Waxman wants your vitamins.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Health freedom alert: Congressman Waxman sneaks anti-vitamin amendment into Wall Street reform bill

Waxman is the twit that wanted to string up Caterpillar, Verizon, AT&T in front of all of Washington, DC for these companies doing an accounting of what the HCR bill would cost these businesses. The thing is, businesses are supposed to do such assessments at the start of each fiscal year.

When he realized that, he called the senate hearings to save face. What's sad is that he had to realize it.

Now this boob wants to sneak in an amendment to the Wall Street Reform Bill that lets the FTC (not the FDA, the FTC) make laws without congressional approval (Constitution? Whats that?) that regulate dietary supplements.

First off, I'd think they'd put this through the FDA, but even so, it doesn't really belong in a bill about Wall Street Reform. These are the same people in bed with Big Pharmaceutical companies, letting them get away with murder, but vitamin supplement companies that tell you the direct truth about their products? Lock those guys up, they're out of control!

I don't really think the people out there making fish oils and multi-vitamins are evil..

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Waxman wants your vitamins.

I don't really think the people out there making fish oils and multi-vitamins are evil..

True . . . misguided at best, but certainly not evil.

. . . I should go to sleep so I can wake up at a time where not everything is funny to me any more . . .

[Pwnagraphic]

Re: Waxman wants your vitamins.

I don't really think the people out there making fish oils and multi-vitamins are evil..

Wow.. What are people thinking sometimes? How did these people make it as far in life as they did, and all the people with sense play videogames and post on this forum???

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Waxman wants your vitamins.

Wow.. What are people thinking sometimes? How did these people make it as far in life as they did, and all the people with sense play videogames and post on this forum???

Waxman is from California.

It really bears no further explanation.

[Feba]

Re: Waxman wants your vitamins.

BBQ, does that source look anything close to reasonable or neutral to you?

EDIT: I mean seriously, holy crap, they have an ad for "Anti-virals" to help defeat Swine Flu, etc., right under a bottle of shampoo branded "Valley of Longetivity".


Longetivity Shampoo.

Methinks there's some misrepresentation involved here.




Maybe I just don't see the similarity between chemotherapy and gassing millions of jews.

[Malacite]

Re: Waxman wants your vitamins.

See, this is exactly why I say the fault lies with the congress for the vast majority of your country's problems.

Sure there are a handful of good ones out there, but the majority of them are stupid, self-serving tools who haven't a clue what the hell they're doing and this is a perfect example of this. I'm actually rather stunned as Waxman was one of the few I was (formerly) impressed with.

I mean come on, vitamins? Really? The worst that happens with most of them is you piss it out without much benefit. A few can hurt you, but so can any over the counter medicine. If someone is really too stupid to either read the label or consult a physician, fuck 'em.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Waxman wants your vitamins.

BBQ, does that source look anything close to reasonable or neutral to you?

Well, Feba, they don't strike me as Limbaugh and Hannity listeners.

I heard about this on Coast To Coast AM's news portion last night. They start off with current events and then go talk about tinfoil hat stuff, though last night they talked about diet as it relates to stress. Sometimes it is a variety show.

You're not attacking the important point here - what is this amendment doing in the House version Wall Street Reform bill. Why does it give LAW-MAKING power to people in the FTC, you know, people we don't elect? Why didn't this come up when the house version was passed?

Its kinda unconstitutional, too. Laws are supposed to be made by which branch of the government, kids?

[Feba]

Re: Waxman wants your vitamins.

Well, Feba, they don't strike me as Limbaugh and Hannity listeners.

Who gives a damn where they get their news? You don't judge the quality of a position by where it falls in the political spectrum. They're a site which exists solely to drum up homeopathic products to the point where they don't just question Western, scientific medicine, but are actively opposed to it.

