FYI: The world ends next Wednesday

[Feba]

Re: FYI: The world ends next Wednesday

if all goes well, not only will physics questions be answered, but also philosophical questions.

what

if all goes well they could very possibly and undeniably DISPROVE the existence of the "One God".

what

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt1Yo610lG0]YouTube - LHC SATANS STARGATE 2008[/ame]

what.

[Bonez]

Re: FYI: The world ends next Wednesday

Exactly what it means. :p

When I refer to "The One God", I am of course talking about the Christian, Islamic, and Judaic God. But, of course, other spiritual entities from the Archaic era.

For those who don't know Presocratics and Sophists were groups of people who lived in Ancient Greece and Tore down religion and belief's in Homeric Gods.

Presocratics were scientists.
Sophists were Philosophers.

[Feba]

Re: FYI: The world ends next Wednesday

Exactly what it means. :p

"what" was short for "if you're going to go around making outrageous and fairly nonsensical claims, you need to back that shit up.


what what."

[tebian]

Re: FYI: The world ends next Wednesday

From God to Black Holes in one thread this is truly great stuff.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFAMW1sM_k8]YouTube - Doctor Who - Episode 13 - Journey's End Trailer[/ame]

[eticket109]

Re: FYI: The world ends next Wednesday

Wait... the actual full powered collisions won't happen til October?

I keep telling all my bill collectors that I'll pay them on Saturday, laughing and then hanging up. This may be a long weekend.

[Ziero]

Re: FYI: The world ends next Wednesday

I didn't see this posted but rest assured... if the LHC doesn't kill us, we'll find a way

The 5 Scientific Experiments Most Likely to End the World | Cracked.com

I gotta admit, I laughed

Loved how the LHC came up three times in that list of 5

But at least if we go down, we'll be taking out the rest of the infinite cosmos with us!

[Mhurron]

Re: FYI: The world ends next Wednesday

Wait... the actual full powered collisions won't happen til October?

I keep telling all my bill collectors that I'll pay them on Saturday, laughing and then hanging up. This may be a long weekend.

Honestly everyone and their dog has been saying this, but sometimes it just seems to be presented well enough to get a chuckle.

[Bonez]

Re: FYI: The world ends next Wednesday

Well, I'm not going around trying to disprove the existence of whatever "God" or "Gods" you believe in. I was just stating the obvious (obvious if you read the article).

The purpose of the experiment is to gain a better understanding of the universe. It just so happens that particles found on this earth (oxygen, Hydrogen, Nitrogen, etc etc. . .) only make up about 20% of what makes up the universe. The other (about) 80% of the universe is unknown. A man named Higgs suggested the existence of a theoretical particle he dubbed "The Higgs Particle" which has also become known as "The God Patricle". In the Hadron experitments they will be crashing beams at each other at a speed that of 99.99% the speed of light, crashing particles together at this speed (600 beams per second) should replicate the "Big Bang". Well, not necesarilly replicate it becuase if you know anything about Calculus you know about limits and their discontinuities, but I digress. They plan to simulate the universe about 1 trillionth of a second after it's creation. The God particle becomes important at this point becuase with the information at hand they will finally be able to tell what it is made of. With this information they could very well disprove the existence of God.

The God Particle - National Geographic Magazine

This link will navigate you to an easier way to understanding.

"what" was short for "if you're going to go around making outrageous and fairly nonsensical claims, you need to back that shit up.


what what."

Nonsensical, outrageous claims? We're talking about the universe being ripped apart because of machine that Man built. What I said is not nonsensical compared to this.

This is a thread about "The end of the world" and "The Big Bang" and Existence as we know it. I have very right to mention God here. If you are easily offended by such subject then I suggest you don't read them. I'm not here for Apologetics.

Sorry if I offended anyone. <.<

[Feba]

Re: FYI: The world ends next Wednesday

With this information they could very well disprove the existence of God.

You do not get it.

I'll put it in plain terms: Explain, precisely, how anything the LHC can do could possibly disprove gods.

Keep in mind that, as previously mentioned, the Higgs Boson is not actually god.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: FYI: The world ends next Wednesday

Keep in mind that, as previously mentioned, the Higgs Boson is not actually god.

