Our friends at Westboro Church have decided...

[Feba]

Re: Our friends at Westboro Church have decided...

You know, because you might get pulled over for speeding, you might get into an accident, you might get knocked out and need to go to the hospital - anything can happen to you and without your information, less is able to be done in a timely fashion.

1- If you're caught speeding, you're driving, and you're already required to have your DL on you for obvious and constitutionally sound reasons. Not an argument. Also, if you're caught committing a crime, you're legally required to give reasonably identifying information (Name, DOB, and address IIRC) upon arrest and booking. ID may make life easier on the cops, but it's in no way legally required for just walking around.
2 & 3- If you go out into the world full of fear every day, I feel sorry for you. I'm not saying there aren't advantages to carrying it everywhere, but it's not legally required.

Oh, and if I'm taking my ID, I'm taking my wallet. I'd say there's a far higher chance that I would have my wallet lost or stolen while out and about than that I would be in a situation where my ID is required for vital medical care. I do usually take my cellphone however, and that's an even more useful means of contacting people since it has numbers of people close to me right there. If anyone looked at my ID, they'd have no clear means of contacting anyone else; the address on the ID is frequently uninhabited, which would require lengthier research time.

In general, might my lack of ID pose a small threat to myself? Sure. But it's not the government's place to say you have to have something on you for safety. I personally keep a small penknife on my keychain. I find it insanely handy. I'd hardly say that anyone leaving the house without their penknife deserves to be harassed by the police.

Keep on getting wound up over the Al Sharpton version if you want to.

And keep making unconnected racially charged comments if you want to. Meanwhile, those of us with a brain are going to read the law instead of Drudge Report.

Here, this is the fact sheet that the Government of the State of Arizona put out: SB1070 - 492R - Senate Fact Sheet

What's the number one item on the list? That Police question anyone who they believe might possibly be an illegal immigrant. This is where the inevitable and unconstitutional harassment of American citizens comes on. Also note that, contrary to your claims, this is explicitly noted to be any legitimate contact, not those related to crimes. I know it's hard to imagine, but there are actually people here unlawfully who are good, upstanding people, not criminal scum. So you having to do something to get the police involved means pretty much leaving your house. Or not leaving your house, if your neighbors dislike you.

Also see number seven: Law Enforcement agencies are liable for harassment in the courts if they don't enforce this as fully as any citizen with enough money and free time to sue feels like it should be. This means that officers are either being forced to harass people on the basis of their race in order to avoid a lawsuit, or forced into lawsuits that will take away resources that could be used to actually fight crime.


Really, BBQ, I know it's hard to imagine, but not only are latinos not all criminals, we don't all care about sports either. I have no clue what sports teams, if any, Arizona has. I haven't given business to a sports team in at least a decade. And you know what? Hell, let's say I don't give a shit about any latinos. Fuck 'em all, right? I'm still not going to travel through Arizona, because it's a very real threat to my security. And I'd still avoid supporting them when I can, considering this isn't just an unforgivable attack on civil liberties and the constitution, but it's an attack on my civil liberties. I'm not giving money to government that would persecute me if given the chance.

[Malacite]

Re: Our friends at Westboro Church have decided...

So if there were a magic fix all for weight, the people who would be crawling over each other trying to get their hands on it wouldn't be a financial motivation, but our "want people to be fat overlords" (?????) would keep it from getting to market?

This is another of the dangers of the health nuts-- they promote distrust of medical science. Even where their cures aren't directly harmful, they encourage people to delay professional medical aid, and to not believe it when they do seek it. The idea that there's some cure out there that "they" don't want you to know about.

I was simply implying that Greed has a bad history of standing in the way of progress.

[DakAttack]

Re: Our friends at Westboro Church have decided...

ITT panties in a twist.

[Lmnop]

Re: Our friends at Westboro Church have decided...

To go back a few pages, I want to agree with Feba about something: non-big-city USA is horrid. The town I grew up in is terribly racist but I never really knew it 'til high school 'cuz... well... we're predominately white. It's a shock to hear my mom talking about the Obama election (my parents still live in said town), saying how people discuss loudly and anywhere (she cited the grocery store and gas station) about how they don't want some stupid N***** running for president.

This would be par-for-course if it were Alabama. But I'm talking about a town where a day-trip to Chicago is entirely feasible.

Still cracks me up when I see this billboard on the way to visit my parents:

http://www.covenanteyes.com/blog/wp-...otherwoman.jpg

---

But thanks for the approval of treating those of us who don't come off as perfectly white as second class citizens, BBQ. Ooh, I know! Let's just have ID badges that Latino Americans can sow to their clothes to distinguish themselves.

