How Inconsiderate Human Beings Can Be Truly Knows No Bounds

[Yellow Mage]

Anti-gay group organizes in Anoka-Hennepin schools as community deals with gay suicides « Minnesota Independent: News. Politics. Media.

“When experiencing these problems, you can’t go to your parents, where you face rejection from those you love the most.” She continued, “You can’t go to your church if you are in condemnation from a religion you’ve always embraced.”

“You can’t go to your community.”

“It says that it is better for students to go to their home or their community or their church. I can’t go to any of those. I go home and my parents tell me I am cursed. I go to my church and I am rejected and condemned. I go to my community? What community do I have to go to?”

. . . just sick and wrong. There are seriously no more words to describe this. Just sick and wrong.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: How Inconsiderate Human Beings Can Be Truly Knows No Bounds

"The group also wants the district to “promote the Day of Truth” each year.

The Day of Truth is an event organized by Exodus International, a group that says it can turn gay people straight through Christian prayer. It encourages students to bring the Exodus message into schools one day before the Day of Silence, an event that draws attention to violence against LGBT people."

Is this a public school? I believe it is. Well one of these parents of a gay student should take this to court if it goes through. Christian prayer does NOT belong in a public school.

Yes YM, it is very wrong. Young people are dying and the ones that should be protecting them aren't doing anything to help them. I had a very good friend have to move out of state in order to work because she tried to help a gay young man. She was a high school counselor, a very good one, and when she helped this young man deal with some issues related to being gay they fired her for promoting homosexuality. Her name was muddied so badly that she couldn't get a job in any of the larger school districts in the state. This is unfortunately common in the upper Midwest. Some people just need to let go of their issues and realize that we are talking about human lives here.

[Kailea]

Re: How Inconsiderate Human Beings Can Be Truly Knows No Bounds

this crap is getting out of hand -.- This is just sad, I support Homosexuality, because one of my best friends is gay, and all the anti-gay stuff is mostly complete bull crap.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: How Inconsiderate Human Beings Can Be Truly Knows No Bounds

This whole issue is wrong on every level and every side of it.

The motives of both the "Christian" group and the LGBT (whatever order it goes in, no matter how you slice it I'll end up thinking about a sandwich) group are both misguided.

Sorry, but "gay suicide" is just like all other suicide. And I would know because I'm one of many that's lost friends to suicide. If they're committed to ending their life, they've convinced themselves there are no options that and that no one will understand or care about them. They are not looking for an audience and are just waiting for the right time to go out when no one can stop them. I'm not even sure they care to be found, but it could be part of it, because they know they'll have hurt people when they are found dead.

And if someone stops them, it is a damn stroke of luck that they did without putting themselves at risk.

The ones that keep acting out, the ones that are always caught in the act - those are the drama queens. And you know what? I hate them more than the ones that actually succeed.

I could go deeply into my personal experience with losing a friend to suicide, but suffice to say, what you end up feeling is a mix or rage and sorrow. There are no answers to be had, no closure and you will never have a real reason for why it happened. Its all one big secret you'll never get to uncover. And as friends and loved ones go, you'll hate them for it. You'll hate them because often, that's all you have left of them to hold on to aside from knowing that not only did they not attempt to reach out for help from you, but they closed the door on the idea of doing so.

Would a local church run a suicidal teen out because they said they were gay? I somewbat doubt that. When you see someone in need in that way, your first inclination is to get them aid, not "fix" them.

These "Christians," though? Disgusting. And the LGBT group isn't any less disgusting for using the matter for their own gain a well. These were just some messed up kids that needed help. Their worries about it being about their sexuality don't make their cases dramatically different from the others. They all have given up hope on others for one reason or another.

My best friend in high school probably had more reasons than I knew:

Divorced parents.
Rejection letters from every college he applied to.
Grades slipping.
Bullies
Girlfriend dumped him.

And there was probably more. I wouldn't know because even being his best friend he communicated none of this to me. I found out after it was too late, I just knew about the bullies, I tried to help him ignore them Suffice to say he probably felt the world kept on shutting the door on him and so he decided to shut the door on it and everyone that cared.

And I do hate him for it. I have no sympathy. I can't, he wouldn't let me have it.

EDIT: And just to add - I almost lost my sister to suicide a few years back. She tried to OD when her husband left her and she found out about the other two women. To think she couldn't turn to me, couldn't talk to me - nothing made me angrier than that and I damn well let her know it. I did make her cry while she was laid out in that bed recovering. My friend Richard was a big part of the reason why.

Needless to say, she straightened up.

[Feba]

Re: How Inconsiderate Human Beings Can Be Truly Knows No Bounds

And the LGBT group isn't any less disgusting for using the matter for their own gain a well.

Goddamn the gays, and their agenda!