That means you cannot trust them to provide an unbalanced (or frankly, intelligent) viewpoint. This is like getting your information on an agricultural bill from The Nebraska Corn Grower's Union. I mean for fucks sake, the cartoon comparing Chemotherapy to the Holocaust wasn't even the best example of this. They proudly have one of a doctor drawn with a Joker grin, shooting children with an AK-47 full of vaccines. And this isn't separate from their "articles" like any remotely reputable news agency, they have articles which explain exactly what the comic represents.

I'm guessing what it is isn't giving the FTC power to "create laws", but simply to enforce regulations against false advertising-- as many homeopathic 'cures' are. But we can't know that without a credible source. At worst, I'm guessing it gives the FTC more power to redefine legislation, or handle things on a more case-by-case basis, which is perfectly within Congress' power to grant, and the only way this even approaches a constitutional problem is if it's used as a way of avoiding bills of attainder.

Again, find some place that talks about the facts of this, and I'm guessing you'll get a lot of your answers. A big part of financial reform is stopping false advertising and forcing companies to be more open with people buying their products. It would make perfect sense to tie this in.

[Malacite]

Re: Waxman wants your vitamins.

Who gives a damn where they get their news? You don't judge the quality of a position by where it falls in the political spectrum.

Um, Fox News is little more than a propaganda station for the Republican Party. MSNBC is almost as bad for the Dems, with a few good exceptions. CNN tries to be unbiased but also comes off as a fear-mongering tabloid far too often.


So yeah, the source matters a lot especially when it's a political issue. This is why I like the BBC, CBC, TVO & PBS best - unbiased news.

[Feba]

Re: Waxman wants your vitamins.

So yeah, the source matters a lot especially when it's a political issue.

Which has what to do with what I said? I didn't say that some sources aren't biased by their politics. I said that it doesn't matter whether a source is on the left or the right-- truth isn't solely confined to one side or the other.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Waxman wants your vitamins.

"The FTC routinely targets nutritional supplement companies that are merely telling the truth about their products."

Ya riiiiight...merely telling the truth with no independent studies to back up their claims.

"Some companies are threatened by merely linking to published scientific studies about their products."

And many of these studies are not independent, controlled, or comprehensive but yet they keep labeling them as scientific studies. Studies that are biased in their favor yet there has been no proof of the claims they make except for the information from their own "studies".

Currently one of the biggest producers of supplements is China. Has anyone read about some of the manufacturing issues they've had there? Do you really want to be popping pills into your body from a non-regulated producer?

And as Feba stated, this website is extremely biased in their outlook.

[Malacite]

Re: Waxman wants your vitamins.

Which has what to do with what I said? I didn't say that some sources aren't biased by their politics. I said that it doesn't matter whether a source is on the left or the right-- truth isn't solely confined to one side or the other.

Ah, my bad. I agree with you then :3

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Waxman wants your vitamins.

"The FTC routinely targets nutritional supplement companies that are merely telling the truth about their products."

Ya riiiiight...merely telling the truth with no independent studies to back up their claims.

Yeah, but what about the ones that are tested? Stuff like fish oils and mutli-vitamin put out there have been tested. What's the purpose of targeting companies that post factual information about that stuff?

Companies that put out shit like 5 Hour Energy Drinks (or any energy drink, for that matter) DO put untested supplements and such in their products and the FDA and FTC do jack squat to stop them.

And as Feba stated, this website is extremely biased in their outlook.

And Feba always plays the Devil's Advocate.

The site's bias is beside the point, though, they got this news of the AP wire originally.

Thy is this stuff in the bill to start with? Its extremely fucking annoying that you guys want to kill the messenger and not look at the real issue here.

What does this part of the legislation have to do with Wall Street betting against investors?
What does it have to do with banks?
What does it have to do with loans and mortgages?
How does giving the FTC lawmaking power over the supplement industry even relate to those issues?

Those are the real questions here and not surprisingly, Feba has no answers to them, just diversions.

The FTC is not filled with people we elect, thus, they should not have power to make laws. Their role is to make regulations based on laws made in the legislative branch, not to make laws themselves.

