Nut job shoots Arizona Rep. Giffords in the face, 6 killed in rampage

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Nut job shoots Arizona Rep. Giffords in the face, 6 killed in rampage

It's one thing to know that a person has mental issues and its another to institutionalize him. Serial killers are insane but before they start killing people why didn't someone put them away? Because you can't just decide that someone might be a danger sometime in the future so we better put them in an institution. Also, we do not know all the particulars about this case. He may have been screened while having issues in college but passed it. Not all crazy people are stupid, in fact, the most dangerous ones are quite intelligent. I just don't think it's fair to be pointing fingers and blaming people when you do not know all the facts,

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Nut job shoots Arizona Rep. Giffords in the face, 6 killed in rampage

I just don't think it's fair to be pointing fingers and blaming people when you do not know all the facts,

Unless you're the sheriff, apparently.

Sorry, but I don't ever hear talk radio guys suggest, imply or even directly say to their listeners take violent action against political leaders. Not Limbaugh, Olbermann or anyone. This twit equates a public distaste for government overreach as "anti-government sentiment."

They are not the same thing. They are not even close to the same thing. The person who wants less goverment interference in their daily lives is not anti-government. This kid was anti-government, he didn't like any of it, any was too much in his mind if his statements and reading material are anything to go by.

If the sheriff was concerned about the facts of the case, he wouldn't be on television constantly dropping sound bytes about talk show hosts. All he's concerned about doing is covering his own ass and assigning blame elsewhere.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Nut job shoots Arizona Rep. Giffords in the face, 6 killed in rampage

It's his job to investigate and like I said we do not know all the particulars in the case. I think the sherriff is kind of a douche myself but I'm just talking about the case in general. The young man could have been diagnosed and put on meeds but didn't take them. My grandsons father was like that. His wheels were not going down the right road and I feared for my grandson. I did everything I could to try and get it brought to the attention of the authorities. They looked into it but he would just take his meds for a couple weeks before he'd have his blood drawn and they couldn't prove he wasn't taking them. He snowed them over in the oral exam and it was so frustrating. This man thought he had special powers and was an Ice God. He tried to kill himself at least 4 times in 6 years and I feared that one time he might do a murder/suicide with my grandson. And yet there was nothing they could do, he maintained joint custody until he died recently...ironically it wasn't a suicide, he had a massive myocardial infarction from his arteries being clogged at the age of 31.

Oh and Mal, they passed a law that was put into effect as soon as it was signed. It will stop the protesters from disturbing them for an hour before the funeral, during the funeral, and an hour after the funeral.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Nut job shoots Arizona Rep. Giffords in the face, 6 killed in rampage

Oh and Mal, they passed a law that was put into effect as soon as it was signed. It will stop the protesters from disturbing them for an hour before the funeral, during the funeral, and an hour after the funeral.

Much as we all hate the folks at Westboro, this seems like a bad idea. It sets a precedent for disallowing protests, which I always thought were protected to some degree by the constitution (right to assembly and all that).

What we really need is some good old fashioned common courtesy and respect.

[DakAttack]

Re: Nut job shoots Arizona Rep. Giffords in the face, 6 killed in rampage

For what reasons would you have to protest a funeral? I suppose large graveyards would be hazardous to anybody passing over them during a zombie outbreak, but that's all I can think of.

SAY NO TO ZOMBIE BOXES

[Aksannyi]

Re: Nut job shoots Arizona Rep. Giffords in the face, 6 killed in rampage

BRAINNNNNNNSSSSSSSSSSSSs.

[Malacite]

Re: Nut job shoots Arizona Rep. Giffords in the face, 6 killed in rampage

I would agree, however, when looking at the murder rates of countries with very strict gun laws such as U.K., most of Europe, Japan, etc... you will find a sharp decrease in comparison to the United States.

Still reading the last page but this caught my eye.

In Japan it's illegal to own any form of weapon.

It's one thing to know that a person has mental issues and its another to institutionalize him.

Except that in Arizona they have a state measure that allows you to petition someone for a psychiatric evaluation.

