What are your views on teen pregnancy?

[DieselBoy09]

Re: What are your views on teen pregnancy?

I don't like that TheGrandMom's devastation response followed my reply. . I swear, I didn't do it.

[Feba]

Re: What are your views on teen pregnancy?

TGM, when exactly does someone become immune to emotions when sex is involved? Ignoring the other stuff, the way you talk about it it seems like you think no one should ever have sex, to be sure that nobody is ever taken advantage of.

[Effedup]

Re: What are your views on teen pregnancy?

On the other hand, if it is a woman a court will see it as rape, so being a guy I would say yes it would be rape, but if it happened to a guy then nothing would come of it.

You know, I've actually got a really fucked up story that totally illustrates that fact. An ex-coworker of mine (we'll call him A*) was sexually assaulted by another ex-coworker of mine (whom we'll call J*). Long story short, A*was at a party at J*'s house (a place he rented with a few other friends and ex-coworkers), and there was copious amounts of alcohol involved. J* is gay, and it was a pretty well known fact around our workplace that he had a thing for the younger, emo-type guys...his entire department was males between the ages of 17-21 with the same common "look" about them. No one really thought much of it; it may not be right, but it certainly wouldn't be the first time a supervisor surrounded himself with "eye-candy", but the "eye-candy" did their jobs, and there was never any type of sexual harassment or anything that we heard of, so things carried on as usual.

Anyways, our employer went out of business, and as we have always been a pretty close-knit group; most of us still maintain contact and hang out with each other often. So anyways, A* is at this party at J*'s place, and A* got pretty hammered, so J* tells him to go ahead and pass out on his couch.

The next morning, A* wakes up with his pants around his ankles, with J* sleeping with his head in A*'s lap. A* was understandably freaked out, and wakes up J* when he jumps up. J* smiles, says something about A*'s "size", and A* loses it, crying hysterically, and calls the cops. I mean, to me this is a cut and dry case of sexual assault, but the story continues...

Anyways, the cops get there and it's a big joke to them, they're laughing to themselves about it while taking statements, asking A* if he's sure he's not gay (as if that had anything to do with an assault), and why he's making such a big deal about it, pretty much advising him that he should just drop it and "stay away from J* in the future". A*'s pretty traumatized and upset at this point, but the responding officers, despite what A* said, write off the entire situation, and leave, no arrest, no nothing. The cops actually got pissy with A* when he said he wanted to press charges, and literally laughed at him when he said he wanted to go to the hospital to have a rape-kit done.

Luckily, A* didn't drop it, he got the rape-kit and STD checks done (which he had to pay for out of pocket since it wasn't ordered by the courts and/or police), and he contacted a lawyer. After over a week of the lawyer arguing with the police, they finally agree to open up an investigation in the matter...and after the investigation, big surpise, they admit that there was wrong-doing on J*'s part, and issue an arrest warrant, which is weeks too late, as J* is already long gone to parts unknown. A* is very traumatized by this, he's going to therapy multiple days a week, but as with any situation like this, it's obviously going to be a while until he's ok again. He's become moody and depressed, his grades in college are slipping a little...as a good friend, it's enough to make ME wanna go find J* and beat the shit out of him...A* is a good kid, and this one event, and the lack of action by the police that he had to fight through (and the incredulous way the police treated him as a man claiming rape), has totally changed him, and it makes me sad to think that this kid, who used to be so happy and full of life, is going to be saddled with all this emotional shit for years to come, if not the rest of his life.

The bottom line is, if A* would have been female there would have been no question about it, the second "rape" was even a possibility it would have been handled appropriately; J* would have been arrested IMMEDIATELY, A* would have been sent to the hospital and had the rape-kit done immediately, and the weeks of investigation into the matter would have been done in about 3 days as they processed the kit. But because it was 2 males involved, it was a big fucking joke to the P.D. until someone forced the issue. The lawsuit is in it's early stages now, but I'm hoping that something actually comes of this, because what A* desperately needs here is some sense of closure to the whole matter so he can move on with his life. We're here supporting him as much as he needs, providing shoulders for him to cry on...but he's got a long road ahead of him. (can you even imagine what it must have been like to call 911 and have the cops fucking LAUGH at you after you've been sexually assaulted? I sure as hell can't...)

Anyways, that's the story, and it pisses me off how much of a double-standard there is when it comes to things like this. Rape isn't strictly a "Male-Female" phenomenon, and men can be raped, too...there needs to be a standard procedure with regards to this, regardless of the sex of the parties involved, but until society get's past the whole "men can't be raped" thing, it's never going to change. I shudder to think of how many sexual predators get a pass because they just happened to assault a guy...

