Hey, south-east US, bend over.

[Telera]

Re: Hey, south-east US, bend over.

Yep. This (and everyone else) just serves to exercise my point perfectly: People don't consider their life as a whole. They look at a place to live, a place to work, and a way to get there. They don't consider them all together, despite the huge relations between them.

Perhaps if our economy wasn't crashing, which hadn't closed about 50% of the potential jobs in the small town I live in, I could consider making the two meet. Though, even if I had, I live about 10-15 minutes by car from the town proper, on very mountainous, curvy roads. There are no bike lanes, no metro, no carpooling services from this place to town, or even to the major areas where people around here go to get jobs.

I hate cities. I was faintly asthmatic as a child; I'm still sensitive to poor air quality. I was born with a heart murmur. The last thing I'm going to do is move to a metropolitan area and attempt to live there. I would have to massively uproot my entire life just to 'stick it to the oil company'.

As for driving the short distances: there are none around here, save the mailbox, with is just a short walk up the hill and we do walk that. And when I'm at work and I want to go to another store, I walk instead of drive most days.

If I lived closer to most everywhere I wanted/needed to go, I would walk or bike. I have friends that do. But in some more rural, out of the way parts of the US, it won't ever be feasible.

[Raydeus]

Re: Hey, south-east US, bend over.

If you would like to keep insisting that we are not "Better" than anything els on this planet. Please walk with me in a sense to the realm of "created in his own image"

There.

And you make it sound like what you say is difficult to understand or something.

Do you have any idea of how many times that sort of theory has appeared in sci-fi up to this day? Anyway, that still means nothing in regards of us being special or something. Just because you marvel at the miracle (or whatever you want to call it) of conciousness that doesn't mean it changes anything about our place in this planet.

[Luna]

Re: Hey, south-east US, bend over.

There.

And you make it sound like what you say is difficult to understand or something.

Do you have any idea of how many times that sort of theory has appeared in sci-fi up to this day? Anyway, that still means nothing in regards of us being special or something. Just because you marvel at the miracle (or whatever you want to call it) of conciousness that doesn't mean it changes anything about our place in this planet.

Please feel free to give me some examples of what I just said that supposedly apeared on "sci-fi". Last time I checked those where from my own thoughts. Unless you can "magically" quote something from sci-fi that sounds anything like what I stated.

1. I still did not say we where "Better" than anything on this planet. I was referring to your argument towards me about something I clearly was not insisting.

2. Where do you get this........... "changes anything about our planet"? I mean come on........ really. It changes everything. How can you not see that? Are you purposely trying to argue with me with no weight to hold up what you are saying?

To me it seems as if you are trying to belittle humanity. Please feel free to correct me b/c it pains me to think there is actually someone out there like that.

P.S. I will not continue to discuss this issue with you until you stop saying the same thing over and over in an attempt to prove me wrong when in fact we are both speaking on two very different levels.

[Feba]

Re: Hey, south-east US, bend over.

Perhaps if our economy wasn't crashing,

All the more reason to cut costs and reconsider your life; including financial situation.

I hate cities. I was faintly asthmatic as a child; I'm still sensitive to poor air quality. I was born with a heart murmur. The last thing I'm going to do is move to a metropolitan area and attempt to live there. I would have to massively uproot my entire life just to 'stick it to the oil company'.

As for driving the short distances: there are none around here, save the mailbox, with is just a short walk up the hill and we do walk that. And when I'm at work and I want to go to another store, I walk instead of drive most days.

I am sympathetic to this; and like I said, I don't expect people to change their entire life overnight just for the sake of using less oil. What I'm saying is, most people simply don't do all that they could. Ask yourself "Are there trips I don't have to use the car for?", and see how often you use the car anyway (and more importantly: "Why?"). As it is, it sounds like you're doing pretty well. You could try to organize a carpool yourself; or challenge yourself to see how easy it is to bike on those roads (I don't pretend to know what the terrain is like there; in the few places I've lived in the past 5-6 years or so, ten minutes is wildly different, and I'm sure it is there too)-- but it's not always possible. Much of the US is reliant on cars because it was made that way.

I do want to confront one misconception, though: You don't need a bike lane to ride. In fact, bike lanes can actually be really shitty for biking, to the point where a lot of cyclists won't use them because of their condition. I'm pretty sure that everywhere in the US bikes are considered vehicles, same as cars, motorcycles, mopeds, horse and buggy, tractors, and so on. Check local laws, of course, but it's hardly a requirement.

[Luna]

Re: Hey, south-east US, bend over.

I do want to confront one misconception, though: You don't need a bike lane to ride. In fact, bike lanes can actually be really shitty for biking, to the point where a lot of cyclists won't use them because of their condition. I'm pretty sure that everywhere in the US bikes are considered vehicles, same as cars, motorcycles, mopeds, horse and buggy, tractors, and so on. Check local laws, of course, but it's hardly a requirement.

Makes me think back of my home state lol in PA. The Amish using Buggys all the time. I used to wish I could travel back in time and live during the age where cars didn't exist and we relied on other means of transportation.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Hey, south-east US, bend over.

Makes me think back of my home state lol in PA. The Amish using Buggys all the time. I used to wish I could travel back in time and live during the age where cars didn't exist and we relied on other means of transportation.

And people died from appendicitis.

Also, can we keep this free of religion or references to some mythical creator as well please.

[Raydeus]

Re: Hey, south-east US, bend over.

