Gun Laws

[Freelancer]

Re: Gun Laws

Its not that bad... lol

Atm I'm at my government job, using their government internet connection, and government PC to surf this here site. (+ I troll stormfront all time)

Its fiiiine.

[Jarre]

Re: Gun Laws

Back on topic it still beggers beleif why Americans are so comfortable with guns and carrying them around ./ owning them. It would scare the crap out of me to know that an untrained person is sat near me in a restaurant with a loaded gun in their bag and not knowing if they are all their or not.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Gun Laws

Back on topic it still beggers beleif why Americans are so comfortable with guns and carrying them around ./ owning them. It would scare the crap out of me to know that an untrained person is sat near me in a restaurant with a loaded gun in their bag and not knowing if they are all their or not.

No one is ever comfortable with guns around here. Owning them, carrying them and most people don't carry them. Those that do, you'd never know it. I'll never understand why you think we're just all running around shooting a pistol in the air like we're in some spaghetti western. Even rednecks and gang members know how to be discrete.

But the bigger the city, the more things get overcrowded and the more people get possessive over their space, the more guns start popping out. LA, New York, Chicago - if you want to feel nervous, go to the bad parts of those neighborhoods. Even LA or New York on its worst day I'd feel more comfortable in than Chicago.

People say the east side of my city is the worst, but I've really yet to see much bad happen even at night. I'd say my part of town is pretty balanced, but then we live near a massive church with lots of restaurants and such built near it to take advantage of the attendees there. High traffic area, so there's not much trouble here.

Or maybe they just think God keeps watch near churches and they don't want to get caught. I guess the omnipotence concept hasn't caught up to everyone yet.

I don't care for guns, personally. I'd rather have a dog, they'll make a fuss if anyone out of place is coming. The smaller the dog, the bigger the fuss, too.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Gun Laws

Even rednecks and gang members know how to be discrete.

For serious. I've never seen a gun in public. Concealed carriers do just that - conceal it. The only place I see guns are at the shooting ranges, hunting grounds, and in peoples' homes, and usually in gun cabinets. (I do not own a gun cabinet, but I also leave my rifle near the bed, loaded, since I live alone.) (And yes, the safety is on.)

There are plenty of people who own guns that have never had any sort of gun safety training, but for every one that doesn't, you've got someone who does. I know this thread is brought about by the Arizona dude, who's to say he never had any formal training? (Forgive me if that's already known, I haven't been following it because it's depressing and the politicians are spinning it which is irritating.) It's not all that uncommon. Still, the fact that he was purely a nutjob didn't mean much even if he knew perfectly well how to handle and care for a gun. And you know what - he hit his intended target, didn't he? Guns are stupidly easy to operate. The hard part is knowing when it's appropriate to use them. That is what we need.

Unfortunately, you can not regulate free will. Even if you ban guns, free will is going to cause people to steal them and shoot people anyway. You can require psych evaluations, free will is going to find people buying them on the streets and shooting people anyway. Killers are going to kill. Does a gun make that easier? Yes, it certainly does, but if they ban guns, people will find other easy ways to kill. I can drive my truck at 90 mph into the building of someone I hate, they're dead, and so's their family, too. (And maybe me, but usually the idiot drivers are the lucky ones in these types of scenarios. :/) And that's just off the top of my head. Criminals are creative. They will find a way.

And on top of it all, go ahead and ban guns, and I promise you that nothing will change. People will still get them illegally (guess how criminals are getting them now ... oh, right) and people will still shoot each other. So they're going to slap another misdemeanor on top of their life sentence for murder because they obtained an illegal firearm? Lol ... just lol. Like they're thinking about consequences in the first place. And like an additional two years is going to make a difference on top of fucking life in prison.

Bleh. I'm getting worked up. I'm honestly convinced that nothing will change. People are not law-abiding. Speed limit 55? People pass me doing 80 all the time. Buckle up? I do, but I know so many people who don't. Don't download music? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Don't leech wireless from your neighbors? Lol. Don't steal even the smallest thing? Come on, everyone in here has stolen something, if not from a store, from your parents, your sister, something, at least one time in your life. Unpaid parking tickets? Wonder how many of those exist. Child support unpaid? Lots of those, too. If you think a law is going to stop anyone but the legal gun owners from owning guns, you're delusional.