[TheGrandMom]

Re: What are your views on teen pregnancy?

*deleted because I refuse to debate with ignorance*

[Feba]

Re: What are your views on teen pregnancy?

I'm not trying to start an argument, TGM, I'm genuinely curious. You can't complain about ignorance if you aren't willing to enlighten people when they ask.

[Vyuru]

Re: What are your views on teen pregnancy?

/points towards TGM

We need a multi thanks button for some posts.

[Kitalrez]

Re: What are your views on teen pregnancy?

So in your views, (which are logical and understandable as a definition for statutory rape), if the guy had no car, no job, and lived with his parents, shouldn't he be exempt from that law?

No, but then your example is incomplete. Remember what I said was the most important part of my reasoning... (damn near took forever explaining it...), experience. To complete your example, you need a guy who's tabula rasa. This guy can't have dated at all prior to age 30. I guess to really put that into perspective, you have to somehow stop all contact with women past age 18. You need a guy who doesn't know anything about teenage girls that hasn't been learned directly and can't have been modified by learning other things about himself or others. Like that we're all going to die someday, or that money doesn't buy happiness. Any of the myriad of supposedly "wise" maxims that sound stupid, untrue or obvious now, but start making horrible sense later. I guess you'd almost need someone who was comatose from 18 to about 30, and just came out of it. Presumably for some reason that you don't want to tell others about, or that the press wouldn't normally cover.


On the other hand, this ends up creating other situations, too. What if the guy was in a monastery? What if he was stranded on an island for years? I may have just removed the mens rea or mental capacity/intent necessary for trying him for statutory, but I could've just given our hypothetical rapist a whole host of other good advantages. Hard to beat that coma story if it gets used as an opening conversation. Girl already feels sorry for you, wants to be around you to "help"...

This all does beg another question though: If you're 30, male, have no job, no car, live with parents, don't date, etc... exactly what woman in her right mind wants to go out with you?

[Feba]

Re: What are your views on teen pregnancy?

Kitalrez, I'll ask you the same question I ask TGM (and anyone else who wants to state that teenagers are 'vulnerable'): When do people stop being vulnerable to emotional manipulation and generally just womanizers, assholes, and liars in general?

[MrMageo]

Re: What are your views on teen pregnancy?

I would also like to know that answer.

[Tipsy]

Re: What are your views on teen pregnancy?

This all does beg another question though: If you're 30, male, have no job, no car, live with parents, don't date, etc... exactly what woman in her right mind wants to go out with you?

Maybe he has really cool jeans on?


On a serious note: Do you agree? No job, no car, live with parents, stranded on and island perhaps? Sheltered to the extreme? Shouldn't it be fightable? Statutory should be judged upon your eligability of being "dateable." Not your age, I mean I know plenty of 18 years old without a car, live with parents, no job.. no people skills at all, why should they be charged? Simply because they're 18? I find that rather bias..

[MrMageo]

Re: What are your views on teen pregnancy?

I agree tipsy but we live in a fucked up world where like it or not women are placed on a magical pedestal. Anything they say is taken before a man. Hell look at divorce, If my wife and I divorce guess what I am liable to get, well guess what she will get. My house, my kid, my car, half my check. Is that fair? I lose everything I worked for, including my family because a women says I should.

I think things need to be brought up to par, women have been bitching for years upon years about equal rights. But guess what, If I married a woman, moved into her house and we had a kid guess what, I would still get to pay child support, lose a house, and anything else I bought while together. (edit: and the kid)

The vagina is placed upon a pedestal in our society and it should not be that way.

[Mandarain]

Re: What are your views on teen pregnancy?

Wow I missed a lot... I don't even know how to catch up at this point...

[TheGrandMom]

Re: What are your views on teen pregnancy?

I agree tipsy but we live in a fucked up world where like it or not women are placed on a magical pedestal. Anything they say is taken before a man. Hell look at divorce, If my wife and I divorce guess what I am liable to get, well guess what she will get. My house, my kid, my car, half my check. Is that fair? I lose everything I worked for, including my family because a women says I should.

I think things need to be brought up to par, women have been bitching for years upon years about equal rights. But guess what, If I married a woman, moved into her house and we had a kid guess what, I would still get to pay child support, lose a house, and anything else I bought while together. (edit: and the kid)

The vagina is placed upon a pedestal in our society and it should not be that way.

