What are your views on teen pregnancy?

[Ameroth]

Re: What are your views on teen pregnancy?

That's why they're called minors and aren't held to the same decision making standards as adults.

A lot of minors are held to the same standards as adults. If a 16 year old kills someone knowingly, he'll probably get charged and prosecuted as an adult.

I won't disagree that most teenagers don't know what they want, though.

[Tipsy]

Re: What are your views on teen pregnancy?

What have you done Tipsy?

Indeed.

[Ziero]

Re: What are your views on teen pregnancy?

How many people do you really see acting with the maturity they should at their age?

Alot. That happens when you get out in the real world.

A lot of minors are held to the same standards as adults. If a 16 year old kills someone knowingly, he'll probably get charged and prosecuted as an adult.

I won't disagree that most teenagers don't know what they want, though.

There's a difference in being mature enough to make intelligent decisions and being able to tell right and wrong. While there will always be some exceptions to the rule, teenagers are still kids. But even kids should know that hurting people is wrong.

[MrMageo]

Re: What are your views on teen pregnancy?

There is a girl in my home town who threw her baby off of a cliff or in the garbage because she could not deal with it, and she is 28. Age has nothing to do with it. I know many teenage parents who raise their new familys perfectly fine and I know many older parents who do not. Age has nothing to do with it, it is all about the people who are involved in the family.

Sometimes I guess people forget that...

(as for charging someone for sex with a "minor" its BS unless it is rape. Otherwise it is consensual of course american laws are so ass backwards sometimes.)

[WovenDarkness]

Re: What are your views on teen pregnancy?

(as for charging someone for sex with a "minor" its BS unless it is rape. Otherwise it is consensual of course american laws are so ass backwards sometimes.)

When I think of rape, I think of a violent physical assualt where one person forces themselves on another.

Just out of curiosity, where does coercion fit in with reguards to your personal belief?

[MrMageo]

Re: What are your views on teen pregnancy?

How do you find that is my personal beleif? It is law in canada that sex is legal of consensual, in any means. If its rape that is a crime. (which is why I said your american laws are ass backwards sometimes.)

[WovenDarkness]

Re: What are your views on teen pregnancy?

How do you find that is my personal beleif? It is law in canada that sex is legal of consensual, in any means. If its rape that is a crime. (which is why I said your american laws are ass backwards sometimes.)

Actually, I was asking for your personal belief and not assuming anything. I wanted to know if you thought coercion was rape.

[MrMageo]

Re: What are your views on teen pregnancy?

Its iffy to be honest. I am 50/50 on the subject, because if its not forceful then I don't view it as rape. Technically the "target" has the chance to say no, and forcefully avoid it (usually this is when a rape takes place). On the other hand, if it is a woman a court will see it as rape, so being a guy I would say yes it would be rape, but if it happened to a guy then nothing would come of it.

(which is fucking bullshit, since law states you have to have a vagina to be a rape victim)

[Kitalrez]

Re: What are your views on teen pregnancy?

"I believe in making this world safe for our children, but not our children's children, because I don't think children should be having sex." - Jack Handey, Deep Thoughts

I started with this, as this post has the markings of another of my famous long, rambling posts where I just unload on you. "Gee, is it hot in here? And why is it so windy?" For those of you who decide to stick it out, thanks. For the rest of you, I understand.

When I think of rape, I think of a violent physical assault where one person forces themselves on another.

Just out of curiosity, where does coercion fit in with regards to your personal belief?

[fixed your spelling]

Statutory is a crime for a reason. I hate saying this, but if you can't see the reason yet, wait a few years. It sounds like a total cop out, yeah, but it's sadly true. Here's the deal:

1. I am a Mason and single.
2. Masonic society has special organizations for children, DeMolay for boys and Job's Daughters and/or Rainbow Girls for girls. (Here in Utah, it's just the Jobbies).
3. The Jobbies in my state want my participation in their organization. There are certain jobs in a Bethel that only a Master Mason can do. Given that there are around 20 Bethels or so, and a limited number of MMs free on their meeting nights/mornings, a single MM like me is hot property. Unlike many of the other Masons, my lack of a family gives me free time to spend with their organization. It would be ridiculously simple for me to become a Bethel's advisor. They have to have an advisor in order to exist, and that advisor has to be an MM.
4. Becoming that advisor would give me certain powers and influence over their Bethel. (No, not occult "powers", the ability to get them out of trouble in the organization, etc).
5. Even without that though, I have an amazing advantage over every last one of these girls... experience.

