Contacting a congressman is like pulling teeth

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

So we got this health care thing going on this weeked. This isn't really so much about the matter as it is our wonderful process of senators and congressman finding ways not to hear you. Because not listening is clearly why we elect these people.

OK, so I would say Health Care Reform - being something that affects everyone - that pulling the "I only listen to people from my district card" is about as bullshit as it gets. I don't care if you're a congressman from Florida or Alazka, what you're voting about affects me, so fuck it if I'm couple zip codes away, you should listen. That's what "representatives" do.

Shit, I wanted to send some of them a thank you notes and get cockblocked by this zipcode nonsense.

Oh, and calling them? Good luck with that. Busy signal, voicemail box is full, etc.

I think I got an email out to three people, expressing my view or thank-yous.

Driving to Washington D.C. and waving a piece of cardboard might have been a better way to get my voice heard, I swear.

Thankfully, there's still November. They can't ignore me then.

[Feba]

Re: Contacting a congressman is like pulling teeth

Thankfully, there's still November. They can't ignore me then.

Actually they can, if you're not in their district. Constitutionally speaking, they're elected to represent their constituents, the voting system reflects that pretty totally, apart from influence from outside their district (mainly in campaigning against the person).

You can disagree with the idea of geographic representation, it has plenty of problems; gerrymandering; giving greater influence to smaller states than their populations reflect, encouraging representatives to fuck the greater good to protect their position in especially extreme portions of the country. But this is actually an example of congress doing it's fucking job-- if you're the Senator from Wyoming, why should you care what a bunch of people in New York or California think of your voting? It would be a waste of resources to hear from people you aren't representing.

You want to complain about contacting congressmen, try contacting yours, and then having him reply with a form letter saying "Thanks for your support!", when your letter was clearly opposed. And very little chance of him being voted out because your state is red as blood.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Contacting a congressman is like pulling teeth

Actually they can, if you're not in their district. Constitutionally speaking, they're elected to represent their constituents, the voting system reflects that pretty totally, apart from influence from outside their district (mainly in campaigning against the person).

Hard not to notice how Scott Brown's election was kind of everyone's business, you can still support someone not in your state or district without voting for them. You can still get facts out about them.

But this is actually an example of congress doing it's fucking job-- if you're the Senator from Wyoming, why should you care what a bunch of people in New York or California think of your voting?

Well, you see Feba, in this case this bill affects all Americans, 1/6th of our economy, every large and small business and they jobs they may create or cut in light of all the taxes coming from this.

Seeing how these things affect both you and me, what district we're in doesn't and shouldn't matter.

If they don't listen and things don't go the way the majority of Americans want it to, there's going to be repercussions. This isn't like the other bills or the little stuff we might forget by November, this is kind of a big deal.

You want to complain about contacting congressmen, try contacting yours, and then having him reply with a form letter saying "Thanks for your support!", when your letter was clearly opposed. And very little chance of him being voted out because your state is red as blood.

I have and I have before this, getting to your guys is not a problem. How he responds does influence my opinion the next time voting comes around. I know my canned replys when I see them, a canned reply will tell me how I rate.

Sometimes it happens, sometimes it does not. I keep a note of what happens.

[EternalMalachi]

Re: Contacting a congressman is like pulling teeth

I keep a note of what happens.

As will many more. Support for the government in general is at an all time low at 17%, I think. They think they'll take a minor hit in November for this naked power grab, but that once the system is in place it'll be much easier for them to stay in power indefinately. I love how they exempt themselves from the garbage they'll be forcing on everyone else. >.> The key to this is staying active.

[Possum]

Re: Contacting a congressman is like pulling teeth

If they don't listen and things don't go the way the majority of Americans want it to, there's going to be repercussions.

Unfortunately, the only thing we can do is replace one greedy moron with another. This is not likely to change as the amount of pain, suffering, and brown-nosing required to get elected is more than the average citizen is able to withstand, thus you will not see average citizens (people with character and values) obtaining a seat.

If I were to change anything, I would make these "public servants" income whatever the national average is. Going off of random bing.com reference material, the average income for an American male in 2007 was $45,000. These politicians should represent their citizens, yet a US Senator makes $174,000 (not considering the benefits on top of that).