In the U.S. property is split 1/2 to each. Thats fair. Custody of the children is mutually agreed upon and 90% of the time the guy doesn't want the headache of rearing the children and thats why they get to pay child support. Surprise surprise if the man fights for custody and gets it then the woman pays child support. Alimony is hard to get for either side so it is usually only seen in rare cases or unless you are rich. As to ownership of a house, whoever gets placement of the minor children gets the house........temporarily. Once the children are 18, the house is sold and money is divided 50/50. Why should the children suffer and be torn out of the home they know and love (and possibly the school district as well) because their parents are asshats? I don't see what is so unfair about that. That child is 1/2 yours and you should be responsible for it as will the custodial parent. You don't want that responsibility you can give up your parental rights....but you probably still won't get 1/2 the house until the child is 18.

Here let me give you the woman's perspective cause I've been there and done that. I was used to a certain level of living, as were my children, when my husband filed for a divorce. At the time, we didn't own a home so I had to move out of our apartment because I couldn't afford it. I was a secretary at the time so at least I had regular hours but not enough pay. We moved into a cramped 2 bedroom in a different district so my kids couldn't attend their own schools and were ripped away from their friends. Who dealt with the aftermath? Me. Who dealt with the stress of scrapping together enough money to pay the bills, the babysitter (work hours only), finding enough money for decent food (though nothing like what we used to eat), and son on? That would be me. What was my husband's stress......worrying where the kids were going to sleep in his 1 bedroom when they came to visit. He had plenty of money for rent, food, etc because he only had to worry about himself. He didn't have the stress of dealing with emotionally distraught children, not having enough of anything to get by, and many other wonderful things. He could go out anytime he wanted with his friends and do whatever he wanted because he only had resonsibilities on the weekends when he took his kids. Ya guys think they get financially fucked when they get divorced but its better than getting gang banged 24/7 when you are a divorced mom. (FYI, the end of the story was that after a few years of seperation, he decided he wanted to come back.)

"Weitzman found that the standard of living for divorced women and their children declined ... . Other studies, while disputing Weitzman's number as too large, have found similar declines. One such study, conducted by Saul Hoffman and Greg Duncan, measured a decline of 30 percent for divorced women during the first year after divorce."

"Divorce leaves both partners in a marriage financially worse off, but women
are likely to experience the biggest fall in disposable income, according to a new study."

"According to federal statistics, 22% of divorced female retirees live in poverty vs. 18% of widows and 20% of women who never married."

"Based on a ten year study of the no-fault divorce law, first instituted in California and used in some form nationwide in the 1970s, this disproves the law's theory that equal treatment of husband and wife leads to amicable and equitable economic settlements. Instead, the new gender-equal laws have created a new poor -- mothers with minor children and older homemakers lacking job skills. Under the old law, wives were usually awarded the family home and granted alimony and child support, but now they are expected to be self supporting, no matter what their background. These young mothers and older women experience a 73% decline in their standard of living (many have to sell their homes) while their husbands average a 42% increase in theirs. 60% children will experience disruption in their parents' marriage and face financial hardship before reaching 18 because 90% of all custodial parents are women, yet 60-80% of all fathers defy court orders to pay child support."

Women (and children) in the U.S. get the shaft in divorces the majority of the time. The only exceptions are the rich and the well educated.....and that accounts for a very small percentage of the married female population in the U.S.

[MrMageo]

Re: What are your views on teen pregnancy?

I would like to refer you to the man vs gold digger. Their are many women out there who marry with nothing nothing and leave with everything.

A 50/50 split where the man loses the house, the car and the majority of other things (even in a childish relationship) is a crock. Work up some tears, tell a sob story, and get what you want, the philosophical mindset of the gold digger.

Irconically, I just heard something interesting on the news today, Palins 17 year old daughter is knocked up. I can't wait for the media to take this on a wild ride, only to find a few months from now it was a planned pregnancy, but hey teenagers can't make their own decisions in this world I guess, Im glad my planned child is doing great, Im glad my planned teenage marriage family and life is doing great, but I suppose I must be a special case, I mean all teens who may or may not have planned pregnancies and family's could possibly be as good as me right.

[711rocks]

Re: What are your views on teen pregnancy?

the girl across the street that is 18 is like 7 months preggers
her baby shower is coming up
she was my best friend when we were little
but i never see her around now
and havent talked to her since this happened
what do i say
do you say congrats for this type of thing?