Does SE enforce policy against HNM linkshells that bot?

[Zoltar]

I put this in off-topic because it's more of a mixed discussion. Long story short, my EG LS doesn't camp kings. Their policy is this: We don't camp against LS's that bot, because to beat them you too have to bot, and we don't do that. I respect that very very much and am thankful for that. However, it makes me angry because this puts everyone in the attitude that even if we have ToD on HNMs, nobody is willing to go out.

I'm not a tattletale or anything like that, but botting (and when I say that, I mean for claiming HNMs) is against terms of service. Does SE watch these HNM shells at all? These shells basically sell abjurations/rareex gear because nobody else has a choice but to.

If you're in this current situation or have something to share about it, please let me know. Reason I say all this is because it looks like summertime we'll be changing our schedule a bit and I'd like us to go after some of these HNMs in hopes some of us can get weapons we'll never see with people cheating.

Would appreciate any advice/discussion on this, just don't be a sarcastic ass about it, that's all I ask. Keep it on topic, thx

[Mhurron]

Re: Does SE enforce policy against HNM linkshells that bot?

SQUARE ENIX Support Center

"If you have witnessed players moving at unusual speeds or otherwise exhibiting suspicious behavior causing disruptions in game play, please contact a GM so that the matter can be investigated.

GMs may approach players during the course of these investigations. Your cooperation is appreciated.

...

How to Place a GM Call
If you have witnessed behaviors outlined above or have been directly affected by these actions, please contact a GM. Select the "Help Desk" -> "I want to report a violation of the PlayOnline Member Agreement" and place a call.

The Special Task Force
The Special Task Force is dedicated to stopping the use of both third-party programs and RMT-related activities. All data gathered by our GMs is also investigated by our Special Task Force. The Special Task Force allows us to take action against 3rd party program users and RMT-related activities in a manner that would not normally be possible using only GMs.
To report an issue directly to the Special Task Force, please visit the official website at, PlayOnline.com, and select "Service & Support" then "Email Support" and click on the "Report to Special Task Force" link."

Don't like it? Do something about it. SE does not higher thousands of people to sit and watch every little thing people do. Sometimes you might actually have to do something.

[Nuriko]

Re: Does SE enforce policy against HNM linkshells that bot?

HNMs are notorious for requiring bots to compete, though ... if they cared to, and could ID the bots easily, I'm sure the STF could just clean them out (until the botters made new sets of characters, these ARE the people who paid something like $2000 for a bot after all).

I suspect half the problem might be the difference in detectability between things like pos-hacking or passing through walls and things like claim-botting (which is just inhumanly fast and well-timed).

[ShepardG]

Re: Does SE enforce policy against HNM linkshells that bot?

Botting sucks, I agree, but it's going to happen. SE won't change the way ground kings, other HNM spawn, and that will always allow people who use 3rd party programs to fire off their claim macros at pre-determined times, to do just that.
How do i know SE won't change it? Cause this discussion has been on going for 5 years.

SE's answer wasn't to change ground kings, but to make their rewards accessable through Einherjar.

SE can't detect when someone presses a macro, it runs it's course the the internet, with the written code of when the button was pressed is reported and compared to the other 80 reports of button presses. you want to beat a botting linkshell? Get 3 full alliances of players, clear out all the mobs in the area, (if in aery for instance) and have people just spam their claim macro. Flash,stun,provoke,etc. having over 50 people without bots is going to give you better odds of your "claim time" being registered before anyone elses. bot or not.

Sound un-realistic? that's because it is. and it took SE 5 years to even put gear in that's remotely better than an E.Body (noctornous mail, situational of course) It goes back to the structure of their bussiness. SE isn't going to change (read: spend more money)something that is making them money even if it's straight dicked up un-fair/stupid.
-Shitty graphics? >>> sorry ps2 players would be out of luck, so that's out of the question
-Horrible instanced events that only one group (or 3 now, fucking Fiat Lux) can do at once??? >>>> sorry not spending more money on servers to support that
-Horrible 24 hour pop timer mobs that require people to sit around for 3 1/2 hours each day?? >>>> works for us, they won't get any merits or levels so they'll have to do that the next day, or the day after, or the week after that, and that keeps them paying their monthly subscription

I could go on, there's tons of things that this game could stand to have fixed, but unless it's going to pay for itself, and at this point in FFXI's life, i don't think anything they do will, then it's not going to happen.