Of course, a defeatist attitude like mine won't solve anything either. Your approach is more in the right direction.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Contacting a congressman is like pulling teeth

As will many more. Support for the government in general is at an all time low at 17%, I think. They think they'll take a minor hit in November for this naked power grab, but that once the system is in place it'll be much easier for them to stay in power indefinately. I love how they exempt themselves from the garbage they'll be forcing on everyone else. >.> The key to this is staying active.

Yeah, congress and senate approval ratings are vastly lower than the president's, Obama sits just around a 47^ approval rating which is really just about as bad as when Bush left office, if not worse.

This system is his legacy, though, parts of this won't be enacted by 2013 because he want this to buy him a second term. If it passes today, the Democratic majority has lost Congress and the Senate in November. It will take time to repeal a lot of the garbage in this bill, but you can bet things will be repealed and some things flat-out removed.

The fact that Pelosi considered the Slaughter Rule - even though they decided against using it - the fact that it was considered damns the democratic majority. Pelosi is actually worse than Obama, though, he's just a spineless twit that hides behind her skirt. Once she and Reid are gone, Obama is done.

He made it pretty clear that, unlike Clinton, he's not going to follow Clinton's wisdom and govern from the center. Of course, Clinton tried what Obama has and losing the Democratic majority because of it back then was what straightened him the fuck out.

I wonder what his face will look like, though, after all the doctors and psychiatrists that have threatened to quit do if this passes. 33% of psychiatrists, 25% of doctors is the current estimate. That's going to be a big blow to Americans and who are they going to blame for that, I wonder?

Are they going to blame doctors because they were "greedy, bad doctors" as Obama would probably have us believe or was it because they don't like decisions that affect their personal lives and profession of choice? And I also wonder how many people starting med school or aspiring to become a doctor will reconsider now. Will they be evil, too?

If I were to change anything, I would make these "public servants" income whatever the national average is. Going off of random bing.com reference material, the average income for an American male in 2007 was $45,000. These politicians should represent their citizens, yet a US Senator makes $174,000 (not considering the benefits on top of that).

Well the thing about that is is that a lot of these people need to keep two homes and two offices. Second office is taken care of, so I say build them all a little apartment complex elected officials can live in together when they're not in their states. That and they have to potentially share a bunk bed with a guy from another party.

And once these guys have to live together, we can cut their pay by 1/3 at least. People who live together have to learn to share. Hell, maybe they'll learn to get along.

[Malacite]

Re: Contacting a congressman is like pulling teeth

This system is his legacy, though, parts of this won't be enacted by 2013 because he want this to buy him a second term. If it passes today, the Democratic majority has lost Congress and the Senate in November. It will take time to repeal a lot of the garbage in this bill, but you can bet things will be repealed and some things flat-out removed.

They're going to lose a lot of seats either way. I'm with Michael Moore on this one, what he said to Wolf Blitzer on Friday I believe really hit the nail on the head. In a nutshell, the Dems are screwed either way because instead of doing what they were sent to do, "they got out the guitars and sang kumbaya". The current bill is a complete disaster but it's still better than nothing and the Right has been doing nothing but cock block Obama at every turn for the sake of regaining power and if anyone thinks different they're seriously deluding themselves.

As for the dems? They're not any better, most of them. A few of them have a conscience but the vast majority don't give a shit about people anymore than the right does. It's always been and always will be about the money and protecting their phony baloney jobs. I DIDN'T GET A HARUMPH OUT OF THAT GUY!!! (Cookie if you get the reference)

I will say though, Good on you BBQ for trying to make a difference regardless of which side you're on. A big reason a lot of the shit that goes down in the U.S. does is because too many people just do not care, or only care about the federal stuff. They don't pay attention to local or state elections/matters, just the Federal.

I personally think Bill Maher was absolutely right in saying Obama needs a little more "Bush in him" with regards to getting shit done. Letting Palocey (sp?) and Reid take the reigns on health care was a biiiiiiiig mistake. They allowed the right to spin it to death and then all the backdoor deals and other awful shenanigans. A lot of people I talk to mistakenly take me for some hardcore liberal >.< couldn't be more wrong lol. I'm more in the middle, and I deeply support Obama because I took the time to read his books and his platform and haven't been impressed by a politician like him ever. I've got no love of the Republicans or the Democrats quite frankly, as both of them are screwing everything up just to line their greedy ass pockets while feigning public interest or moral outrage.

I'm just glad there are guys like Michael Moore, Bill Maher and John Stewart out there both to make light of all this (because it's enough to drive any sane, educated person insane) and explain it to the ignorant masses. Thursday's 15-minute Glen Beck parody, IMO, was John Stewart's shining moment. It was at times scary, but amazing.