And let me tell you, you will not like what the FTC has say when they side with other certain companies. You know, like Comcast or Time Warner - the guys that want to pretend there's some bandwidth shortage because of BitTorrent.

Will that be the breaking point for you? I assure you, that issue is coming. And if the FTC can get lawmaking power over one kind of industry, what's to say the law won't be amended to regulate others?

Being angry at companies is playing into the hands of people like Waxman. They want you to get stuck on these little foibles the industries have. No one makes you take supplements, really. I gave up energy drinks once I learned they messed with my treatment plans. Of course, the guise will be "consumer protection" but I've managed just fine on my own.

The EPA is supposed to protect the environment, they're another body we didn't elect and where were they during the first ten days of the Gulf of Mexico's oils spill. Nothing, but if they did something, they only got in the way.

Actually, we had a plan for oil spills put into place after the Exxon-Valdez incident, there was a law drafted in 1990 under Bush Sr and updated in 1994 under Clinton. The plan was to construct oil booms near rigs so if an incident such as the Exxon-Valdez or oil rig explosions occurred they could be sectioned off and burned out as the came up.

We heard about burning them off in the first few days, but as it turns out, only one ever got constructed. And we're not allowed to burn the stuff thanks to the EPA, oh no, that would create carbon emissions. We can't use dispersants because they're "just as toxic" as the oil according to the EPA.

BP has some big responsibilities to shoulder here, yes, but the EPA and these programs tax money paid for have failed to do their jobs. The big solution right now seems to be just blame BP and watch it happen. That and never open new off-shore drilling, which is really going to help our energy independence while we look for alternatives.

Pardon me if I think the atmosphere can take a little hit from this, you know, rather than the wildlife and aquatic life of the southeastern coast, not to mention the economic impacts and lost job that will come of this.

Ten days and the best our government can say is that the Coast Guard was there - they just kept them from doing anything.

So pardon me if I think the EPA, which is supposed to help us protect our environment, is a fucking failure. They do more to exacerbate environmental problems than solve them.

I don't want to see any non-elects getting more power, thanks, I don't care what the reasons are or what the problems are. They cannot accomplish anything but diminishing the power of citizens and industry, all while accomplishing fuck nothing in the process.

[Feba]

Re: Waxman wants your vitamins.

The site's bias is beside the point, though, they got this news of the AP wire originally.

Then show us the wire story. You know, the one based in facts and journalism, not ideology and product protection.

And Feba always plays the Devil's Advocate.

I frequently do, but that has absolutely nothing to do with pointing out how just plain wrong this organization-- and thus your claims-- are.

What does this part of the legislation have to do with Wall Street betting against investors?
What does it have to do with banks?
What does it have to do with loans and mortgages?
How does giving the FTC lawmaking power over the supplement industry even relate to those issues?


Those are the real questions here and not surprisingly, Feba has no answers to them, just diversions.

Except I did answer them in a post above. It's probably part of larger provisions against false advertisements, it's probably got nothing to do with law-making (another possibility: allowing the FTC to recommend legislation to congress on issues), and it would probably make a helluva lot more sense if you got your story from a source which can be trusted. Even FOX is better than these guys.

The FTC is not filled with people we elect, thus, they should not have power to make laws. Their role is to make regulations based on laws made in the legislative branch, not to make laws themselves.

The only evidence you've presented so far of the FTC having any legislative powers is based on an incredibly poorly written article on a site dedicated to shilling an industry which this would impose regulation against. You might as well quote Goldman Sachs on how Wall Street regulation means arming the SEC-- hell, at least Goldman would have a harder time getting away with lies. It's meaningless. If I write up a sufficiently long article, that does not make whatever I say true.

And let me tell you, you will not like what the FTC has say when they side with other certain companies.

Siding... with companies? BBQ, did you even read the hilariously wrong article that you posted?

No one makes you take supplements, really.

And nobody makes you put in asbestoes installation and use lead paint; doesn't mean we shouldn't have some protections against them.