That's hardly fair. I didn't read the rest of this INCREDIBLY OFF TOPIC post yet, but this is a low blow. You know he has a point. Honestly, it wouldn't be so bad if they just required ALL Arizona citizens to always carry a federal ID card (for all I know, that probably is the law and I don't know it because all I hear is "prejudice against the latino community"). Then maybe finally we'll catch those slippery, 80-year-old illegal Jewish immigrants!

WWFD, if you were the state of AZ?

>>> I created a new tag for tracking Feba's opinions. Make sure to use it in all heated threads!

[Feba]

Re: Our friends at Westboro Church have decided...

That's hardly fair. I didn't read the rest of this INCREDIBLY OFF TOPIC post yet, but this is a low blow.

No, it really isn't. He's suggesting that if you don't wear your ID everywhere, you're asking for trouble. Sure, he's suggesting that everyone carry ID; you can have varying opinions on that, but the idea that people of a subclass should carry it or face harassment from law enforcement is very much what he said. Whether I have a card on me has nothing to do with whether or not police should harass me. Unless there's some other legal need for a license (Driving or operating other machinery; I'd assume Fishing and Hunting in most states), you shouldn't have to worry about how police will treat you if you don't have it.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Our friends at Westboro Church have decided...

I don't get it. Why would you be so against carrying ID? Inconvenience? Or just as a reason to get up in arms about being required to do something? Like wearing your seat belt? I never go anywhere without my ID. I really don't get what's so terrible about having to carry ID.

I don't think cops are just going to stop people on the street and bug them to see their ID. Maybe if the person is loitering. Maybe they need ID to enter a government building, like a courthouse or the Social Security office. Just going to stand on a street corner and require ID to cross? Come on, that shit won't fly, that's pure abuse of power.

Will it happen? Maybe, but it will be shot down quickly. People get more outraged about rights infringement than about the fact that millions of people are here illegally and being a huge drain on our tax dollars.

[hexx]

Re: Our friends at Westboro Church have decided...

I don't get it. Why would you be so against carrying ID? Inconvenience? Or just as a reason to get up in arms about being required to do something? Like wearing your seat belt? I never go anywhere without my ID. I really don't get what's so terrible about having to carry ID.

I don't think cops are just going to stop people on the street and bug them to see their ID. Maybe if the person is loitering. Maybe they need ID to enter a government building, like a courthouse or the Social Security office. Just going to stand on a street corner and require ID to cross? Come on, that shit won't fly, that's pure abuse of power.

Will it happen? Maybe, but it will be shot down quickly. People get more outraged about rights infringement than about the fact that millions of people are here illegally and being a huge drain on our tax dollars.

What he's complaining about is that a CERTAIN GROUP of people are REQUIRED to carry, in addition to standard ID's, an EXTRA set of documents showing they are legal USA residents/citizens.

I honestly find it hard to believe I'm agreeing with Feba here, but he makes a good point. If some of you really cant see the discrimination here, then you need to get your eyes checked.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Our friends at Westboro Church have decided...

As for carrying identification, I rarely do. I don't drive anymore so I'll slip my credit/debit card in my pocket and I'm off. I wouldn't have anything to worry about in AZ though...

[Aksannyi]

Re: Our friends at Westboro Church have decided...

If you have a valid US driver's license, you are a citizen of the United States. They don't just hand those out. If you're legally here, what's so bad about sticking your green card and/or visa in your wallet? Do you need much more than that? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem like they're requiring you to carry a binder full of paperwork with you everywhere. Hell, even when I got pulled over without my insurance card once, they gave me 30 days to show up at the police station and prove that I was insured.

Maybe I'm not fully understanding the law here. Maybe immigrants have more than just their work visa or whatever, I don't know. But shouldn't that be enough, honestly? And I've never seen a visa, but I can't imagine it's cumbersome. If it is, then maybe we could start to remedy that - make up ID-sized visas or something. Again, I don't know everything, but to me it doesn't seem that horrible.

As far as racial profiling goes ... if the shoe fits ... Sorry, I'm not that concerned with that sort of thing. As far as I'm aware, in order to question these people, they have to have been breaking some law or giving cops probable cause for questioning. Standing around on their front porch or shopping at Wal-Mart wouldn't exactly count. Will some cops maybe invent reasons to pull suspicious people over? Yeah, but if you think they don't do that already, well, you're delusional.