Got other stuff to do, done ranting for now. Good luck contacting your congressman BBQ. I myself, can not wait for the fall so we can finally give that asswipe Harper the boot out the door. Even my hardcore conservative friends have had it up to here with the idiot and are tempted to vote Liberal XD (as long as the NDP doesn't win it's all good, like that'll ever happen though.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Contacting a congressman is like pulling teeth

They're going to lose a lot of seats either way. I'm with Michael Moore on this one, what he said to Wolf Blitzer on Friday I believe really hit the nail on the head. In a nutshell, the Dems are screwed either way because instead of doing what they were sent to do, "they got out the guitars and sang kumbaya". The current bill is a complete disaster but it's still better than nothing and the Right has been doing nothing but cock block Obama at every turn for the sake of regaining power and if anyone thinks different they're seriously deluding themselves.

Republicans have submitted several ideas - including a rather important one a former lawyer who happens to be president doesn't like - torque reform being one of them. Tax credits being amoung others as well. There are ways to give people options without destroying the system we have now.

Butt is not "better than nothing" when it fundamentally changes everything for the worse, thankfully - if passed - we have time to undo some of the damage before it spreads too far but it will still bear consequences.

When the taxes go into effect employers will drop insurance for their employees and when you work temp jobs like I have to right now, that means you're going from subpar but still affordable, to nothing or gross expense. 1/4th of doctors are threatening to quit. This bill is ugly shit.

I will say though, Good on you BBQ for trying to make a difference regardless of which side you're on. A big reason a lot of the shit that goes down in the U.S. does is because too many people just do not care, or only care about the federal stuff. They don't pay attention to local or state elections/matters, just the Federal.

I tried to stay in good humor with my message. What really ruffled my feathers was Polosi saying the other week "We have to pass the bill so you can find out what's in it."

Her words. Not much to take out of context here.

So basically, Health Care reform a box of Cocoa Puffs to her. A bunch of sugary words with a suprise inside. Sorry, I've grown up, when I look at my cereal, I want to know what's in it, I want to know what's in the bill before it passes and no one is being terribly clear about the facts - especially those in support of it.

I've been hospitalized five times in my 32 years, twice as an adult. Three times for brain surgery, which for as much as we know, still has a lot of room to grow. I want the people that have to face what I have to have the solutions these doctors came to. I want to see these doctors build on the treatments

There has been so much progress in the field of Neurology, but there still needs to be more and real competition, its not going to work that way.

When I started to have my anxiety attacks (didn't know what they were a that time, mine weren't terribly conventional, either) my old neurologist couldn't help me. Its not that he was a bad doctor - he's the one who came up with the idea t put the shunt in on my third surgery, as a surgeon, he's gold - but its because he wasn't a psychiatrist.

The next neurologist I went to see had an idea of his own. We suspected seizure activity, so I was placed on an EKG for a full week. Not only that, but other observations were made and a psychologist came to talk me three times that week.

This gave them time to evaluate my problem on multiple fronts. It was concluded that my epileptic seizures had not returned (they were a symptom related to my old problems which the third surgery fixed) and that this was a psychological issue.

They prescribed paxil and I've not had the problems since.

That cost $15,000, but my company's insurance policy paid $12,000 of it. All things considered and all the shit I've been through, it was a price I had fine with paying. Damn those insurance companies are evil

I personally think Bill Maher was absolutely right in saying Obama needs a little more "Bush in him" with regards to getting shit done.

He could start by making foreign policy a bigger priority, but I'd rather have Hilary Clinton to it for him at this point, since all Obama does is kiss the asses of dictators and apologize for America. The rest of his time he wastes blaming Bush or whoever came before him.

I wish he had been a bit more like Clinton, he learned to govern from the center. I doubt Obama is going to take it as good as Clinton did when he's faced with Republican majority. He's already looking haggard, pointing a crooked finger and losing his composure. Aging faster than Bush or Clinton did, too.

[Feba]

Re: Contacting a congressman is like pulling teeth

Hard not to notice how Scott Brown's election was kind of everyone's business,

Do local elections matter on a national level? Sure. Does that mean that your vote matters to them? Not one bit.

