Palin announced as Republican VP nominee.

[Feba]

Re: Palin announced as Republican VP nominee.

How do you know she has 'no ability' to 'run' the country?

Because she does not even understand the office she has been offered, and she doesn't even have a full term as governor of a very small state (population-wise) to back her up.

To answer a few questions at once here, while she could probably handle the 'signing bills into law' bit, there is a lot more that she has little if any exposure to. Even as she was being introduced yesterday, there were people in the media worrying that she was going to suffer because she simply hadn't been in the national spotlight before. If she had to take presidential office, how would she handle talks with foreign leaders? How many of those countries does she even know about? And how could she speak honestly, when she doesn't understand what goes on in her own country?

Mageo, your claim that I have my head "up Barack's ass" is hilarious. I think he'll make a competent president, there are things I dislike about him, but in general I do not look at him very highly. It is merely that McCain is such a bad choice (and McCain/Palin simply insane) for the presidency that I cannot do anything but oppose it. If it had been Senator McCain of a few years ago, of the 2000 elections, I might be neutral. If it had been the Senator McCain you see in ads, I might be neutral. If McCain had kept his viewpoints and been honest, I might even support him. But right now, in 2008, he's a bad choice for president and if I can get a few people to vote against him, all the better.

[MrMageo]

Re: Palin announced as Republican VP nominee.

The choice is not between the people it is between the parties. (which why the milf running with mccain is not going to be getting the votes to them they think she will.)

Anyone can be president even you feba, but when it comes down to it, all the president is is the front man for the parties platform.

Do you know anything about McCains past or how an election works? McCain must say things and do things to make it look like he is on the same page as the party. His past shows a different story than he is reading now. So yes if you think McCain is no good for president than your head is up barrack obama's ass, if you think that the dempcratic party is better for america then you will be on the same page as most people. (you seriously think GWB got in because of his personality? He rode the coattails of his party. Just like BO or JM will do, and all the presidents after them, and before them)

[Feba]

Re: Palin announced as Republican VP nominee.

That so.

Then why do campaigns go so far out of the way to insult their opponents on a personal level? Why do scandals on a personal level (such as affairs) do so much to damn and ruin politicians? Why do candidates spend so much of their time talking about their backstory and personal life (McPOW, and Barack's mixed-cultural-heritage thing? Why do attack ads almost always target the individual, and not their party?

I don't pretend to know what's going on in Canadian politics, and you really ought not pretend that you know how American politics work. The fact is, the person beside the (R) or (D) IS important, here at least. It will have a large influence on many, if not the majority of voters.

[Icemage]

Re: Palin announced as Republican VP nominee.

For what it's worth, I think Palin is a reasonable choice for McCain, but doesn't really address his primary weakness, which is the perception that he is out of touch/too old to be president. Her incoming position being governor of Alaska doesn't give her the best perspective.

On the plus side for him, she might appeal to female voters - that's certainly the idea, with McCain trying to steal HRC's supporters away from Obama. Unfortunately, I don't know if that's going to be a double-edged sword for him, since it also might alienate his own Republican base who'd be horrified by the idea of a relatively inexperienced female in the Oval Office should something happen to him (again the issue of age pops up).

She's not a bad choice. Certainly superior to someone like Mitt Romney, who wouldn't have done anything to help McCain at all aside from solidifying the conservative base (which tends to stand pat in Presidential elections anyhow).


Icemage

[Feba]

Re: Palin announced as Republican VP nominee.

Personally, everything I've heard from female voters is that they're insulted that McCain and his campaign think that they can get the female vote just by putting a woman on the ticket; and that he's choosing a woman who looks good but is horribly lacking in experience, exposure, and quite possibly ethics. Basically, it's the whole "choosing the pretty young secretary over an older, knowledgeable business woman" anger that I see. Would be interesting to see a poll of how many female voters are insulted/don't care/actually interested. I doubt more than a few idiots are going to switch solely on the basis of her gender though; it's just too demeaning to women that he expects them to.

Also, some of you might enjoy reading David Frum's Diary on National Review Online . David Frum is a conservative and former speechwriter for the current President Bush, and has strong criticisms against Palin from that perspective.

The longer I think about it, the less well this selection sits with me. And I increasingly doubt that it will prove good politics. The Palin choice looks cynical. The wires are showing.

John McCain wanted a woman: good.

He wanted to keep conservatives and pro-lifers happy: naturally.

He wanted someone who looked young and dynamic: smart.

And he discovered that he could not reconcile all these imperatives with the stated goal of finding a running mate qualified to assume the duties of the presidency "on day one."