For what it's worth, my last name is a Mexican last name, and if you ask me my name, I'll pronounce it in Spanish. I don't look like your typical Mexican, but the way I pronounce my name, it's easy to assume that I may be Hispanic. (I'm not, I married into it, and then divorced out of it, but meh.) I wouldn't get too bent out of shape about it. I'm a legal citizen - born and raised in PA, proudly served in the Army - but I'd be glad to provide my information, because I'm not breaking any laws by being here.

I guess I'm one willing to step back and see the greater good here. I'd rather some illegals get deported than let them continue to be a drain on the system. Racial profiling will always exist - it did with blacks for years, it did with middle-eastern people after 9/11, it will with Hispanics. I'm honestly not going to lose any sleep over it.

[hexx]

Re: Our friends at Westboro Church have decided...

As for carrying identification, I rarely do. I don't drive anymore so I'll slip my credit/debit card in my pocket and I'm off. I wouldn't have anything to worry about in AZ though...

Exactly, and that's the point we're trying to make here. Or at least, I am.....


Edit in response to Aks: No Aks, a driver's license isn't enough. Even if you provide one, anyone suspected of being an illegal immigrant (i.e. latino's who look latino) would be required to provide additional documentation. Now tell me, is that fair?

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Our friends at Westboro Church have decided...

Exactly, and that's the point we're trying to make here. Or at least, I am.....

Yes, thats the point I was making too. To me its sickening.

[Feba]

Re: Our friends at Westboro Church have decided...

It's not that carrying ID is evil, it's that thinking that one specific subgroup of people should especially have to worry about carrying ID is incredibly discriminatory. If everyone in the US were required to carry a federally approved ID, it would be an incredibly stupid, draconian measure, but legally it would be far better, so long as it wasn't designed to target some group of the population.

I don't think cops are just going to stop people on the street and bug them to see their ID.

The thing is, cops already harass people and abuse their power in lots of places, and get away with it. I'm not saying cops are bad, most of them aren't, but not only is giving cops more leeway for discrimination a very bad thing, the AZ law enforces discrimination.

but I'd be glad to provide my information, because I'm not breaking any laws by being here.

This is the old "If you aren't doing anything illegal, you have nothing to hide" argument. It doesn't sound terrible, until you realize that it takes away any and all right to privacy.

I guess I'm one willing to step back and see the greater good here. I'd rather some illegals get deported than let them continue to be a drain on the system. Racial profiling will always exist

So let me get this straight-- Racism is a less serious problem than some financial difficulties?

Really, Askyanni, I'd expect better from you. Maybe you "have a hispanic name", and maybe people think you're hispanic, but that doesn't get anywhere near people thinking you aren't American. Hell, I knew kids who had Mexican accents despite growing up in America, simply because that's who they were around.

I'm not going to play the "ignorant whitey" card; I honestly consider myself white for most things. But the fact is, if you're a pure white American, chances are you don't really have any appreciation of how bad racism is. It's great that you were never discriminated against, but acting like it's "No big deal" is terrible.


Will racial profiling probably continue in to the future? Yes. So will theft, murder, rape, and fraud. That doesn't mean we should just accept them.

[Jarre]

Re: Our friends at Westboro Church have decided...

It beggers beleif how these people think they know better than anyone else and sickened by them picketing a funeral, as if the family arn;t suffering enough. They should all be shot. I let people who want to be religeous be religeous, i have no quarms with them, its those that force it down your throat and tell you that you will die or are not worthy of being a human because you don;t beleive in god, well sorry all I say to you is Fuck off and grow up.

[Malacite]

Re: Our friends at Westboro Church have decided...

Next thing you know you'll all be wearing name tags

[Balfree]

Re: Our friends at Westboro Church have decided...

It beggers beleif how these people think they know better than anyone else and sickened by them picketing a funeral, as if the family arn;t suffering enough. They should all be shot. I let people who want to be religeous be religeous, i have no quarms with them, its those that force it down your throat and tell you that you will die or are not worthy of being a human because you don;t beleive in god, well sorry all I say to you is Fuck off and grow up.

the westboro church is ANYTHING but religion though, let's not even compare them to what religion is supposed to stand for.

jesus is all loving, there is no hate in jesus, that is what christian religion is about, even if he is hypothetical, jesus did sacrifice himself for love and these guys are only sending hate messages.

not a christian myself, far from that.. very, but i think i know what jesus is and hes not a guy who hates, at least.