Cool shit: Be your own grandfather! Not cool: Your kid is your kid, grand-kid &uncle!

[Empedocles]

Re: Cool shit: Be your own grandfather! Not cool: Your kid is your kid, grand-kid &un

It's a NZ magazine ... but that sh!t is happening in America:

"She was living with her Catholic parents in Indiana....."

Guess I missed that.... doesn't invalidate my comment though

I'm suprised there's been no legal intervention before things have got so far.

While it may be immoral to many, that doesn't make it illegal (I hope) so any attempt at legal intervention would be crushed hard and fast.

[Mhurron]

Re: Cool shit: Be your own grandfather! Not cool: Your kid is your kid, grand-kid &un

While it may be immoral to many, that doesn't make it illegal (I hope) so any attempt at legal intervention would be crushed hard and fast.

Incest is illegal in civilized areas of the world. And in the American South.

[Empedocles]

Re: Cool shit: Be your own grandfather! Not cool: Your kid is your kid, grand-kid &un

Hot damn. I knew beastiality was illegal but I didn't know sex between consenting adults was. Well the things you learn, eh...

[Balfree]

Re: Cool shit: Be your own grandfather! Not cool: Your kid is your kid, grand-kid &un

in my honest opinion... man made all these rules and people who disagree with them are immediately judged as immoral or inhumane.

if its consensual, it shouldn't be illegal, in these cases morality is relative and shouldn't be compared.

having kids together (biologically) is the only thing i really frown upon, and that is solely because of genetic implications which consequences i'm still unaware of but yeah, doesn't sound good.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Cool shit: Be your own grandfather! Not cool: Your kid is your kid, grand-kid &un

Hot damn. I knew beastiality was illegal but I didn't know sex between consenting adults was. Well the things you learn, eh...

Sex between consenting adults who aren't closely related isn't illegal. I believe 3rd cousins and onward is legal but anything closer is. Of course, this could vary from state to state.

[Neverslip]

Re: Cool shit: Be your own grandfather! Not cool: Your kid is your kid, grand-kid &un

I knew beastiality was illegal

And some states still have that as legal. WA only recently put laws into effect to punish such sikkos.

Genetic sexual attraction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Imprinting (psychology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

... um... very interesting reads. That Westermarck stuff makes ya ponder a bit about innate facial-structure recognition and familial pheromone recognition mysteries. Clearly we are not intended to find those we we grow up with as sexually attractive.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Cool shit: Be your own grandfather! Not cool: Your kid is your kid, grand-kid &un

if its consensual, it shouldn't be illegal, in these cases morality is relative and shouldn't be compared.

So it doesn't bother you if a father and his adult daughter would have sex? A son and mother? You don't think that the feelings in the father/daughter-mother/son relationship could be exploited by one side in order to gain the objective of sex?

[Feba]

Re: Cool shit: Be your own grandfather! Not cool: Your kid is your kid, grand-kid &un

TGM, I think most incest laws in the states only bar marriage between closely related persons. And I think they generally start at second cousins, although there are more than a handful of states that allow marriage between first cousins. See File:Cousin marriage map1.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I'd be surprised if it were legal to ban sex between two people based on blood relation-- you'd think that would fall under the same right-to-privacy protections that make homosexuality and things like BDSM legal.

And would it bother me? Probably, sure. But things bothering me isn't a good basis for what shouldn't be allowed. And while people could manipulate family in different ways, I think it's absolutely absurd to think that relationships aren't exploited and manipulated regardless of who is in them-- perhaps more often than not. As long as sex isn't used as blackmail or bribery (as may be the case with, say, teachers), and it's consensual, it's not really any of my business.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Cool shit: Be your own grandfather! Not cool: Your kid is your kid, grand-kid &un

So it doesn't bother you if a father and his adult daughter would have sex? A son and mother? You don't think that the feelings in the father/daughter-mother/son relationship could be exploited by one side in order to gain the objective of sex?

Sure it's possible. Likely even. But supposing there was no emotional or parental/child role exploitation going on, would it still bother you?

It bothers me, but that's because I don't understand it. In my little world, such a pairing doesn't make sense and I don't see how others could arrive at that situation. That doesn't inherently make it wrong, but it does make me feel midly uncomfortable.