I'm not blowing smoke out of my ass here, it's ridiculously simple to pick up an underage girl. If you don't know how to do this by now, you're probably dating wrong. Think about what you say to your dates now, it probably has changed over time. I submit that you have locked away in your repetoir every last skill and line you need to pick up a woman younger than you. You may not realize it yet, but it's there. Think about a teenage girl, what does she want to hear? You already know. You know what she likes, what she's afraid of, and what will make her like you. You know this because you've had to walk your own girlfriends through these minefields, and you've broken up with them over some of these things and puzzled through the "whys". You also have a huge advantage in that you've been places. You probably live on your own. You have a steady job. You own a car. You are everything that every boy she ever dated is lacking. If I can get an 19 year old girl into my car, I can probably sleep with her. I'm 30, I suspect until I actually have grey hair, this probably isn't going to change. That's a huge advantage over someone.

Here's where it becomes scary. I can talk underaged girls into bed. I don't, but it's not something I can't do. If I can't talk one particular girl into sleeping with me, there's a dozen like her I can. That's experience. What matters in Statutory cases though is the fact that I have this huge advantage. Underaged girls don't realize I have this. They never see it coming. I can pick them up, use them, and dump them to move right on to the next one. That's the whole point behind Statutory. It isn't that you aren't willing to sleep with someone right here, right now. It's 10 years down the road when you finally see how you got suckered in. Maybe I'm off in a different state, maybe I gave you a false name, maybe you're having my kid, maybe I even gave you some kind of STD. (Ok, not me, per se, but someone with an actual STD to give). What if you look back on this and this was the dumbest mistake you ever made? You don't realize it now, but a few years down the road... yeah. It's not that I force you into anything, or assault you, it's that I have this invisible power you don't even begin to realize yet. That's the point.

When we see a female teacher who had sex with her 16 year old student, the off the cuff response from guys is usually "Fuck YEAH!" It's awesome. But it's not awesome, any more than it'd be awesome if that was a male teacher and a female student. This teacher abused their power. It's a power granted only by a few years experience, but it's still an advantage the student lacks. Maybe you don't see it yet, but it's still there. It's annoying when you find out, kinda like how you're driving your Junior year of college, dodging freshmen, and realize that you watched "Blood on the Highway" for a reason. Makes you want to go back in time and punch all your teachers for being right. "Damn it, you had a really good point there! POW!" Yeah, the health class STD videos are also like that. I've actually had a chlamydia conversation with a 16 yr old girl. Sucks to be her... and sterile.



So, I guess this would be a good time to wander back on topic....

The main reason I don't like teen pregnancy is that I grew up watching it. I have a "normal" family. A lot of my classmates, though, were kids of single parents who had them in their teens. We point out how cool it is that Barak Obama is the child of a single mom for a reason. It is really cool. It's really cool because he's one of the fraction of the fraction who actually get to live out their dreams. The barest minimum for whom it's actually true that they can become an astronaut, a senator, even president. For most of them, they got stuck. Either they were too poor to really have a chance, they had siblings at home to take care of and couldn't concentrate on the schoolwork so they could succeed, or they dropped out to help Mom with her job and make sure the next guys in line had a shot at what they didn't. I didn't see any of these people at my 10 yr HS reunion. They were amazing, bright, outgoing, wonderful people. I'm afraid to find out where they ended up.

When I was in the Marines, many of my boot camp buddies were with GFs. They'd had the same ones since HS. As we graduated, I watched some of them get married, lots of them were "shotgun weddings". They kinda vanished. We were all in the reserves, so it wasn't the stress of deployment. I got to watch grown people self destruct in front of me. I'm not still friends with any of them. My best friend got married at 19, his GF was only a year younger and got pregnant. They had a wonderful son. I watched them fight, I watched her gradually become so pissed off at him that none of his friends could come over. I watched him struggle with two jobs and reserve duty to keep them in a studio apt. I watched that couple start down the road to ruin that eventually consumed them. They're divorced now, no idea the details, and I hope never to learn. Bright kids though, children of professionals, his dad was a Psychologist. Sometimes I look back and wonder what happened. Sadly, they all ended up like that.

Back in the 30's and 40's, our grandparents' generation, if a teen girl got pregnant, she vanished. They'd ship her off to the country to have the kid away from other people. She'd come back later, everyone would be told she was "visiting family". Kid would be raised by a sibling, an aunt, a cousin, or some other relative who was stable and situated. Raised AS THEIR KID. You grew up never knowing you were anything different than the child of a well adjusted couple. Notable exceptions existed, but for a lot of kids, life was "normal". You had two parents, a stable home life, and a normal childhood. Later, you were free to go off to Berkeley, prance around naked to the Beatles, smoke pot til your eyes bled, and protest dihydrogen monoxide and its "horrible contamination of damn near everything". That's the thing, though, you had a chance. You could choose to rebel against everything. You had options.