Again, geographic representation may not be the best system. But that's how our constitution works. It's designed to keep the majority from having all of the power all of the time. That may very well be a terrible idea-- I personally would say it is-- but if you want to complain about people representing local interests, you're complaining about the system America has been using pretty much as long as we've been around. Hell, in the past we didn't even get to vote for Senators, those were elected by state legislatures until the 17th Amendment. Under the current system, they're doing exactly what they're supposed to do, bad as that may be.

[Possum]

Re: Contacting a congressman is like pulling teeth

I've been hospitalized five times in my 32 years, twice as an adult. Three times for brain surgery

That explains a lot (and I mean that in the most respectful way possible).

There are ways to give people options without destroying the system we have now.

I agree with this concept. It worries me that we have politicians re-writing healthcare, and it worries me even more that such a large percentage of our doctors and staff (minus the four whitecoat stand-ins behind Obama when he makes any announcements related to healthcare) do not support the previous versions of the bill.

One minor tidbit in the bill in the works is it would become illegal for insurers to drop coverage of someone who is sick. I'm surprised this is not already in place with the current system. The practice insurers use to flag sick patients for review (you know, one minor discrepancy on your application from 6 years ago and it's bye-bye insurance) is just pure evil. They're willing to take your money without much more than a "just sign here" but as soon as you need the coverage to kick in, they finally do due dilligence and look over your files. I'm impressed your insurance paid the $12k out of the $15k bill.

One excuse given by insurance company bigwigs is that this practice helps them provide affordable rates to the masses. Well I don't know about you, but it looks like I have two choices here: 1.) Affordable insurance that disappears when I need it, or 2.) More expensive insurance that actually covers me. Do we really need to compare the two?

To put it into just a slight bit of perspective, could you imagine getting into a car accident and then your car insurance company immediately deletes your policy, citing a spelling error on your application when you signed up a few years ago? Hey, at least you were covered at a low cost for a little while.

PS: Though this topic may seem out of place, I find this site to be the best place to discuss such a volatile issue. People tend to be so polarized about these issues that there is very little discussing and a whole lotta broadcasting (everyone talking and nobody listening).

[Malacite]

Re: Contacting a congressman is like pulling teeth

Hell, in the past we didn't even get to vote for Senators, those were elected by state legislatures until the 17th Amendment.

As per the wishes of the founding fathers, and IMO it should have been left that way. They feared the masses and for good reason. I don't recall the exact quote, but it was something along the lines of the Government is only as good as the education level of it's citizens.


There's a lot that's wrong in this bill make no mistake, but if they kill it now odds are good it will be a long fucking time before it comes up again. In the mean time thousands of Americans are dieing every year because they aren't covered. When Obama was out there saying "we're finally going to fix health care in America!" that was honestly the first time I've thought to myself "you're fucking lieing and you know it! This is a band-aid fix at best!"

It's a shame he backed down from his original push for Single Payer, but he did so because he knows damn well (unfortunately) that Americans will never support it. The Republicans will never let it happen and the media has done a bang up job demonizing and spreading misinformation about it. America is ranked 36th on Healthcare by the W.H.O., oh but hey, you guys have "The best healthcare in the world" .


orz

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Contacting a congressman is like pulling teeth

Do local elections matter on a national level? Sure. Does that mean that your vote matters to them? Not one bit.

Again, geographic representation may not be the best system. But that's how our constitution works. It's designed to keep the majority from having all of the power all of the time. That may very well be a terrible idea-- I personally would say it is-- but if you want to complain about people representing local interests, you're complaining about the system America has been using pretty much as long as we've been around. Hell, in the past we didn't even get to vote for Senators, those were elected by state legislatures until the 17th Amendment. Under the current system, they're doing exactly what they're supposed to do, bad as that may be.

Again, this affects everyone, this isn't a law for a town in a state you don't live in.

This is a bill that, regardless of who the congressman represents, affects you. I think we get a say on the matter. I think we should be able to speak with these people.

And there are quite a few of these congressmen that are ignoring the will of the people in their districts, too. They should be exposed, made known. They chose their career, a spot in history, promises of campaign help or backroom deals instead of the will of the people in their district. That is disgusting.

We don't elect these people to rule over us, we elect them to serve us. They've forgotten that.

[Possum]

Re: Contacting a congressman is like pulling teeth

America is ranked 36th on Healthcare by the W.H.O., oh but hey, you guys have "The best healthcare in the world" .

And we were doing so well with keeping the discussion mature.