[Firewind]

Re: Gun Laws

The laws about firearms in the UK are so badly written and drafted it's just not funny. Pistols and Sawn-Offs are illegal because they can be concealed and concealed carry is illegal yet openly carrying a gun is illegal unless you have a license and permit. Shotguns and High Powered Rifles are perfectly legal for purposes of pest control but low powered rifles aren't due to the strange laws on BB Guns and Pellet Guns.

It's also perfectly legal to own an automatic rifle (AK-47 and FN FAL are easy enough to get here) but the Police can still confiscate it from you.

Back on topic it still beggers beleif why Americans are so comfortable with guns and carrying them around ./ owning them. It would scare the crap out of me to know that an untrained person is sat near me in a restaurant with a loaded gun in their bag and not knowing if they are all their or not.

You live in Lincolnshire, there probably are.

Then again as soon as I drive out of Stoke and into the countryside to some of the small market or farming towns, it goes from only idiots and criminals having firearms to being in the village in Hot Fuzz.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Gun Laws

My problem with the psych evaluation concept is you'd have to define what neurosis or mental health issues would prevent the use of a gun. The guidelines would have to be set by the state or federal government, meaning the shrink would have to basically rep for them. Do you really want disconnected, out-of-touch people deciding what is crazy for shrinks? People are a varied lot as it is.

And does "crazy" really mean you'll go out and shoot people? Is that what TV has made people believe? That if you have any sort of mental illness you might just start shooting people one day and only a mental illness can make you do it?

We live in such a pop-diagnosis culture. Trust me, I've had to deal with the ramifications of that bullshit.

[Fliegar]

Re: Gun Laws

Honestly, I think I'd rather get shot + insta-dead than get stabbed repeatedly. o_o;

[DieselBoy09]

Re: Gun Laws

My problem with the psych evaluation concept is you'd have to define what neurosis or mental health issues would prevent the use of a gun. The guidelines would have to be set by the state or federal government, meaning the shrink would have to basically rep for them. Do you really want disconnected, out-of-touch people deciding what is crazy for shrinks? People are a varied lot as it is.

And does "crazy" really mean you'll go out and shoot people? Is that what TV has made people believe? That if you have any sort of mental illness you might just start shooting people one day and only a mental illness can make you do it?

We live in such a pop-diagnosis culture. Trust me, I've had to deal with the ramifications of that bullshit.

There are certain disorders which lend themselves to a necessity of disallowing firearm ownership. While the state or fed government would have to set the guidelines, they in an ideal world would listen to the APA to offer the criteria for which mental disorders should and should not be allowed to purchase firearms for the safety of the public at large. Blatant examples would be those suffering from severe PTSD, antisocial personality disorder, borderline personality disorder and some manifestations of schizophrenia. While such a screening process might not ideally be perfect, it would be foolish to think it could be. (hell, I would even want to throw in the genetic abnormality of the super-male syndrome. XYY for those that are unaware. They display more aggressive tendencies and far more disproportionally occupy our correctional facilities. However the argument against this would be far more difficult to support as there are many who live normal healthy lives with no mental inclinations.)

As for crazy people go out and shoot people... You're right, often times they do not. In fact, as I mentioned in one of the other topics recently, those with severe mental disorders are statistically no more a danger to others than a normal individual. In fact, they are far more likely to endanger themselves. While this is true, there are also specific disorders where this is not the case, particularly antisocial personality disorder. And yes, t.v. and news stories like these do create the ideas within the public that the "crazy" individuals within society are dangerous, and its a shame as it creates a detrimental stigma. I'm also sincerely sorry that you have felt the sting of the ignorant public on probably more than one occasion and most likely will feel it again, for whatever disorder you may suffer from. However, putting that aside, there are frankly individuals that should not posses firearms due to their mental state, and there are ways to potentially screen for these things. So what is the justification for not?