If you grow up the child of single parents now, do you really have options? Can you say with any certainty that you will go to college? That you'll get and stay married? That you can really be anything you want in life? From what I've seen, I don't think you can. It really freaks me out to think that people in the 30s and 40s may have actually had a good idea. Sometimes I feel ashamed for thinking it.

[MrMageo]

Re: What are your views on teen pregnancy?

Well part of the blame can be put into school systems for cutting out proper sex education.

but...

Do you know what I like about high school girls... I get older and they stay the same age.

All joking aside. If a 16 year old guy or girl can not make the decision to say no, or I am going to use a condom (or other device) than no they should not be having sex. It is the responsibility of both parties (or more in some cases) to ensure that it is consensual and protected (unless otherwise discussed). I do not hold sympathy for "kids" who get knocked up, or have sex with older people and get dropped 9/10 times it is consensual.

If a 16 year old can make the decision to which college he/she wants to strive for, which career they want to start planning for then they can make the decision to have sex or not, with anyone they feel comfortable with.

I grew up with a single parent. I am 25, I have a 7 year old daughter, and a wife, I own my own house (bought at age 18 paid in full at 25) I have 2 college degrees 1 in political science and one in mathematical theory (probability,choas theory etc), and am currently attending school for electrical technology.

My mother raised me from the age of 5 alone on under 30K/year I also have 3 brothers aged 20 and 13 (I pretty well raised the 13 year old myself).

I marketed myself and got a job in electronics/telecommunications, I get paid while I go to school, I earn 35,000 a year while in school and 45,000 when Im not in school.

I chose one night to not use a condom, my wife agreed we now have a kid, a very smart kid. Do I regret it, not at all, all it meant is I had to grow up a little sooner than my friends. But none of my friends own their own house, or have 2 college degrees and a loving family.

So I would say yes I have options, I make them for myself everyday, I have done college 3 times in 5 years, I am married for 7 years, I am doing what I want to in life, so you have not seen enough to make a blanket assumption on what can and can not be done. I am better off than most of those single parents, I am better of than most married couples, I am only 25, married, with a child, and I don't regret a minute of my life.

[WovenDarkness]

Re: What are your views on teen pregnancy?

I started with this, as this post has the markings of another of my famous long, rambling posts where I just unload on you. "Gee, is it hot in here? And why is it so windy?" For those of you who decide to stick it out, thanks. For the rest of you, I understand.


[fixed your spelling]

1)Long winded would be an understatement. I mean that in a friendly way.

2)Thanks.

And to Mr. Mageo, you're a very driven individual. Congrats on your life as you sound like your doing well. Did you find the younger years fairly tough w/o a higher education? Financially speaking of course.

[MrMageo]

Re: What are your views on teen pregnancy?

Well my wife got prego after I got through my political science course. So I had time to finish that out. We moved to Alberta when I was done and I got a sogning bonus of 50K to stay with the company for 10 years. so I used it as a down payment on a house. Worked for a year and welcomed my baby into the world.

I was asked to go back to school by my company in math, and electrical so I am just about done doing that.

The early years were a bit rough but the job I got was awesome 25$/hr at 18 is pretty nice. I didn't party much for obvious reasons, but occaisionally had that social life. When the baby came it got harder, not so much money wise but taking care of a kid is tough (luckily I had orior experience from my little brother I pretty well raised). Next thing I know its 7 years later I am almost done school for electrical I make 30$ an hour have 3 years left on my contract, and own a house. I don't really know how it happened to be honest, its just been a blur, of work family and such. Had to do some bad stuff to make ends meet one month earlier this winter (but thats because I bought my little girl a $3000 college fund which sees about @ 200 a month go into it now) check feba's signiture if you want (basically traded my xbox for a bag of drugs and sold the drugs to make ends meet after the big purchase bad decision but you gotta do what you gotta do. I think feba thinks I used it >.>)

But ya its been a wild ride, and to be honest, I do not regret it. we chose to have a child, never thought it would lead me to owning a house before my mom, living on the otherside of the country, having a great education, and a great job, but then again its all how you take it. I took it positively and it is positive for me so that would be my advice.

(Thanks for the kind remarks woven it means alot)

[Tipsy]

Re: What are your views on teen pregnancy?

I regards to this post (I didn't want to quote the whole thing, for scrolling reasons.):

"I believe in making this world safe for our children, but not our children's children, because I don't think children should be having sex." - Jack Handey, Deep Thoughts

I started with this, as this post has the markings of another of my famous long, rambling posts where I just unload on you. "Gee, is it hot in here? And why is it so windy?" For those of you who decide to stick it out, thanks. For the rest of you, I understand.

