Wave of Muslimphobia?

[Malacite]

Re: Wave of Muslimphobia?

Religion is, at it's core, a way to control people. Always has been, always will be.

That's not to say it hasn't been without it's benefits (Rule of Law I would say being the best) but I just can not resign myself to any religion on the grounds that they are all inventions of man. As such I'm agnostic, at least until such a time that science can ascertain irrefutable proof of the Universe's origin.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Wave of Muslimphobia?

I think you guys are confusing "religion" with "church".

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Wave of Muslimphobia?

Offensive? Let me guess, yours isn't a business, but many of the others (if not all) are.

I would have a very hard time calling most religious beliefs "businesses."

And as for the argument that it's "just a method of controlling people," people being stupid is largely independent of spirituality. It's a relatively simple matter to exploit a mass of people that lack spiritual beliefs as much as those that have them. Just appeal to either in a way that makes them feel superior, and you have their attention. I would have a very hard time believing that this has not ever been done to both sides, either.

[Aeni]

Re: Wave of Muslimphobia?

You could burn them all you want, it wouldn't make one bit of difference. Man needs to believe there is something greater than himself out there to be able to put life and death into context. There is no Utopian society, no matter how much we dream of one. Go watch The Book of Eli and put that into context with what you are saying. It's makes a pretty good point about what would happen.

To add to your post, here's something interesting:

Is Believing In God Evolutionarily Advantageous? : NPR

[Murphie]

Re: Wave of Muslimphobia?

But, the Book of Eli was a terrible movie. With Denzel Washington in it. That's like two terrible things at once.

And the comments section for that NPR article are alternately infuriating and disappointing.

[Rodin]

Re: Wave of Muslimphobia?

Ok, I have a little spiel on the world in general. Why is it that every other country/culture in the world feels that America needs to get out of the way of their culture and that we're the insensitive ones? That we're so obnoxious and backwards in our views? That we're the self-proclaimed "World Police"? I think that other countries are insensitive of OUR culture. Muslims are free to worship in our country just like every other religion. I do believe it is a bit insensitive to build a Muslim-Run community center (notice I didn't say Mosque, because I researched it), headed by an Imam that doesn't denounce a group that has been known to use terrorist tactics. I do believe that burning Korans is wrong, in many ways. I am happy that they stopped. But in my opinion, building a 13 story community center near the world trade center, is equally as insensitive as opening a big ass YMCA complete with a McDonalds two blocks from Masjid al-Haram.

[Feba]

Re: Wave of Muslimphobia?

Why is it that every other country/culture in the world feels that America needs to get out of the way of their culture and that we're the insensitive ones?

They don't.

But way to stereotype the entire rest of the world at once! That's not easy work there.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Wave of Muslimphobia?

Why is it that every other country/culture in the world feels that America needs to get out of the way of their culture and that we're the insensitive ones?

Because we are the insensitive ones. I seriously doubt the majority of Americans have any clue as why we're disliked in the Middle East, if they even know we're disliked--that's how dense we are.

Muslims are free to worship in our country just like every other religion.

Not really, judging by the hoopla created from a proposal to build an Muslim community center two blocks from "ground zero". If it was any other mainstream religion, would there have been such furor?

And, Islam is about as mainstream as a religion can be in the world--it's either the second most popular religion or the first, depending whether one classifies Catholics as Christians or not. (Don't laugh; where I live, a very large number of the (Protestant) Christians do not consider Catholics to be Christians.)

in my opinion, building a 13 story community center near the world trade center, is equally as insensitive as opening a big ass YMCA complete with a McDonalds two blocks from Masjid al-Haram.

First, let's not exaggerate; the Muslim community center proposed is only a (small) portion of the Park 51 project.

Second, there's no reason to oppose a Muslim center on the basis of it being a symbol of Islam, unless one claims there's a strong link between the mainstream Islam and the 9/11 attack.