Sarah Palin may well have concealed inner reservoirs of greatness. I hope so! But I'd guess that John McCain does not have a much better sense of who she is, what she believes, and the extent of her abilities than my enthusiastic friends over at the Corner. It's a wild gamble, undertaken by our oldest ever first-time candidate for president in hopes of changing the board of this election campaign. Maybe it will work. But maybe (and at least as likely) it will reinforce a theme that I'd be pounding home if I were the Obama campaign: that it's John McCain for all his white hair who represents the risky choice, while it is Barack Obama who offers cautious, steady, predictable governance.

Here's I fear the worst harm that may be done by this selection. The McCain campaign's slogan is "country first." It's a good slogan, and it aptly describes John McCain, one of the most self-sacrificing, gallant, and honorable men ever to seek the presidency.

But question: If it were your decision, and you were putting your country first, would you put an untested small-town mayor a heartbeat away from the presidency?

______________________________
I thought it would be good to see what some Alaskan republicans think of the pick. After all, they should know her better than most, and not be biased against her by trying to win the election.

McCain's choice catches politicians by surprise: AP Alaska | adn.com

Many of her supporters seem to think it would be good for Alaska. They don't seem to be ready to say it would be good for the country, though.

House Majority Leader John Harris, a Valdez Republican, said he thought Palin's choice was good for the state.

"Alaska has been given a national stage like it hasn't had in some period of time - a good national stage, let's put it that way," Harris said.

Asked if it was good for the country, he was noncommittal.

"I don't know. Obviously John McCain must have thought it was a good choice or he wouldn't have made it," Harris said.

[in the second article, scroll down for link]

He didn't want to get into the issue of her qualifications.

"She's old enough," Harris said. "She's a U.S. citizen."

I have a feeling that this quote is going to be showing up a lot. It's just really, really scathing.

State Senate President Lyda Green, from Palin's hometown of Wasilla, said she thought it was a joke when someone called her at 6 a.m. to tell her the news.

"She's not prepared to be governor. How can she be prepared to be vice president or president?" Green told the Anchorage Daily News. "Look at what she's done to this state. What would she do to the nation?"

Choice stuns state politicians: Politics | adn.com

An independent, not a republican:

Andrew Halcro, perhaps Palin's biggest political rival in Alaska, had a mixed reaction.

"When I first heard it, I thought, wow, that's great for Alaska. Then I thought, wait, what just happened? Because of course the lack of experience does jump out at you," Halcro said.

Palin is a skilled campaigner able to make people believe in her, said Halcro, who spent nine months on the campaign trail in 2006 running as an independent opposite Palin and former Gov. Tony Knowles, a Democrat, in the general election

"You really have to have a high level of respect for Gov. Palin in the sense that she has this real ability to connect with people. And suddenly people don't think about health care, they don't think about the economy, they don't think about whatever else, education," said Halcro, a self-described wonk. "It's not about the policy. It's about the person."

Palin always saw that, he said.

"It'll be interesting to see if that recipe works on the national stage," Halcro said.

this part is just scary.

Former House Speaker Gail Phillips, a Republican political leader who has clashed with Palin in the past, was shocked when she heard the news Friday morning with her husband, Walt.

"I said to Walt, 'This can't be happening, because his advance team didn't come to Alaska to check her out," Phillips said.

Phillips has been active in the Ted Stevens re-election steering committee and remains in close touch with Sen. Lisa Murkowski and other party leaders, and she said nobody had heard anything about McCain's people doing research on his prospective running mate.

"We're not a very big state. People I talk to would have heard something."

Local political radio hosts:

Few wanted to talk about anything else on talk radio Friday. Conservative host Rick Rydell said there are some benefits to the state, but it's a gamble for McCain to pick an unknown with what he considered "questionable vetting."

"It seems almost like a Hail Mary pass at the end of a football game," Rydell said in an interview after his show Friday.

Rydell said McCain has destroyed his argument about Barack Obama's lack of experience.

But another local talk radio host, Eddie Burke, enthused on the air that he was "overwhelmingly excited" by the selection. "Alaskans will now have a chance to have somebody talking about resources, our undeveloped resources," Burke said.

Burke said McCain's vice presidential pick has already captured the nation's attention. That is what people are talking about, he said -- not Barack Obama's acceptance speech.

McCain's choice puts Wasilla in spotlight: Politics | adn.com

The town she was mayor of until recently:

"This is a momentous event," said Palmer city councilman Michael Chmielewski. "This is Alaska on the national stage -- the international stage. This is just about as big as it gets."

"It's a great day to be an Alaskan. It's an even better day to be a Wasillan -- and a woman," said Wasilla Mayor Dianne Keller, who replaced Palin on the local city council 12 years ago.

Wasilla city councilwoman Dianne Woodruff, like several others interviewed Friday, said she thought Palin was a brilliant choice for the McCain campaign.

