How the **** did this happen?!

[Yellow Mage]

Re: How the **** did this happen?!

Although, think of the profit they could make from confiscating all of those computers and selling them for parts! It would boost the economy I guess?

[Vyuru]

Re: How the **** did this happen?!

I doubt this will really be enforced

You're pretty stupid if you count on a law not being enforced IMO.

In particular, see Captain What'shisface, the Captain of a slaver who was executed during Lincoln's time. Guess what law he was betting wouldn't be enforced because it had never been enforced before? Heck, I think that was even his lawyer's main defense, that this was a poor man with a family, why should he have to face the consequences of his actions on a law that had as yet to be enforced?

It's been awhile since I last read a book on Lincoln, I don't remember the details.

Breaking the law is breaking the law, no ifs ands or buts about it. Sucks to be you if you're the one the government chooses to make an example of.

EDIT:

And that's you in the general sense, I'm not saying that you are personally stupid, just that anyone who is going to bet that the law won't be enforced is stupid.

[Nuriko]

Re: How the **** did this happen?!

Perhaps now you realize that American politics is more than just voting for a new president. Or maybe you don't. A president signing something into law or a president vetoing it, that law he approves can be denied by other elected officials and the laws he disapproves can still be signed into law without his approval.

America would be a lot worse off than it is right now if everything a president agreed with passed into law.

Actually, Bush doesn't veto anything ... he issues signing statements to make what passed into what he wanted.

[Gyotsha]

Re: How the **** did this happen?!

Breaking the law is breaking the law, no ifs ands or buts about it. Sucks to be you if you're the one the government chooses to make an example of.

Downloading software, music, and movies off the internet is currently illegal. A lot of people do these things and not many people are being punished. Most people just get a slap on the wrist if they're caught, which doesn't happen often.

J-Walking is against the law, yet if a police officer saw you commit this heinous offense, s/he would most likely just turn a blind eye.

I'm too lazy to think of any more, but there are laws out there that are not enforced because too many people commit the act or it's just so insignificant nobody cares. It's just my opinion that this won't be enforced because it falls under the category of the former.

Also, on another point. It made it sound like they'll have to look on your computer to see if they find pirated MP3s. Wouldn't they require some type of warrant to be able to do that?

[Telera]

Re: How the **** did this happen?!

How can they prove it's pirated? Maybe you once owned the CD and lost it. Perhaps it was broken. Stolen. Given to a friend who never returned it.

Tracking traffic to the 'usual suspect' sites is probably something they already do, and yet you don't see many people getting in trouble. AMVs break copywrite, but mostly they just get taken down and the user banned, at most. I'd be willing to bet every house in America that has a PC with Internet access has at least one 'pirated' song on it.

Do they plan on taking everyone's PCs away? That would just make more problems in the economy because there's quite a few people who tele-work or work completely from home and need the things.

Most idiotic move ever, even if it's enforced the uproar will force it to be rescinded eventually. People getting pissy = these idiots not getting re-elected and they know it. If only to keep in the game, it will lose support once the shit hits the fan.

In fact, the first time every device in a home gets taken, is probably when this gets taken to the Supreme Court and the entire law gets knocked down for being absolutely asinine.

[Ameroth]

Re: How the **** did this happen?!

How can they prove it's pirated?

It doesn't have any form of DRM and you cannot prove you ever legitimately purchased it. Or they subpoena your ISP for your bandwidth usage.

You're pretty stupid if you count on a law not being enforced IMO.

And you're equally as stupid for not seeing how blatantly retarded laws like these are. What America does not need anymore of is stupid laws that turn otherwise law-abiding citizens into criminals. This retarded law can easily be compared to drug laws which turn otherwise legit pot-smoking business men into criminals, the same kind of criminals like rapists. Obviously the idiots that run this country learned nothing from the Prohibition era of the 20's and 30's that turned normal people into criminals, bootleggers, and alcohol manufacturers. Banning the download and/or swapping of digital music is the same thing.

I refuse, flat out refuse, to pay money to the corrupt corporations that own rights to all our favorite artists' music. Paying $10, $15, or $20 for about 10-15 songs is stupidly outrageous, and it's even more outrageous to assume that you're somehow supporting your favorite band by paying the record labels for their music. You're not. On the contrary, the money an artist earns from CD sales is almost completely used to simply cover the cost of producing the CD in the first place.