Remember that bit about how you don't understand why the rest of the world think we're insensitive? Well, in saying the center shouldn't be there, you're more or less implying that Islam is linked with the terrorists--something which the mainstream Muslims probably would be upset about, don't you think?

I mean, how would you like it if a bunch of hysteric-emo Muslims accuse America of being a nation of murders just because a few rogue soldiers went out of control in the fog of war? I mean, WTF, the majority of us aren't even in the military and none of us wanted innocent people to die--why the heck should we be blamed?

Well, I'd imagine that's pretty much how they feel whenever Americans speak as if there's a link between Islam and 9/11. They'd probably want to give us the middle finger whenever they hear that--or whatever is the equivalent in their gesture vocabulary.

[Rodin]

Re: Wave of Muslimphobia?

Because we are the insensitive ones. I seriously doubt the majority of Americans have any clue as why we're disliked in the Middle East, if they even know we're disliked--that's how dense we are.

Well, there's many reasons why western culture is disliked in the middle east. The fact that we live lavish lifestyles (tell that to the people in Dubai). That we don't worship the same way they do. (So we should hate them cause they don't worship the way we do?) Or could it be that we armed and trained an entire regime of militants (Bin Laden and the Mujaheddin) to fight the Soviet Union, then left them to govern their country the way they wanted to, but without pumping millions of our own money into them?

I don't believe we are the insensitive ones.

Not really, judging by the hoopla created from a proposal to build an Muslim community center two blocks from "ground zero". If it was any other mainstream religion, would there have been such furor?

And, Islam is about as mainstream as a religion can be in the world--it's either the second most popular religion or the first, depending whether one classifies Catholics as Christians or not. (Don't laugh; where I live, a very large number of the (Protestant) Christians do not consider Catholics to be Christians.)

No, there wouldn't have been, but seeing as what happened on 9/11 your point is moot. I'm sure if the Protestants or Catholics bombed the WTC with jets, you'd see uproar over a Church being built.

First, let's not exaggerate; the Muslim community center proposed is only a (small) portion of the Park 51 project.

Second, there's no reason to oppose a Muslim center on the basis of it being a symbol of Islam, unless one claims there's a strong link between the mainstream Islam and the 9/11 attack.

Remember that bit about how you don't understand why the rest of the world think we're insensitive? Well, in saying the center shouldn't be there, you're more or less implying that Islam is linked with the terrorists--something which the mainstream Muslims probably would be upset about, don't you think?

I don't completely oppose a Muslim center being built, but couldn't you agree that the choice of the location is a little insensitive? When choosing the spot to build it, whoever planned it to be there should have KNOWN that it would cause a huge uproar. This causing tension on both sides of the fence, and ultimately taking our progress towards understanding back a few steps. I feel bad that mainstream Muslims have to suffer because of the actions of so few.

I mean, how would you like it if a bunch of hysteric-emo Muslims accuse America of being a nation of murders just because a few rogue soldiers went out of control in the fog of war? I mean, WTF, the majority of us aren't even in the military and none of us wanted innocent people to die--why the heck should we be blamed?

This happens daily. There's a saying. "Kill a child, create a terrorist." If we do even one thing wrong over there, we may turn more innocent Muslims into terrorists. When I was in MCT my SSgt told me a story about a little girl in Iraq, about the age of 7. She would come by his patrol whenever he was in town and play, and ask for candy. One of the days his patrol came into town, he didn't see her until he was in the town square. She was walking towards him, slowly, with a bomb strapped to her chest. Almost the entire town is in the market. He kept telling her to stop. His interpreter kept telling her to stop. She said "They told me not to stop." He had no choice but to shoot the little girl in order to save many more lives. I bet you nobody concentrated on the fact that he saved many lives that day, but more on the fact that he shot a little girl. We're vilified in the middle east no matter what we do.

Well, I'd imagine that's pretty much how they feel whenever Americans speak as if there's a link between Islam and 9/11. They'd probably want to give us the middle finger whenever they hear that--or whatever is the equivalent in their gesture vocabulary.