"She's young, she's pretty," and she appeals to the right-wing conservative Christians, something McCain lacks, Woodruff said.

But Woodruff said she's recently doubted some of Palin's decisions, like firing former Alaska Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan, hiring Chuck Kopp to take his place and, after a sexual harassment scandal sullied Kopp's name, paying him a $10,000 severance.

"She really doesn't have the experience for this job," she said.

TL;DR version: Generally speaking, Alaskan Republicans think she'd be good for Alaska, but are unsure of whether she's actually ready to be Vice President. They seem to be more concerned about what can be done for their state than the country overall.

[MrMageo]

Re: Palin announced as Republican VP nominee.

Oh feba I didn't realize you had acctually walked through many streets, or phoned many women all over the nation. I mean first hand evidence of how people feel is a lot better than 2nd and 3rd hand info that you just posted. I mean for one thing the media is divided as the country, you show me one non biased source of media on politics and Ill give you a cookie.
Do you know what a front runner is? A figure head?

It is the representation of something, in this case a political party. McCain represents his party extremely well, and Obama Represents his party extremely well, this is why they were selected by the parties, to be the face of the party. The reason they talk so much about themselves is because they are a personification of what the party stands for. What happens if it is found McCain had a big cocaine addction last year, it would reflect poorley on his party because people see that as a party wide flaw.

That is why they attack each other, and build themselves up, because they are the symbol of the party, if they appear weak, or are weak the party looks weak. (which is why you don't put a chick who crys her way to second place on the ballot.)

It is merely that McCain is such a bad choice (and McCain/Palin simply insane) for the presidency that I cannot do anything but oppose it.

Do you mean, you think McCain is a bad choice. I know there is probably nearly 50% of the population that disagrees with you. (Hell even democrats think he would be a good president if he had a different party.) go ahead and oppose it then, but make sure you oppose it with facts, simply saying oh he is a bad choice because he is sticking up for his parties policies isn't good enough,(ironically the same goes for obama if your a republican supporter). His charecter is top notch, his values are top notch, and his history shows he is a very bi-partisan and real genuine person. He is a great presidential candidate, if he wasn't his name would not be on the ballot.

I think obama's ass needs more kissing feba better get on it, only a couple months till he loses or is assasxxxxted.

[Malacite]

Re: Palin announced as Republican VP nominee.

She's not attracting any HRC supporters. As I already pointed out, quite a lot of women wrote in at how offended they were at the notion (Remember Palin is a lifetime member of the NRA and is pro-life) that she would just to elect a woman.


Also, Mc Cain had only met her once, ever before handing her the nomination. Yeah, I'm not buying the "best suited to take my place" line. He just plain didn't like Romney.



EDIT:

I don't pretend to know what's going on in Canadian politics, and you really ought not pretend that you know how American politics work. The fact is, the person beside the (R) or (D) IS important, here at least. It will have a large influence on many, if not the majority of voters.

For the record our own politics are often dull and stupid, but then we're only about the size of New York... I only pay attention to the Federal Elections and even then, Harper has that assassin's smile that just creeps the hell out of me. The NPD is batshit crazy (good old Taliban jack, comie bastard wants to negotiate with Al-Qeada) no one gives a damn about the Bloc or the Green Party, the Liberals are corrupt as all hell (poor Martin was a good guy but Cretien fucked him over in advance) and the conservatives are lbasically "Republican Lite".


At leas that's how I see it. Oh yeah and since we have a parliamentary (multiple party system) shit tends to take a good while to get done, with election threats thrown about casually to the point where us citizens just become pissed/jaded at them wanting us to go out and vote more often than we'd care to.



David Gergon (sp?) was saying last night that she's never really been in the media on the national stage before and she's going to have to seriously watch herself. One slip up like saying she wants to have creationism taught in schools (idk if this was a rumor but I've been hearing about this lately) and it could be all over for them. I'm confident Biden's gonna tear her a new one at some point.

[MrMageo]

Re: Palin announced as Republican VP nominee.

wrote in to who you? if so please send me copies of the letters. Everything gets put into the news for a reason, and it is not to tell you what is going on, on the whole it is put their to skew your position.

So show me the letters they wrote you, because anything I read in news papers or internet sites, or watch on tv and hear on the radio, is taken with a grain of salt because there is a 90% chance it is not the whole story.

and by 90% I mean more like 100%.

[Feba]

Re: Palin announced as Republican VP nominee.

Oh feba I didn't realize you had acctually walked through many streets, or phoned many women all over the nation.

Oh please. You don't need to go around harassing people to see their opinions. You want statistics? Check out FiveThirtyEight.com: Electoral Projections Done Right: Women View Palin More Skeptically than Men , fresh numbers.

Women, in general, are very wary of this pick, as should they and men as well be.