The EPA is supposed to protect the environment, they're another body we didn't elect and where were they during the first ten days of the Gulf of Mexico's oils spill. Nothing, but if they did something, they only got in the way.

Ok, so let me get this straight:
1- Any federal organization which is not elected by the people is automatically bad.
1b- Regardless of the fact that these organizations are run with the legal approval of the legislature.
2- You don't know what the EPA did about the oil spill
2a- Because BBQ doesn't know what the EPA did (or whether they had any responsibility to do anything), they did nothing
2b- If they did do something, they did something bad.

Do you realize how many logical flaws you manage to condense into one short paragraph?

We heard about burning them off in the first few days, but as it turns out, only one ever got constructed

That would the coast guard. You know, the entity with the boats and the duty to protect our shores.

BP has some big responsibilities to shoulder here, yes, but the EPA and these programs tax money paid for have failed to do their jobs.

What programs? If they're correct about burning off oil or dumping chemicals into the ocean causing more harm, why on earth would you want to do those things?

Pardon me if I think the atmosphere can take a little hit from this, you know, rather than the wildlife and aquatic life of the southeastern coast, not to mention the economic impacts and lost job that will come of this.

So wildlife and the economy are only hurt by carbon in water, not in the air? I think Europe would be very interested in what you're talking about right now. And anyway, do you have any idea how large this spill is? It's not something you can just look at and say "burn it all". It's much harder to deal with than that.

Quick summary:
1- You're taking an article from an incredibly, obviously, and unashamedly biased website literally in the statement that the FTC will have the power to create laws.
2- ANY Government agency's actions are automatically wrong until and only if you approve of them.
3- The Congress has to handle every matter itself-- creating agencies to deal with problems without running to the legislature for every new shipment of ink ribbons is a violation of the constitution.
4- The EPA's handling of the oil spill in the Gulf is directly related to a proposed amendment in the Congress about dealing with False Advertisements.
5- ANY Consumer Protection is worthless because BBQ has made it through everything just fine. Therefore, companies shouldn't have to have honesty in advertising to prevent people from ordering products which wrongly claim to cure ailments, which misrepresent their curative properties, and so on-- from the same sorts of people who don't just scam people out of thousands of dollars in homeopathic 'remedies', but actively discourage them from seeking real medicine which can save their lives, up to the point where they caricature Doctors as Terrorists killing children.

BBQ, which do you need more badly: a lecture on how the Constitution works, a lecture on common sense, or your medication?

[Malacite]

Re: Waxman wants your vitamins.

Thy is this stuff in the bill to start with? Its extremely fucking annoying that you guys want to kill the messenger and not look at the real issue here.

Do you not follow politics close enough? This is (sadly) extremely commonplace because it's a lot easier to attach small projects/amendments to larger bills rather than take the time to propose these things on their own. It also often gives them a much greater chance of passing.

I agree that it's a dirty, underhanded process even if it results in something good. I've said it before and I'll say it again - Throw the bums out on their asses. The U.S. Congress is a complete joke. They're not all bad, but far, far too many of them are and they're just taking the country for their own personal joy rides.

2 things that would fix this but sadly would likely never happen;

1) Strict term limits. Should be limited to 2 terms, same as any other major seat of power.

2) Campaign finance reform. Dear GOD if this would only pass, and this actually should be applied across the board. Jon Stewart had a comparison on his show the other night;

In Britain, the Liberals have a maximum of $50,000 to spend and their federal elections last a mere 3 months. Between Obama and Mc Cain, over $1.6 Billion was spent and it was a 2-year campaign altogether. How is this even remotely acceptable?! What a colossal waste of time and money.

And with regards to the Congress, if their funds were all limited and funded by tax payer money, they wouldn't have to waste so many hours a day calling people asking for money, and the general tone of the adds would likely be more civil and informative (or at least I would hope so given how expensive air time is)


And on that last point, let me just give a final shout out to the U.S. Supreme court with regards to this matter - **** YOU