What is the gay agenda, you ask? Why, the idea that gay people want to turn your children gay is just plain silly. Anybody who knows anything about the gays know that they prefer to rape children.

No, the truth behind the gay conspiracy is far more shocking. It's all a secret plan by the French to keep themselves relevant. THINK ABOUT IT. WITHOUT GAY PEOPLE, FRANCE WOULD BE IN THE SAME BOAT AS SPAIN.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: How Inconsiderate Human Beings Can Be Truly Knows No Bounds

Goddamn the gays, and their agenda!

What is the gay agenda, you ask? Why, the idea that gay people want to turn your children gay is just plain silly. Anybody who knows anything about the gays know that they prefer to rape children.

No, the truth behind the gay conspiracy is far more shocking. It's all a secret plan by the French to keep themselves relevant. THINK ABOUT IT. WITHOUT GAY PEOPLE, FRANCE WOULD BE IN THE SAME BOAT AS SPAIN.

Right. Suicide is a topic ripe for lulz, Feba. What will you follow up on? Abortion? AIDS? C'mon, work that audience.

Now, why don't you piss off for now and when you can come back to this topic and take it a bit more seriously, I'm sure we'll be more than happy to hear whatever you have to say. The fact of the matter is, we have two groups of assholes on this issue and they're parading around religion and sexuality when we're talking about some kids who have decided they have no one to turn to and want to die.

These groups are not helping anyone and if they're not helping anyone then what are they doing?

Getting attention for themselves, that's what. They're not there to help the kids, that's for sure.

I mean "gay suicide?" There's some magically special difference here? No, there's not. Gay or straight, we're talking about some people that have lost hope. That should be the concern and the issue. The concern shouldn't be that they're gay or not Christian, but that they're wanting to eat bullets, dive off buildings, hang themselves, slit their wrists or try to OD.

[Feba]

Re: How Inconsiderate Human Beings Can Be Truly Knows No Bounds

These groups are not helping anyone

Except the LGBT groups that fight for equality and against discrimination, as well as providing a community for people who would otherwise feel as if all of society as shunned them.

You're really blaming the victim here. I'm just pointing out how fucking ridiculous that is. To claim that the LGBT community and organizations are only making an issue of this because they have some ulterior motive (as you've suggested with plenty of other civil rights groups in the past, such as the NAACP), and that the discrimination and exclusion they suffer is not a big deal is insane.

Yes, gay suicide is different, because gays are one of the last groups it's ok to deride and cast out, in America anyway. It's a problem that could be stopped, if these people didn't feel like they were completely excluded. Not that gay people wouldn't still commit suicide, but if you can stop the ones that happened because of their homosexuality, it would be a leap forward.

[Ziero]

Re: How Inconsiderate Human Beings Can Be Truly Knows No Bounds

Would a local church run a suicidal teen out because they said they were gay? I somewbat doubt that. When you see someone in need in that way, your first inclination is to get them aid, not "fix" them.

...yes, they would. That's one of the biggest problems here. A little gay/lesbo kid goes to church, says "I'm gay" and the church thinks there's something wrong with them and tries to fix it. Did you not see the part of the article where the anonymous group of parents not only wants to promote a day of prayer and faith healing in a public school to *fix* those dirty dirty homosexuals? Or how they're protesting that the school doesn't offer enough programs to try and *fix* children who think they're gay?

Seeing as most major religions currently condemn homosexuality, often times enough the church is one of the worst places you can go for help. Because instead of turning you away outright, they instead tell you there's something wrong with you and try and "fix" you, which often leads to even more guilt when it doesn't work and even more suicides.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: How Inconsiderate Human Beings Can Be Truly Knows No Bounds

Except the LGBT groups that fight for equality and against discrimination, as well as providing a community for people who would otherwise feel as if all of society as shunned them.

Yet, how does that excuse them from exploiting tragedies such as suicides of teenagers, if that's indeed what had happened?

I don't see enough evidence to say that the LGBT group mentioned (GET) inappropriately used the opportunity to advance their agenda, but it's hardly difficulty to believe the temptation may be there. (But, can it really be called exploitation if the suicide teens' family join in? lol.)

BBQ overplayed the possibility, while Feba prematurely dismissed it as not harmful, I think.

* * *

Did people here actually read the quoted school policy?

The policy sounds like a cautious attempt to avoid getting the organization mired in political murk that usually accompany hot button issues, while emphasizing the schools have the responsibility and the inclination to deal with bullying--which really is a problem larger than just LGBT. It's conservative in the original sense of the word--that of moderation and caution--and not to be mistaken with far-right Conservatism (capitalized).

A bit cowardly? Perhaps. Evil? Hardly seems so.

* * *

As for the "Parents Action League", as long as they don't come out of the shadow (or the closet? har har) and show some political muscles, the school district would likely just ignore them.