I mean for one thing the media is divided as the country, you show me one non biased source of media on politics and Ill give you a cookie.

I'm not pointing at the media. I'm pointing at politicians. The direct quotations and opinions of people from her home state, mostly in her party, and who have more than the past couple days to know who she is.

Do you know what a front runner is? A figure head?

They're very different things, for one. The front runner is someone who is ahead (possibly temporarily) in an election, a figurehead is someone who is mostly a symbolic leader with very little real power. The fact that you think they're the same is a pretty good example of how little you know about politics.

Your ideas of how parties and politicians work in America are just plain wrong. Again, I do not pretend to know about Canadian politics. Maybe the Canadian Prime Minister is mostly a figurehead. Maybe the party is placed in front of the person in your political environment. That is not how things work in America, that is not how things work in this election, and that is not how most people are going to look at Palin.

His charecter is top notch, his values are top notch, and his history shows he is a very bi-partisan and real genuine person. He is a great presidential candidate, if he wasn't his name would not be on the ballot.

All of those should be in past tense. Go look at how many times McCain has flipped his opinion on something to fall in line with Bush. Hell, you yourself said so, when you were talking about how McCain has made himself a Republican candidate instead of being himself. "McCain must say things and do things to make it look like he is on the same page as the party.", in your own words he's either lying to every single man and woman who is voting for him, or he is not being true to himself.

McCain is simply a bad choice, and that's not an opinion. Someone who thinks saying "Bomb Iran" is acceptable conduct cannot be trusted as president. Someone who says that he "hates the gooks" and always will cannot be trusted as president. Someone who has changed his opinion to the point where it's hard to know where he really stands cannot be trusted as president. Someone who thinks that someone with so little political experience and knowledge that they don't even know about the job they are supposed to do as VP can be trusted to be second in line to the presidency, with a president who just celebrated his 72nd birthday and who has had cancer cannot be trusted to be president.

How in the world do you think someone who has advocated violence against Iran, insulted and hates some of our biggest trade partners, who you yourself seem to have problems with trusting, and who nominates someone who is entirely not ready to fill the role he is asking is a good choice for president? He has shown a clear lack of judgment in all of the above, in Iran's case he has shown a huge failing in foreign policy and national security, in hating Asians he puts us at huge economical risk, in either lying to his voters or changing his position he becomes hard to trust to make good laws, and in making such a poor choice in VP nomination he puts himself and his lust to win the office in front of the good of the country.

[Icemage]

Re: Palin announced as Republican VP nominee.

Going to say once more and once more only for people to keep their cool in this thread. If I see any more personal attacks, you guys aren't going to be happy with the karmic backlash. Last warning: Attack the content of the post, not the poster.

/moderatorhat


Icemage

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Palin announced as Republican VP nominee.

For what it's worth, I think Palin is a reasonable choice for McCain, but doesn't really address his primary weakness, which is the perception that he is out of touch/too old to be president.

Age shouldn't be the issue, people only make it so because we're so fixated on image.

[Icemage]

Re: Palin announced as Republican VP nominee.

Age shouldn't be the issue, people only make it so because we're so fixated on image.

I agree, but saying so doesn't change what people think.


Icemage

[Feba]

Re: Palin announced as Republican VP nominee.

people only make it so because we're so fixated on image.

Yeah, I agree that's far too large a part of the election. Although this year it seems to be exclusively negative-- McCain is too old, Barack is too young (or black, for some people unfortunately), and so on. Which is better than "he seems like a guy you can sit down and have a beer with" at least, though not by much. Still, as long as people are put ahead of policy, that's going to happen.

[MrMageo]

Re: Palin announced as Republican VP nominee.

They are not (or should not) be voting for the person. I did say McCain is not being truthful of himself. But he needs the votes for the party so he needs to talk the talk.

Back to the media thing here for a minute. Have you searched any information on those who like Palin?, the women who will vote for McCain because of her youthfulness, family values, and conservative nature? Im pretty sure its about dead equal, because people don't often base their votes of the sex of a person, they base it off the party platform, (in the case of HRC is was based on who was the best face for the dems.)

I just don't understand why you consider everyone else wrong because they disagree with you on McCain, or Palin. Just because it is not Obama. Its no different then the media, pumping the same recycled trash over and over.

I don't really care who gets in either way, the USA is FUBAR and it doesn't matter who gets in it will take 8 years to fix this mess (or more according to obama and his 10 year plans). Besides if I was an american, Id be voting Huckabee all the way, he was the best candidate of either party, it is too bad he didn't play to the big wigs like McCain did and sell out his personality.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Palin announced as Republican VP nominee.

The more I think about it, the more McCain's choice of Palin seems both like this and this at the same time.