The RIAA and related organizations have nothing better to do than ruin the real music industry, and prosecute the fans of said music. Do you think you should be punished/prosecuted for simply wanting to enjoy the art of someone's music? Is a song actually worth $.99?

The RIAA has openly admitting in court hearings they have not made a single dollar from prosecuting "music pirates." Instead, it's cost the 'music industry' hundreds of thousands of dollars to intimidate and prosecute music fans. Do you not see the injustice? Does it not outrage you that corporate fat cats who make more money in a single fiscal year than most of us will ever make in a lifetime are given the power to prosecute you for simply enjoying the music of an artist?

The RIAA can humbly fuck themselves. I will not stop downloading music. I will download more music if anything.

[Malacite]

Re: How the **** did this happen?!

Perhaps now you realize that American politics is more than just voting for a new president. Or maybe you don't. A president signing something into law or a president vetoing it, that law he approves can be denied by other elected officials and the laws he disapproves can still be signed into law without his approval.

Stow the holyier-than-thou attitude, I know how legislation works. I'm amazed that something is ridiculous passed though. The music industry can kiss my ass too. Why should anyone pay when bands and solo artists are basically rehashing the same fucking song 5 times over with a shiny new package. Did no one (or rather not enough) stand up to this? This is just the sort of BS HRC would push for >:X and hell I bet she voted for it.

That goes for Hollywood too. Stop making crap and maybe people will be inclined to pay for it. I understand and agree with copyright laws, however I also believe that customers are entitled to at least decent, original products.


Also, ty Ameroth for pointing out the failure of Prohibition. Also, not that I don't think it's a good cause but look at what the "War on Drugs" has cost the tax payers thus far. Never mind it's an unwinable battle with the only real solution being the U.S. government growing a pair, get tough on Mexico and for christ sake do something about the borders and tunnels being dug under them.

[Jarre]

Re: How the **** did this happen?!

What gets me about bills like this is the politicians are unaware of the whole thing. I would think at least 75% of the computer owning American politician will have downloaded at least 1 illegal file. Are they going to raid 75% of the population?

[Feba]

Re: How the **** did this happen?!

Guess what law he was betting wouldn't be enforced because it had never been enforced before? Heck, I think that was even his lawyer's main defense, that this was a poor man with a family, why should he have to face the consequences of his actions on a law that had as yet to be enforced?

Actually, that's a valid defense. There are some places where things like drugs and prostitution are technically illegal (The Netherlands, Thailand), but because the police generally turn a blind eye to it courts have ruled against the prosecution when they HAVE tried to prosecute.

[Etra]

Re: How the **** did this happen?!

It doesn't have any form of DRM and you cannot prove you ever legitimately purchased it. Or they subpoena your ISP for your bandwidth usage.

They can't prove otherwise. The things I buy off of iTunes I rip into DRM free files (using iTunes.)

Just thought I would add that.

[Mhurron]

Re: How the **** did this happen?!

They can't prove otherwise.

They don't have to, you have to prove you have those copies legitimately. Which honestly, you can't.

[Vyuru]

Re: How the **** did this happen?!

Downloading software, music, and movies off the internet is currently illegal. A lot of people do these things and not many people are being punished. Most people just get a slap on the wrist if they're caught, which doesn't happen often.

J-Walking is against the law, yet if a police officer saw you commit this heinous offense, s/he would most likely just turn a blind eye.

That's true, but the fact still remains that you are breaking the law and are subject to punishment. It might not happen, and it might. I'm merely saying that whether or not the law has been upheld, it can and at some point most likely be upheld and acted on. There are still jaywalkers and MP3 downloaders that get caught and punished while there are others who get away with it. But I have yet to hear of one who did get caught who went free because "everyone else was doing it".

Also, there is a difference between getting caught and punished for an offense, and getting caught, taking it to court, and having a court ruling that what you did was illegal and regardless of the law not being enforced in all cases or before you or whatever, you will be punished for this.

Has any jaywalker or illegal MP3 downloader ever successfully taken it to trial, and gotten away with the defense that everyone else is doing it and the law hasn't or has not often been enforced? That is what I am specifically talking about. Yeah, it might not be enforced, but if it is, I do not believe that you have a valid defense against it then.

Also, on another point. It made it sound like they'll have to look on your computer to see if they find pirated MP3s. Wouldn't they require some type of warrant to be able to do that?

Well, if websites can track where you've been, whether or not that's legal I don't know, then I'm sure it'd be easy for something like Windows Media player to keep track of what songs are on your computer. Especially if you use the feature to update the songs on your computer.