That part's kinda important.

[Bonez]

Re: FYI: The world ends next Wednesday

Of course the Higgs Boson is not God.

Proof One:

Recreation of the "Begining of Time". The Hadron Collider itself is enough proof. Man is infact recreating the begining of time in a "test tube" of sorts. Refer to the Old Testement"

Genesis 1:1

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

BLB (KJV) Gen 1

The fact that we now have the power to recreate the unvierse implies that we have the power of God. If God is real, then God is perfect and since man is imperfect then he cannot hope to acquire the perfection of God. Hence, the power to Create the Universe is unnattainable. Yet here it is : The Hadron Collider.

Side note : God is perfect. Refer to Plato's idea of "The World of the Forms"

Proof Two:

The theoretical Higgs Particle is supposedly what gives objects it's mass. Think for a moment about Mass. What is mass? It's an idea, somthing not real, somthing that requires the existence of a God to make sense. He is what holds the universe together. It is at this point that we come to a two way street: (Keep in mind that the Higgs Boson is theoretical)

If it turns out that the Higgs Particle is real, then we have an explanation. I.e. Here's how it all started, this is why, this is how the universe works, It was created this way. The existence of a God is highly unlikely.

the fundamental forces applied and considered in Physics... the "Four" are:
>Gravitational Force
>Electric Force
>Weak Force
>Strong Force

Einstein believed that these forces were actually one force : God.

As these forces come together in a Man Made machine, we are essentially disproving that God created such a thing through sheer will and after (if) the Higgs Particle is discovered then essentially it will disprove his existence all together. There will be no reason for him to exist in other words.

To Sum : these experiments might prove that God had no role in the creation of the universe.

Grav. Force + Electric Force + Weak Force + Strong Force = Hig. Part. = No God.

If the experiments fail, then that itself is proof of his existence. (Or Maybe just human error.)

I guess I worded my thoughts wrong earlier. What I meant to say is that this experiment could either PROVE or DISPROVE his existence.

Once again : Sorry If I offended anyone. I don't mean to, I just say what I think.

[Feba]

Re: FYI: The world ends next Wednesday

The fact that we now have the power to recreate the unvierse implies that we have the power of God. If God is real, then God is perfect and since man is imperfect then he cannot hope to acquire the perfection of God. Hence, the power to Create the Universe is unnattainable. Yet here it is : The Hadron Collider.

Side note : God is perfect. Refer to Plato's idea of "The World of the Forms"

Your argument, and the many flaws in them. "Many" meaning "I lol'd".:

1- Man can recreate the creation of the universe [Flaw: We can't]
2- Assume god created the universe
3- Man now has the power of god [Flaw: There's nothing that says that creation makes something a god, and again, can't]
4- Assume god is perfect
5- Man cannot have gods' power because he is imperfect [Flaw: Godly powers need not come from perfection]


Basically, you've made a bunch of really bizarre assumptions that basically boil down to "being able to recreate the big bang makes you god", ignoring the fact that we aren't actually recreating the big bang.


As for 2:

What is mass? It's an idea, somthing not real, somthing that requires the existence of a God to make sense.

Uh... what?

If it turns out that the Higgs Particle is real, then we have an explanation.

Then it doesn't require the existence of a god, does it?

Saying "Oh, this makes no sense and requires a supernatural explanation... until we have a natural one!" makes about as much sense from a physics perspective as saying "oh, I don't know why these ruins are here, but the fact that they ARE clearly means that aliens built them." does from an archaeological one.

The existence of a God is highly unlikely.

Which science has been doing for hundreds of years. We have a pretty good idea of how things work on a practical scale. We know why the earth revolves around the sun, we know why apples fall to the ground, we have a pretty good idea of how life can be created naturally, and how simple organisms can develop into more complex ones. We might not know exactly how gravity WORKS, and we can see that there's some weird shit up with it. The LHC and Higgs Boson will help to straighten this out, but we know now gravity pulls apples to the ground, keeps the moon and the sky, and keeps the earth going round the sun. We might not know some of the specifics of evolution, but we know now that all animals change over time in order to best adapt to their environment.