There is a link between Islam and 9/11. Islamic Extremists attacked the US. As I said before, I hate to see mainstream Islam suffer because of the acts of so few. And as long as these extremists connect themselves to Islam, there will always be a tie between 9/11 and Islam. Albeit a misinformed one.


And Feba, did you know that the Greek Economy is in the toilet right now, and the majority of Greeks blame the US for it? (I heard this with my own ears from a Greek Soldier who had come to train at my base.) I wasn't stereotyping, I was generalizing how a lot of the world views us. I'm sure you've seen it. Many cultures paint us as lazy, over-indulging, fat, narcissistic, cavemen. Have you ever encountered french tourists? It's funny to hear them speak in french, thinking that no American can comprehend their language. They say some VERY rude things about us. When I got to work with other Nations Militaries, I enjoyed learning about them, and you have no idea the stereotypes they have of us. And as a whole, I think many bleeding heart Americans are devaluing what it means to be an American, because "other countries" don't like our culture. We're all the same really. We're all scared of what we don't know, and many of us won't extend the olive branch, we expect it to be given to us on a silver platter. That's how human beings are. I just feel America is being bastardized for what pretty much all other developed nations have become, or are striving to be.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Wave of Muslimphobia?

Personally, I'm sick and tired of the US going into these countries under the guise of humanitarian aid to spread our rhetoric. Or going in forcibly and doing the same thing. We say we are there to help "stabilize" the country. We are really there to f**king assimilate them.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Wave of Muslimphobia?

There is a link between Islam and 9/11.

No. No there is not. I'm sick of this god damn war on Islam

Islamic Extremists Terrorists Criminals attacked the US.

[NightShayde]

Re: Wave of Muslimphobia?

Islam has no more to do with the 9/11 attacks than Christianity has to do with Fred Phelps and his merry band of whackos.

We need to stop blaming the religion and start blaming the crazy motherfuckers who think blowing people up is a reasonable and blessed thing to do.

[Rodin]

Re: Wave of Muslimphobia?

No. No there is not. I'm sick of this god damn war on Islam

Censoring out the truth won't make it any better. Yes, they are criminals. But they claim they did it for Islam. It is a FACT, that Islamic Extremists plotted and carried out the 9/11 attacks in the name of Allah. If you really want to make a difference. Teach people what Islam is really about. Just like how many people see only innocent people being killed by Americans, we only see a guy on a video camera in a cave preaching about how the infidels (As we see it, americans) must all be exterminated.

And TheGrandMom, I couldn't agree with you more. I have too many brothers over there right now, and I worry about them all the time.

---------- Post added at 01:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:55 PM ----------

Islam has no more to do with the 9/11 attacks than Christianity has to do with Fred Phelps and his merry band of whackos.

We need to stop blaming the religion and start blaming the crazy motherfuckers who think blowing people up is a reasonable and blessed thing to do.

Unfortunately, Christianity has everything to do with Fred Phelps views. He and his congregation is an example of a Christian Extremist Group. I'm not saying that Extremism is only limited to Islam. It's everywhere. And I not once blamed Islam for the attacks, I blamed Islamic Extremists. Had Bin Laden simply gathered up the Taliban, and picketed outside Comic-Con, I'm sure nobody would think twice about Islam. But unfortunately, he vilified it. One act UNFORTUNATELY, painted a picture in the minds of the American people.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Wave of Muslimphobia?

Saying that religion is responsible for already insane people is about as asinine as saying Doom, Quake, or freaking Mortal Kombat is responsible for already insane people.

Both cases, people want to attack a scapegoat, especially if the already insane person had also already killed themselves in the process.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Wave of Muslimphobia?

Saying that religion is responsible for already insane people is about as asinine as saying Doom, Quake, or freaking Mortal Kombat is responsible for already insane people.

It's like you're reading my mind.