Also, you're right, most people that use firearms in such a way are not the mentally ill, but it is far more difficult to find the individual with no previous history of violence, etc.... that will use a firearm against others than it is to deem a person with certain mental disorders, displaying certain symptoms unfit to own a firearm.

(Hm.... when it posted it said I was logged out, at least it posted. I was not going to type all of that again.)

[Malacite]

Re: Gun Laws

But the bigger the city, the more things get overcrowded and the more people get possessive over their space, the more guns start popping out. LA, New York, Chicago - if you want to feel nervous, go to the bad parts of those neighborhoods. Even LA or New York on its worst day I'd feel more comfortable in than Chicago.

It's interesting to point out that in those states (well California & New York at least) Gun Ownership is in the low teens.

As for what constitutes "too crazy to have a gun" I'm fairly positive there are established guidelines that can be set in place to determine this fairly quickly. If not, then a psychiatric assessment should be part of the gun/registration fees or whatever. They seriously need to do something about the gun shows too where background checks aren't even done.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Gun Laws

It's interesting to point out that in those states (well California & New York at least) Gun Ownership is in the low teens.

And have you seen their crime rates are higher?

Seems gun ownership is a bit of an equalizer in most non-border states. Places like Texas and Arizona have higher crime rates than NY and CA because of border issues to the point that deterrence from legal gun ownership isn't quite as effective. It still has a purpose, but the people coming over with illegal weapons aren't as scared.

We all know what they answer is to solving that, its just a matter of getting the morons in DC to not feel racist for securing the border.

[DieselBoy09]

Re: Gun Laws

Gun violence in the United States by state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just put up for homicide stats.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...ownership.html
And here are gun stats on ownership.

[Jarre]

Re: Gun Laws

You live in Lincolnshire, there probably are.

Then again as soon as I drive out of Stoke and into the countryside to some of the small market or farming towns, it goes from only idiots and criminals having firearms to being in the village in Hot Fuzz.

A structural engineer owns a shotgun, he has to keep it in a locked cabinet, he can only carry it on his farmland and use it for shooting rabbits or grouse, if he shoots anything else he is in rbeach of his liscence and would be arrested for affray. If he was to walk nto teh village with one he would be arrested for possession in a public place and arrested. He guns have to be kept in a gun cabinet that is fully secure and locked (and the liscencing authority inspect the cabinet before he can renwew his liscence)

In the Uk guns are taken very seriously, I remember in nottingham 2 12 year olds were playing with a BB gun in the amrket square, it had no pellets in but they were pointing it at people and going "bang". next thing they know 2 ARV's (armed response vehicles, specialised officers who are trained with firearms and only officers who can carry a gun in the uk) turned up and pointed real loaded pistols at them and arrested them. They both got 3 months in a jouvenile prison for possessing replica guns, having them in a public area and intending to cause a panic

firewind which part of the Uk are you from where an AK-47 is legal to own? any automatic firearm is illegal and you could get 10 years for possession whether it works or not.

In the Uk you can also get 5 years or more for carrying a knife in public with a blade more than 2 Inches long and you have to be 18 before you can buy a set of kitchen knives and they must be boxed and only on you if your carrying them from the shop to your home.

[Firewind]

Re: Gun Laws

Said knife laws are also incredibly badly written. Technically it's now illegal to own and sell cutlery in the UK if you read the law. The whole carrying thing is bullshit because according to the law, you are carrying a concealed knife and therefore are breaking the law.

Same if you look up gun laws in the UK. Pistols are actually illegal, as are low powered rifles, which means that our Olypmic Pistol and Rifle shooting teams must train in Canada because simply training means they are breaking the law. Though the laws say nothing of high powered rifles or modified automatics. I'm not saying that a judge would accept that as an excuse but still, the laws are VERY badly written.

And Nottingham is notorious for gun crime and how easy it is to get a weapon there. Just because you can't walk into a shop and buy a gun doesn't mean you can't obtain one.