Sorry, but I don't ever hear talk radio guys suggest, imply or even directly say to their listeners take violent action against political leaders. Not Limbaugh, Olbermann or anyone.

I'm pretty sure Rush has a couple of times, and Glen Beck has openly talked about wanting to Choke the life out of Michael Moore and kill him. I don't know how he got away with that either. Free Speech only goes so far, that was an outright threat, even if he was just musing to himself and his listeners (but then Beck's also a hypocritical moron which is neither here nor there with regards to the subject at hand.)


Did Obama already speak ? I had the TV off and may have missed it. Ugh and now you got that twat Palin in on it all too. Once again she shows what a moron she is by trying to calm the situation down only to bring up an anti-semtic term with regards to a jewish congresswoman. Good job you fucking idiot. For once she was actually on-message and I was even ready to applaud her, until she uttered the term "Blood Libel".

/facepalm

Speaking of whom though, she's now breathing on her own which is a good sign.

---------- Post added at 04:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:02 PM ----------

Much as we all hate the folks at Westboro, this seems like a bad idea. It sets a precedent for disallowing protests, which I always thought were protected to some degree by the constitution (right to assembly and all that).

Bullshit. People need to stop with the slippery slope arguments, as most of them are usually thrown out in court anyway. All they're doing is making noise and drawing attention to themselves with anti-gay hate speech while defaming the dead. If they hate America so god damn much why don't they go move to Iran or Pakistan, and see where their Christian-fundamentalist attitudes will get them. My guess is suddenly America wouldn't seem so bad/oppressive.

As for the Sheriff, I'm not sure what to make of him. I thought he had a very sensible and well-presented argument on Parket-Spitzer last night on CNN. I do agree however, that it's utter nonsense that the local authorities did nothing about this guy beforehand. Like BBQ said, he gets kicked off campus for troublesom/threatening behaviour, with clear signs of mental instability, and nobody looks into it?!

[Feba]

Re: Nut job shoots Arizona Rep. Giffords in the face, 6 killed in rampage

If they hate America so god damn much why don't they go move to Iran or Pakistan, and see where their Christian-fundamentalist attitudes will get them.

Because America is a free and open society, and that means we protect everyone's opinion and right to speech, especially the fucked up assholes.

If you don't let WBC protest funerals, the first amendment is pretty much useless-- which is why this is going to be great for Phelps. They never get PR victories, but they do get legal victories, and the state of Arizona just gave them another one. Frankly, the lawmakers were fucked from the beginning-- either they vote in favor of the WBC, or they vote in favor of a law most realize is only temporary and will wind up costing taxpayers millions in court.

[DieselBoy09]

Re: Nut job shoots Arizona Rep. Giffords in the face, 6 killed in rampage

Still reading the last page but this caught my eye.

In Japan it's illegal to own any form of weapon.

Yeah. That was part of the point.

---------- Post added at 06:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:32 PM ----------

Except that in Arizona they have a state measure that allows you to petition someone for a psychiatric evaluation.

A psyche evaluation doesn't get you that far. They do an eval. If the person is a threat to themselves or others then they are monitored, usually for a very short period of time (one day to a week). Forced institutionalization is very very very difficult to get since the reforms of the 1980's and before, and truth be told it is probably for the best. Also, as I mentioned in my previous comments, unless the person has a known history of manifesting their violent tendencies, then the observational period is significantly less.

[Malacite]

Re: Nut job shoots Arizona Rep. Giffords in the face, 6 killed in rampage

The service is now underway, for anyone tuning in.

[Karinya]

Re: Nut job shoots Arizona Rep. Giffords in the face, 6 killed in rampage

In Japan it's illegal to own any form of weapon.

How do they define that? Because I'm pretty sure I've seen people on Japanese TV shows with knives -- real ones, too. The show was called "Iron Chef." A knife that can cut meat can cut people made out of meat.

Historically, restrictions on owning weapons have led to the development of martial arts based on using things that aren't obviously weapons, like agricultural implements and even sticks. Weapon control can only go so far.

