, especially those with differing beliefs. As Aks said in the OP, if you don't believe it, say that. You disagree, say that. You think it's stupid? DON'T SAY THAT. Please be careful with your wording and avoid making insulting statements or implications about other members. I have no problem in this context with removing posts that disregard that.

[Taskmage]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

Concerning the atrocities of natural disasters and disease, I believe that those came pre-packaged with the nature that God created, similar to the dilemma of the lion and gazelle. You might as well be asking me "why is there death at all," as far as I'm concerned.

That's almost what I'm asking you. More like, "Why is so much suffering intrinsic to the natural world?" I might recognize that in choosing to eat meat I am inflicting suffering on an animal and choose to do so anyway, and you could argue that suffering was brought about by a misuse of my free will, but the lion, even if it was cognizant of that, doesn't have the option of preparing tofu and lentils. It must inflict suffering on a regular basis or visit suffering upon itself. It doesn't seem to be the kind of system a loving God who would ostensibly abhor suffering would create. You can always invoke the inscrutability of the mind of God and be rhetorically unassailable as far as I'm concerned, but I was hoping you or someone else had some perspective that was more intellectually satisfying.