And you're equally as stupid for not seeing how blatantly retarded laws like these are.

And where have I said what I thought about this law? I have not said a word about whether I think this law is stupid or not. So far, I have been talking about whether or not I think it's stupid to count on this law not being enforced.

and it's even more outrageous to assume that you're somehow supporting your favorite band by paying the record labels for their music. You're not. On the contrary, the money an artist earns from CD sales is almost completely used to simply cover the cost of producing the CD in the first place.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the artist gets X amount of dollars for producing the CD, some may be signed into a contract with the company for X amount of time and paid X amount of dollars. Now if that artist's CDs don't sell, do you think the record company is going to be willing to pay them to produce another CD? Or sign them on for another contract? Whether the artist is getting any money from CD sales or not, you are supporting your favorite band/artist by buying their work.

Why should anyone pay when bands and solo artists are basically rehashing the same fucking song 5 times over with a shiny new package.

This is why you wait for the Greatest Hits or Best Of CDs to come out, or just be selective about what CDs you buy. Do you read the back of a new CD and see how many are repeats and how many are new songs and then decide whether or not you want to buy it? Or do you just buy every new CD as it comes out? Personally, I don't care if they stick a bunch of repeats onto a CD, I'll buy the CD with the songs I like on it, and with the fewest repeats. They are not at all hard to find.

Actually, that's a valid defense. There are some places where things like drugs and prostitution are technically illegal (The Netherlands, Thailand), but because the police generally turn a blind eye to it courts have ruled against the prosecution when they HAVE tried to prosecute.

I've heard about the Netherlands and Thailand, and I think one or two other foreign countries as well. But do you know of any cases in the U.S where a case was brought to trial and dismissed because the law had never been enforced before or had not commonly been enforced before? I think I've herad of a few crews for slave ships being let go, I don't think I've heard of any that actually went to court. I think in general the person breaking the law is either not taken in, or given a slap on the wrist.

[Durahansolo]

Re: How the **** did this happen?!

$222K Illegal Downloading Verdict Tossed, On Grounds Judge Misguided Jury; Woman Had Been Convicted Of Making 24 Songs Available Online - CBS News This topic made me remember hearing about this story earlier this year.

[Telera]

Re: How the **** did this happen?!

What sucks the most is that people don't seem to sell singles CDs anymore. I haven't been able to find a store in my area in ages that does, and I'm tired of sinking $20 for one song, when everything else that artists does I loathe. Sometimes even people/genres I hate happen to turn out a single song I enjoy, but I'm not paying for all 20 of them. One, yes, if I could find the damn single CD I'd have umpteen of them.

Buying it off iTunes doesn't help, as there's been a few cases where the artist did not approve of their song being put up there, and that's still not 'supporting' them when that's the case. I also am not installing the damn program on my PC. Rhapsody I might could buy it off of, but I haven't even bothered to ever explore that avenue. In fact, most times I just never get the song at all, as I don't have a torrenting program. What pirated music I do have friends have burnt for me and physically handed me, or sent me over MSN. And the only thing I've really been forced into finding is stuff like Evanescence's Origin, because there are no more copies, and the stuff you buy used doesn't support them in the least, much like 'used' Video Games.

And I hate buying songs online simply because of the DRM. So if I can't find the single and don't d/l it then I choose to never have it at all. That's even worse for the artist. DRM is turning potential customers into people who either never buy, or wait until a hacker makes a cracked version (in the case of PC games.) I know I adamantly refuse to buy any of Bioware's PC games until they take that bullshit program out of them. And so have many others. They're losing more money from the lost honest customers than they lose through the pirates.

In summary: Define Irony- Bush thinking this will help his approval rating.

[Gyotsha]

Re: How the **** did this happen?!

They don't have to, you have to prove you have those copies legitimately. Which honestly, you can't.

Innocent until proven guilty.

That's true, but the fact still remains that you are breaking the law and are subject to punishment. It might not happen, and it might. I'm merely saying that whether or not the law has been upheld, it can and at some point most likely be upheld and acted on. There are still jaywalkers and MP3 downloaders that get caught and punished while there are others who get away with it. But I have yet to hear of one who did get caught who went free because "everyone else was doing it".

I get what you're saying, Vyuru. There are of course some unfortunate people that have been punished for these things, but the vast majority of people never have or never will get punished for these insignificant crimes. I'm just trying to say that it will most likely be the same with this law; the majority of people will get away with it, save for a few unlucky souls.