Of course, it's pretty hard to kill 6 people and wound 14 with a stick, even with extensive training, unless they hang around and keep trying to fight you.

I'm pretty sure Rush has a couple of times, and Glen Beck has openly talked about wanting to Choke the life out of Michael Moore and kill him. I don't know how he got away with that either. Free Speech only goes so far, that was an outright threat, even if he was just musing to himself and his listeners (but then Beck's also a hypocritical moron which is neither here nor there with regards to the subject at hand.)

Not to mention the now-infamous crosshairs map. Palin names Giffords as a target and then acts surprised when someone else pulls the trigger? Maybe, since it's Palin, I could believe she's dumb enough not to expect that, but any reasonably intelligent person would know that it might happen. Hasn't she ever heard of Thomas Becket?

I do agree however, that it's utter nonsense that the local authorities did nothing about this guy beforehand. Like BBQ said, he gets kicked off campus for troublesom/threatening behaviour, with clear signs of mental instability, and nobody looks into it?!

Who said they didn't look into it? They didn't lock him up, that's all we know. For every person that acts scary and then kills 6 people, there's about 10,000 who act scary and then do bupkis. You can't lock them all up (in fact, it's pretty disturbing to lock *any* of them up for things they haven't done yet; at least in Minority Report they had actual psychics and not just people guessing.) And mental illness is one of the top excuses used by actual tyrannical governments to lock people up for political reasons, so that's another good reason not to make it easy to lock up "crazy" people who haven't actually done anything violent yet.

It's the same problem as spotting terrorism in advance: the base rate is so damn low that no matter what you try to use as warning signs, almost every alarm is a false alarm.

[NightShayde]

Re: Nut job shoots Arizona Rep. Giffords in the face, 6 killed in rampage

Good news on the Gifford front. She's moving her arms and legs, can open her eyes, and responding to her friends and family.

[Tickmeoff]

Re: Nut job shoots Arizona Rep. Giffords in the face, 6 killed in rampage

I had no idea she actually survived.

[DieselBoy09]

Re: Nut job shoots Arizona Rep. Giffords in the face, 6 killed in rampage

Not to mention the now-infamous crosshairs map. Palin names Giffords as a target and then acts surprised when someone else pulls the trigger? Maybe, since it's Palin, I could believe she's dumb enough not to expect that, but any reasonably intelligent person would know that it might happen. Hasn't she ever heard of Thomas Becket?

They weren't crosshairs! They were surveyor symbols!

[Malacite]

Re: Nut job shoots Arizona Rep. Giffords in the face, 6 killed in rampage

She's still in critical care, but she's communicating now and has started her physical therapy.

I also want to applaud The President for his speech. Though I think he drew it out/over did it a little with the dramatics, it was a very touching speech. Just like Campaign Obama. Now if the guy could just keep that up regularly. But again that's for another thread.


What a horrible bit of irony for that little girl though... born on 9/11, grew up to be highly talented with a very promising future only to have her life cut short by yet another tragedy. Fate truly is a harsh mistress.


Have you been following all the recent reports on the shooter too? This guy is seriously fucked up. They're not even sure now if he was even aware what he was doing was real, because he's been having lucid dreams where a person is aware they're in a dream and can manipulate it. Then there's the plethora of disturbing messages and behavior exhibited before the massacre. My guess is he'll probably be executed though, a lot of the experts agree an insanity defense isn't going to fly as they've found written evidence that he planned this out and knew full well what he was about to do was wrong.

Also of interest is the extended magazines he was using were made illegal by Bill Clinton, but the law lapsed in 2004 with almost zero opposition. Again though, the feeling among experts is that guns are just too ingrained in American society to ever really seriously contemplate a major reform. Actually, guns sales have spiked. More specifically, glock 19 sales, the same handgun used in the shooting, were up over 60% in some areas. I don't even know what to say to that. At this point I don't think even some mass state-wild killing of millions of people would be enough; shit like this is sadly going to keep repeating itself.