So in your views, (which are logical and understandable as a definition for statutory rape), if the guy had no car, no job, and lived with his parents, shouldn't he be exempt from that law?

[DieselBoy09]

Re: What are your views on teen pregnancy?

No one is really that on the ball at 16 and after that we're not on the ball all the time either. I feel bad for those that got pregnant young, and I do feel it was a mistake, but its a mistake they have to live with, not one we have to judge. Yes, yes, if they fail miserably and their responsibility gets passed on to us, the others in society, then there is some room to make a comment, but if they struggle for the rest of their lives and do not pass that burden to the rest of us then I feel its their life, not mine.
(p.s. whether you like it or not, they're breeding, it is their genetic codes that will carry over for certain in to the next generation and continue to propagate. Any one think that maybe its a form of natural selection or evolutionary theory? Humans after all follow the same basic rules as other species)

Dumb Kids Poop Orange Colored Fecal Grass Stains!
Dichotomous key~

[TheGrandMom]

Re: What are your views on teen pregnancy?

Wow....just wow.....I see so much bullshit in this thread that I nearly couldn't wade through it all. Before speaking on subjects, try living them. I have.

A girl who is in her formative years physically and emotionally usually does not make the best of choices. Predators know this and they play on these things. Compliment her on her body because she's insecure and unsure of her "womanly" figure. Commiserate with her on the trials and tribulations of people not understanding her and her needs. Add a dose of hugs and holding her her hand now and then to seal the deal. Now stir and wait and soon you'll be able to get in her pants. But as long as she consents this isn't rape. F**K YOU!

Teenage motherhood....Do you know what its like to give up your life for a child? To endure the stares when you are young and pregnant from ignorant people that look down their nose at you? How about the whispers of your own family and friends and the pity in their eyes? How about when it turns to anger when you tell them you are keeping the child? How your parents/family members make you walk behind them and pretend you aren't theres as soon as you start showing? Or when your mother gives you a ring to wear on your finger to make it look like your married so she's not embarassed? How about the fear of your changing body but hardly anyone to talk to because your friends don't understand and your family would rather ignore it? Oh...gee thats only the beginning of the fun and I'm just skimming on the surface of the humiliation, guilt, shame, fear, and dozens of other nasty emotions you are put through on a daily basis.

Let's move on to after the child is born....Not realizing the day in and day out care of the child is exhausting is a huge wake up call. When the baby decides he/she wants to be fed every 2 hours. When they get colic and scream for hours at a time. When the only way they'll sleep is if you rock or walk them. When slowly but surely your friends stop calling or coming by because you never have time for them. When standing in line at the checkout you realize that even buying a pack of gum is a huge purchase that you might not be able to afford. When seeing a rummage/garage sale is the highlight of your day because your baby needs clothes and you might actually be able to get some as long as they don't cost more than the $10 you have to sacrifice from saving to finally get out and see a movie with. And again....not even scratching the surface on the issue.

How about working 3 jobs in order to pay for the rent, food, utilities, but most of all the babysitter (which don't come cheap)? Entertainment is going to Blockbuster and renting a movie and popping microwave popcorn and thats HUGE treat....even more so if the baby actually stays asleep for the entire movie. By now 90% of all your old friends have taken a hike and making new friends is hard because most of them are older and married and only feel pity for you. How about how exhausted you feel working for hours on end and would love to come home and put your feet up for 5 minutes but that doesn't work into the baby's schedule. So you come home, put on your mommy face and start doing dishes, feeding the baby, changing the baby, bathing the baby, cleaning the house, doing the laundry, and hopefully getting a few hours rest before you have to get up and do it all again. You don't get out, you are stuck in a dead end job or trying to claw your way out by juggling school on the weekends too, you have little to no friends along with little to no money, every day holds a new heaping helping of stress to your life, and unless you are incredibly lucky, you'll be stuck in this loop for the next 18 years. Oh and good luck planning for your child's college future when you are lucky to be able to buy him/her a Christmas present every year.

This is just a small portion of the life of a single mother. The emotions, the stress, the overwhelming oppression of it is beyond your imagination until you live it. Oh yes, there are .0005% that luckily get out of the loop and are able to give their children a more fulfilling life. After some time, I got lucky........but I never forgot the "before". Every so often a teen mother case comes my way and after the first sit down I'll admit to locking my door and having a good cry. My heart goes out to each and every one, even though I'm supposed to keep my emotions out of it. It's hard...its very hard...because once you've lived it, you never forget.