The worst part, however, is how that article was a really, REALLY weak on how this group had much of anything to do with the school's stated policy or its actual practices; seems like the paper just wanted to toss in a conspiracy to spice up the story.

It's also really poor journalism to slant the story by describing the "Parents Action League" with negative words like 'anonymous', 'shadowy', etc. instead of using more neutral descriptions as the writer has done for the LGBT group Gay Equity Team. Not every source deserves equal respect, but whenever possible, journalists should let the source's own words and actions be the guide to to the readers on their veracity.

Overall, it's a slanted article designed to elicit an emotional responses instead of provoke intelligent thoughts--a poor example of what journalism should be.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: How Inconsiderate Human Beings Can Be Truly Knows No Bounds

The article is a poor example of journalism, I'll agree to that.

I was just too distracted by people being poor examples of humanity to care about that very much.

[Ziero]

Re: How Inconsiderate Human Beings Can Be Truly Knows No Bounds

Did people here actually read the quoted school policy?

The policy sounds like a cautious attempt to avoid getting the organization mired in political murk that usually accompany hot button issues, while emphasizing the schools have the responsibility and the inclination to deal with bullying--which really is a problem larger than just LGBT. It's conservative in the original sense of the word--that of moderation and caution--and not to be mistaken with far-right Conservatism (capitalized).

A bit cowardly? Perhaps. Evil? Hardly seems so.

I actually can't fault the school itself for it's policy, it's really not their place to discuss whether you're gay or not or whether it's right or wrong. And it's not even like the topic is outright banned from being discussed in the actual school itself, it's just saying that it's facility should remain neutral on the subject and let kids make up their own minds.

It's also really poor journalism to slant the story by describing the "Parents Action League" with negative words like 'anonymous', 'shadowy', etc. instead of using more neutral descriptions as the writer has done for the LGBT group Gay Equity Team. Not every source deserves equal respect, but whenever possible, journalists should let the source's own words and actions be the guide to to the readers on their veracity.

Well the "Parents Action League" is an anonymous group, which in and of itself shows what kind of people are behind it. While it may not have any real strength or support, the fact they came into this situation is an important addition to the story. Especially with their outrageous claims of what the school should do. Of course the school won't listen to them, but I doubt they'll listen to the gay/lesbian group either.

The main thing to take away from this is that teachers were involved in the bullying based on sexual orientation, which goes directly against the school's own policy. And these 'teachers' still have their jobs.

[cidbahamut]

Re: How Inconsiderate Human Beings Can Be Truly Knows No Bounds

I'm with BBQ on this one. The issue at hand is that someone killed themselves and that's being lost in the politicking of both groups and the article's swift dismissal of the tragedy itself.

[Mhurron]

Re: How Inconsiderate Human Beings Can Be Truly Knows No Bounds

I'm with BBQ on this one. The issue at hand is that someone killed themselves and that's being lost in the politicking of both groups and the article's swift dismissal of the tragedy itself.

One group wants education to prevent bullying (won't work but whatever) and a change in policy to give teachers the ability to do something about it.

The other group wants to force a change in sexual orientation of gay students.

Kids kill themselves all the time, its sad but it happens. When one group wants to do something to address the causes and another wants to make them worse, that someone killed themselves is only forgotten by one group.

BBQ wouldn't be complaining if it was a disabled kid who killed themselves and civil rights group came forward and suggested allowing (making) teachers stop systematic bullying because of the disability and educating students about disabilities.

[cidbahamut]

Re: How Inconsiderate Human Beings Can Be Truly Knows No Bounds

Maybe, but the article rubbed me the wrong way because it focused solely on the political maneuvering while completely omitting the story of the person who committed suicide.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: How Inconsiderate Human Beings Can Be Truly Knows No Bounds

I was just too distracted by people being poor examples of humanity to care about that very much.

I'm too distracted by how 3 students' suicides were used to paint a picture of systemic failure for a large, 40,000+ pupil school district in protecting LGBT teenagers from bullying. All with innuendos and weak logic instead of sound facts and arguments, too.

Suicide rate amongst LGBT youth is higher than the teenager population as a whole. Do we even know that this district's LGBT student suicide rate is in line with the national average or higher or lower? Without that information, how can the writer ethically imply the district made insufficient effort?

Maybe, but the article rubbed me the wrong way because it focused solely on the political maneuvering while completely omitting the story of the person who committed suicide.

Well, political maneuverings over the policies of a large school district is worthy of news coverage. But, the coverage provided in that article was shallow and emotional rather than enlightening and objective.

* * *

Teen suicide is a difficult, protracted problem which I suspect plagues most countries, to which a lot of efforts have already been devoted.

I'm all for taking a bit of school time to talk about sexual orientations (esp. in this hyper-sexed society we live in), but it's naive to the extreme to think something like that would directly prevent suicides amongst the LGBT student population.