I am sympathetic to this; and like I said, I don't expect people to change their entire life overnight just for the sake of using less oil. What I'm saying is, most people simply don't do all that they could. Ask yourself "Are there trips I don't have to use the car for?", and see how often you use the car anyway (and more importantly: "Why?"). As it is, it sounds like you're doing pretty well. You could try to organize a carpool yourself; or challenge yourself to see how easy it is to bike on those roads (I don't pretend to know what the terrain is like there; in the few places I've lived in the past 5-6 years or so, ten minutes is wildly different, and I'm sure it is there too)-- but it's not always possible. Much of the US is reliant on cars because it was made that way.

I do want to confront one misconception, though: You don't need a bike lane to ride. In fact, bike lanes can actually be really shitty for biking, to the point where a lot of cyclists won't use them because of their condition. I'm pretty sure that everywhere in the US bikes are considered vehicles, same as cars, motorcycles, mopeds, horse and buggy, tractors, and so on. Check local laws, of course, but it's hardly a requirement.

The cultural changes coupled with the goverment work (in areas like public transportation) required to make it work are pretty daunting to expect anything to change any time soon.

And while bikes and motorcycles are considered vehicles that doesn't mean drivers respect them as such, which is part of the change required if you really want to skip the bike lanes.

I wonder what will happen first, if they will introduce a new technology in mass that will allow people to retain their life style without wasting so much energy or if there will be a go-green cultural shift with people using technology along with environmentally friendly practices (such as rarely using their car) to reduce energy consumption.




_____

P.S. I will not continue to discuss this issue with you until you stop saying the same thing over and over in an attempt to prove me wrong when in fact we are both speaking on two very different levels.

Eh, I rather not waste time discussing anything with an illuminated one.

[Feba]

Re: Hey, south-east US, bend over.

The cultural changes coupled with the goverment work (in areas like public transportation) required to make it work are pretty daunting to expect anything to change any time soon.

Actually, not really. Even small changes on a personal level could have huge benefits on a societal level. Five tiny things people could do:
1- Buy a single plastic water bottle and refill it instead of buying bottled water
2- Keep your tires properly pressurized.
3- Make sure your house is well insulated; and improve insulation
4- For short trips, walk, ride a bike, skate, or so on.
5- Join and start community programs to help share resources, such as freecycling, carpooling, and so on.

They're not asking too much, they're pretty cheap in general (insulation not so much, but it will pay back over time), and if you combine the effects of the entire population even trying to do it it would be a giant help. You don't have to be a treehugger to do a few simple things. CFLs are another example of this-- they're better for your wallet (they cost more at first, but they're cheaper in the long run because they last longer and use less energy), they're better for the environment (again, use less energy. They do contain small amounts of mercury, however far more mercury would be produced through burning fuels to power traditional lightbulb, and they're better for society (energy conservation again)

Of course if you CAN sell your car and live with a bike, that would be a huge help; but even just having everyone ride their bike to the post office and back or something along those lines would improve things.

[Luna]

Re: Hey, south-east US, bend over.

And people died from appendicitis.

That and the common cold lol

[Telera]

Re: Hey, south-east US, bend over.

I do understand what you're saying, Feba. And about terrain and the like, it does vary from place to place, but it would probably take a good hour+ to bike to town proper from where I live. Hours to where I work. My brothers once walked to town from our house and it took 3 hours. Biking isn't that much faster, so we'll say an hour and a half? There's no bike trail, but as someone else said they tend to suck anyway. But the real danger lies with there being not very well tended road shoulders to ride on, people who drive very quickly, and lots of blind curves.

Mountain region, yanno how that is.

I pretty much only drive when I have to because of gas prices. I do travel w/ my friend or mom on days we have a similar schedule as we work in the same general area. But outside of that, there is little else I can do, given the nature of where I live, and the state of my lungs. I'm already starting to have issues breathing well at my job on the days the Air Quality is really bad in the metro, because it seems to seep around like a poison even that far. Starting to wonder if I shouldn't see a doctor.

[Feba]

Re: Hey, south-east US, bend over.

uh, biking is much faster than walking, unless you barely pedal and just coast most of the way. Walking is usually around 3-4 mph, biking can get upwards of 12mph pretty easily. I mean, still, not everyone has hours a day to spend getting to and from work, but judging biking from walking is kinda like judging a bullet train from a subway. And you don't need to ride on the shoulder, either. Again, most places I'm pretty sure you're entitled to a lane. You probably should ride as far to the right as possible to make it safer for people to pass you, but if the right side of the lane is dangerous, it's only sane to move over.

[Ruuma]

Re: Hey, south-east US, bend over.

I cycle to work despite owning a car. It takes me 20 minutes of decent cycling and its 15 minutes by car (I take some dodgy shortcuts whilst cycling) Petrol prices have been rising here in the UK too and it doesnt help when people use their 4x4 to drop their kids off at a BUS STOP. That and school kids round here think they are nigh on invincible and just walk out into the road whenever.

The saving in petrol alone is worth me carrying on cycling through the UK's now never-ending rainfall winter but it would be nice if some proper cycle lanes were set up on the roads, its not encouraging to be nearly knocked over on a daily basis just trying to get to work and back.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Hey, south-east US, bend over.

Downside to cycling is the quality of air at work when you have people reeking of sweat because the majority of employers do not provide a shower facility.

[Feba]

Re: Hey, south-east US, bend over.

that's one downside, yep. And bathing in the sink isn't always effective. I've heard of some people getting a membership at a gym near their job so they can use the showers there, although that requires a gym of course.

Getting your employer to support cycling would help, of course. I've also heard from various athletes that after awhile your sweat starts to smell less, because you're sweating much more water. That probably depends on your diet quite a bit too, though.

[Raydeus]

Re: Hey, south-east US, bend over.

Yeah if you stop exersicing for a while you get to go through the detox period when you are sweating all the bad stuff inside your body once you start exercising again.