See as it turns out, our Final fantasy was someone elses money maker, and unfortunatley when you create something like that, and you require the backing of a company who's sole purpose is to make money, then your "game" is no longer that. It becomes someones hi-tech hotdog stand, or a local pub, or a website that sells t-shirts. And as much as you'd like your hotdogs to have whole wheat buns, your pub to stock bodingtons on tap, and your t-shirt company to have pockets on the sleaves, that shit costs money and it's not gonna happen unless they can make money by addopting these changes.

If 75% of FFXI's community voiced their opinion and said instance Dynamis, Ground kings, and BCNM's, so everyone could do them at any time, and then STOPED PAYING SQUARE ENIX, you'd see some changes. But do you think something like that would ever happen?

[Zoltar]

Re: Does SE enforce policy against HNM linkshells that bot?

I appreciate some of the responses. I got put in jail recently for flagging their 'Software Cheat Detector' or something like that. Needless to say, I wasn't running any third-party software and the GM said it was most likely my wi-fi that tripped it (somehow, but I'll never know lol) It makes me think SE is making improvements in the way they catch ppl.

[ShepardG]

Re: Does SE enforce policy against HNM linkshells that bot?

Lol, you were mistakenly jailed because you use wireless internet, and you think their "making improvements"???

You probably sent out your position, your wifi glitched missed you moving 100 yalms or something, and then sent out updated info that actually reached SE's servers, and there was not a consistent point A>point B>Point C>Point D>Point E

Whereas you sent out something (or some data was lost somewhere : point A>corrupt>corrupt or missing>Point C>Point D>corrupt>corrupt>Point G etc.

And they have a piece of software taht does a check of player positions and flags content ID's when there's missing data like in the above scenarios.

Or it's nothing like that at all. I don't know only surmise, but yeah.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Does SE enforce policy against HNM linkshells that bot?

Yes, they do enforce it. I've been at camps/claims were GMs have appeared and I've seen them make an ls give up their claim on a mob because of issues. With that said, those instances are rare. Usually they have to check, double check, check yet again, and then maybe....MAYBE...they'll do something about it.

I've been in endgame shells, who didn't bot, that were lucky and got an occasional claim, but it was so infrequent that it didn't pay to gather for weeks on end to have a 5% chance at a drop. I've never botted but I know that some of the shells I've been in did. Was I proud of it? No, absolutely not. Was it necessary in order to compete? Yes, it was unless you have a ls full of Buddhist monks that have infinite patience.

[Feba]

Re: Does SE enforce policy against HNM linkshells that bot?

HNM linkshells that bot

This thread brought to you by the department of redundancy department.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Does SE enforce policy against HNM linkshells that bot?

Like TGM said, they will sometimes do something about botting, but so rarely. Even if it's plainly obvious to you and everyone else in the Aery that Level 5 Galka character "Vokebot" is a vokebot and that he voked, claimed, died, and immediately d/c'ed was most certainly botting that claim ... even if you have 25 people in your ls call a GM and say the exact same thing ... they rarely do shit. They give you the canned "We will look into that, White Mage Aksannyi, is there anything else I can help you with today?"

And the funniest (most ironic) part is that botters call GMs on botters ... but most bots are undetectable by SE. Just as they can't tell you're using Windower, they can't tell that you're botting without haXing your computer and finding your bot program, which they can't do. So I (who botted) could call a GM on a botter and basically be calling the kettle black, and the GMs wouldn't even realize the irony of me tattling on someone.

So short answer, no, not really. If they could prove it - some functions of bots like pos-hacking were easy for them to detect - they would do something, but most bots were undetectable and therefore continue to run rampant on every server.