[Mhurron]

Re: Cool shit: Be your own grandfather! Not cool: Your kid is your kid, grand-kid &un

I'd be surprised if it were legal to ban sex between two people based on blood relation-- you'd think that would fall under the same right-to-privacy protections that make homosexuality and things like BDSM legal.

It is illegal. I had to sign a document when I got married swearing that the wife and I are not related by blood any closer then second cousins. (I also had to sign documents when I entered the country that I wasn't a Nazi, Communist or had ever participated in genocidal actions. I had a good chuckle over all that but that's neither here nor there).

Your rights end where then infringe on those of another. Incest laws grew out of the need to protect unborn from a life that can be a living hell because of the shortsightedness of others they have not control over. Well, that and to ensure the human race didn't die out. Most of the pregnancies in the US, and most likely the world, are accidental. The pinky promise not to have children doesn't mean much and you can't mandate that children conceived in incestual unions be aborted. The state can however refuse to issue a marriage license to those making the marriage illegal in the eyes of the state and null and void.

Society does sometimes mean that the phrase 'consenting adults' no longer is the be all and end all.

[Feba]

Re: Cool shit: Be your own grandfather! Not cool: Your kid is your kid, grand-kid &un

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7x1ETPkZsk"]YouTube- "I'm My Own Grandpa" Performed by Dennis Warner[/nomedia]

In related news.

---------- Post added at 12:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:08 PM ----------

Society does sometimes mean that the phrase 'consenting adults' no longer is the be all and end all.

Except that all children are at risk of genetic issues, and barring who can have sex with who is even more restrictive than eugenics. Even if you ignore that, what would you do about an infertile pair of first cousins?

I had to sign a document when I got married

Yeah, I kinda mentioned that. You do realize that here in America, sex outside of marriage is perfectly normal, right?

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Cool shit: Be your own grandfather! Not cool: Your kid is your kid, grand-kid &un

I'm sorry but I won't be joining in this discussion anymore. It's morally wrong, it's illegal, and it's exploitive.

I am usually very open about my life experiences online. I feel that sharing my mistakes and experiences might help someone, and to me that makes any embarrassment worth it. But there are some things that I am still reserved about. One of those things is incest, I am an incest survivor. My biological father and grandfather took advantage of me until the age of 15 and he let his buddies have at me too. Incest is wrong. It scars you for life no matter what age.

[Feba]

Re: Cool shit: Be your own grandfather! Not cool: Your kid is your kid, grand-kid &un

I'm sorry that happened to you, but there's as big a difference between that and what we're talking about and two kids fooling around and pedophilia. One of them is clearly rape, the other one is the much murkier subject of consent.

[Balfree]

Re: Cool shit: Be your own grandfather! Not cool: Your kid is your kid, grand-kid &un

So it doesn't bother you if a father and his adult daughter would have sex? A son and mother? You don't think that the feelings in the father/daughter-mother/son relationship could be exploited by one side in order to gain the objective of sex?

if it bothers me? kinda. but it doesn't shock me one bit, i guess current society has desensitized (sp) me?

should it be legal if 2 consensual grown ups decide to have sex with each other? that is something else.

they will forever be shunned in society and that is their own problem, but law and morality only seldom go hand in hand.

[Mhurron]

Re: Cool shit: Be your own grandfather! Not cool: Your kid is your kid, grand-kid &un

Except that all children are at risk of genetic issues, and barring who can have sex with who is even more restrictive than eugenics.

Your attempt to create a slippery slope argument here is not going to work. Eugenics is directed breeding, incest and the illegality of it is not directed breeding. Genetic issues can happen in a non-incestual union, but they are almost guaranteed in an blood related incestual one. In non-related parents, it is unfortunately always a question of if, in blood related parents it is a question of when.

Even if you ignore that, what would you do about an infertile pair of first cousins?

You ban it outright so the what if never has to be evaluated. This prevents the state deciding who can do whom outside of protecting those who can not protect themselves. Infertility has proven to be a minor issue, not the absolute inability to conceive. The promise not to undergo fertility treatments is still the pinky promise not to have children.

Yeah, I kinda mentioned that. You do realize that here in America, sex outside of marriage is perfectly normal, right?

Yes, but the question on the request for the marriage license is the state making you swear that your not currently breaking the law, not swearing that you don't intend to. Also, in common law states you do not need a marriage license or formal to be married (the act of living together is enough), yet incestual relationships are illegal there as well. The incestual relationship is what is illegal, not the marriage. The marriage is because the basis of it is illegal.