Still, none of that actually does disprove god. Just because we can explain the universe in a naturalistic manner does not mean that there is no guiding force, say, creating those laws or somesuch.

As well, the idea that the higgs not existing would prove god is hilarious. Would it show a mistake in the model? Absolutely. Would it instantly mean that there's no other explanation besides the supernatural? Absolutely not, and see the above archeology example.

[The Mauva Syndicate]

Re: FYI: The world ends next Wednesday

Um, a couple of points...

The LHC is not recreating the Big bang. It is SIMULATING the conditions of a very brief time after the big bang on a quantum scale. Right after the Big Bang there was a lot of pressure and a lot of energy, that's all that's being recreated, pressure and energy (and, on a cosmic scale, not that much pressure or energy), so, we are not duplicating creation.

Even if the Higgs is discovered (a big "IF", btw, I'm with the m-theorists, I think there's more to it), it cannot disprove the existence of God (this is a common logical fallacy - you cannot disprove the existence of anything which cannot be proven to exist - there is always a "begat") In this case, "what begat the Big Bang?" - the higgs would NEVER answer this question and thus, God's existence is still safe, much to the chagrin of many I suppose.

The Catholic Church even acknowledged this essential reality (which, in a marvelous display of ostrich-like behaviour the American Synods and Southern Baptist Convention deny, like Amadinejhad denies the Holocaust) in one of JPII's last Encyclicals, when it was posited that if God created the big bang, then everything which came after was part of his grand design, including evolution and physics and everything else. This viewpoint is consistent with current theory as there may never be a way to know what happened prior to the Big Bang - as "before" is meaningless in an outside time frame of reference.

So, I disagree with you, the LHC will neither prove nor disprove God - Besides, I think it's got quite enough to be going on with at the moment, what with the Higgs, Dark Energy, Anti matter and Super-symmetry pairs (The four primary experiments/detectors), please don't saddle it with any additional unrealistic expectations.

[Bonez]

Re: FYI: The world ends next Wednesday

You're very right, Feba. I may have said some things that can easily be taken out of context, which you clearly have done, but for the most part I still believe that I am right.

I began my argument at a logical stand point of someone who understands that God is not real in the first place. The Hadron Collider is just further proof of it. Undeniable Proof.

Earlier I said that the Hadron Collider is "Recreating" the universe. What I should of said (I did not know that I would be taken so literally) Simulating the Creation of the Universe. Yes, we are simulating the Creation of the universe, but this isn't a computer simulation. This is taking place in reality. Since we are merely simulating the creation then we must know HOW it happened. I don't see God working on this reactor.

But no matter what I say, Apologetics will always have somthing to say about it. If you believe in a All-Powerful being who will gladly send you to hell for not believing in him, but still infinitly loves you, then be my guest. But if you want to know the truth, I have loads of it for you.

This Video is Necessary for this argument:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLlSySWuoiA&feature=related"]YouTube - God does not Exist[/ame]

If you watched the video and read the articles about the Hadron reactor you will now understand that since the reactor is Simulating the Creation of the Universe, this means that they will see every particle that takes part in the tapestry of the universe. Since we will be able to examine every particle in the universe then we can assume that the material that creates "God" will be created as well. Now, to reitterate somthing that I have said before: The particales on this planet make up only about 20% of what the universe is made of, the rest is theoretical. Since we will be able to examine the other 80%, we will be able to determine the existence of a "God".

I hope that I finally managed to explain that to you as simply as I could Feba. I did not mean to get to technical. I understand that it takes some people a very long time to understand simple concepts.

Thanks for your time. I'm going to play FFXI now :p

[Caspian]

Re: FYI: The world ends next Wednesday

So wait. I still don't get how this is going to prove undeniably that a spiritual being who's very existence lies outside physics and our entire reality doesn't exist.
Those are incredibly long legs to be able to make that leap of logic.
God's particles???? Seriously?

And in regards to one of your previous posts. I don't think anyone here seriously thought the world would end today. I thought it would have been hilarious if humans were responsible for destroying absolutely everything, but I never actually thought it would happen. The thread title and most of the posts within were jokes, not to be taken seriously.