To get a little perspective, I read up on how the WHO did their healthcare survey here: who.int/whr/2000/media_centre/press_release/en/index.html --I'm sure you did, too. I attempted to shrink that URL down into a "here" link, but the forums won't allow me to do that until I've had at least 10 posts. Back to the survey itself, it was last done in 2000 (from what I can tell), so I'd say it's relatively current since I know there haven't been many policy changes here in the US (hence the current health bill).

However, I'd caution against using that assessment as a source because some countries were downgraded based on what the surveyors believed the country should be doing vs what it has in place (meaning US would score lower than Columbia if we had identical systems because we're supposed to be better).

There were also some negative marks for the US because the health care costs the same to everyone, and isn't cheaper for people with less money (which causes it to be a higher percentage of their income). That's equality, and it's the foundation of the country itself. I just wish it was present in everything we did, and not just items with dollar signs next to them.

My big issue on US Healthcare is with the insurance companies, as mentioned in previous posts. It's difficult for me to understand how cheap it could possibly be when the only thing I know is what I've grown up around. I'm not sure why these healthcare discussions transcend national lines unless such a person has plenty of experience in the systems of multiple nations.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Contacting a congressman is like pulling teeth

When Obama was out there saying "we're finally going to fix health care in America!" that was honestly the first time I've thought to myself "you're fucking lieing and you know it! This is a band-aid fix at best!"

I'd say it was more like treating dandruff by decapitation than a band-aid fix, but that's just me and maybe Frank Zappa if he was still around.

Obama has lied about many things, you know, like how we have to spend money to get out of debt. I've tried it and and can say, personally, it doesn't work. But he decided to spend my grandkid's money anyway, they'll be born owing $30k each in taxes.

Maybe they made that deal with Stupak because they realized federally funded abortions would reduce the number of potential taxpayers.

Holy shit, they did make history today - they made pro-lifers and pro-choicers angry at the same time.

Prolifers because they hoped the Dem holdouts had the stones to stick by the "Nays" for more than just the abortion issue, Prochoicers for letting the bill pass without the federal funding.

See that's the thing about this bill - there are lots of liberals and conservatives that hate this bill, but somehow, the Democrats in Washington are a totally different breed of liberal - the powerhungry, corrupt kind that will change stances on anything for win. And really, if that was your one hold-out on voting for or against that bill, your priorities are pretty fucked up to start with.

[Feba]

Re: Contacting a congressman is like pulling teeth

Again, this affects everyone, this isn't a law for a town in a state you don't live in.

Correct.

This is a bill that, regardless of who the congressman represents, affects you.

Correct.

I think we get a say on the matter. I think we should be able to speak with these people.

Incorrect.

Sorry, I don't agree with it any more than I do, but don't blame congressmen for one of the few wholly constitutionally guided and responsible things they do. This is the fault of the framers, not anyone alive today.

We don't elect these people to rule over us, we elect them to serve us. They've forgotten that.

No, they haven't. If they had, we'd see many more congressmen voting their heart instead of their district. Fearing the vote in your district-- acting to cover your own backside politically-- may not be honorable, but it is intentional.

Also, while I'm not going to bother trying to argue on the individual issue, left vs right, political stuff, I will say that you should be glad senators ignore people outside their district. If we ran on purely popular vote for everything federally, we'd be a much more liberal country. It's small states that have the edge, and it's small states that are far more likely to be conservative. And whatever you think of the Electoral College and who 'really' won FL, on a purely popular vote Gore definitely would've been President.

There are some benefits to everyone for going purely on popular votes though-- you don't need to target your campaign at specific areas, for one. A volunteer in Nowhere, Midwest that can talk 20 people into going one way is just as valuable as the volunteer in Big City, Swing State that can talk 20 people into going that way. Conservatives in liberal areas and liberals in conservative areas are more encouraged to get involved in getting out the vote with the knowledge that their effort will make a difference, instead of merely allowing their opponent to win by smaller margins. With the idea of swing states gone, politicians have to worry about appeasing people all across the country, instead of old people in Florida and steel workers in the rust belt. It would probably do a lot to reduce partisanization in this country to have people from both sides campaigning across the country, instead of just the 'useful' zip codes.

You just have to keep in mind that the reason a lot of the constitution is the way it is is to prevent Democracy from turning into a tyranny of the majority. And there's no fault on the part of these congressmen, considering about the only other option is to amend the constitution and change the foundation of our entire political system.