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Re: Olympics 1st thoughts
So, was this Epee or Foil? There are four different schools that fall under the category of Fencing. They are Epee, Foil, Saber, and Rapier. Since there was no swinging, what you saw was either Epee or Foil.
FYI, Saber and Rapier blades are actually heavy enough that you can seriously hurt someone if you swing in an uncontrolled manner. Rapier is heavy enough that they actually prohibit swinging, and you can only make some kind of funky drawing cut instead of a swing.
We don't get the fencing where I'm at, they just don't show it, so it's possible that I'm wrong, but then I have actually having competed in fencing matches and know what I'm talking about so I'm highly doubtfull.
What you saw them wearing was not chainmail. I forget what they call it, but it's a special bit of gear that is worn over the protective gear. It's a shirt with metal strands running through it. The electronic foil requires hitting metal in order to activate and register a hit on target.
In fencing, the target areas are:
Foil: Front of the upper torso and top/back of the shoulders. The head, arms, back, and lower body are not counted.
Epee: Entire body is target.
Saber: Entire upper body is target, lower body is not counted.
Rapier: Unknown, I never got to try it. I believe it is the upper body though, but I could be wrong.
Since it was a full body covering, the you were most likely watching an Epee match, which is probably as close to a real match as you will see. While swings work, they take too long and a good fencer will be able to exploit it. Besides, rapiers aren't built for a serious swing, they're more for poking and light slashing, you want something that is swordrapier strong or stronger before you could get in a real swing. Of course, if you try to get in a real swing in a real match, then you're also most likely dead, so the point is rather moot.
It would be stupid to use chainmail in electronic fencing because there is far too much danger of the tip of the blade getting caught in the links, breaking, and penetrating said links. There is nothing stopping the blade from hitting your heart if it goes in under the armpit. While fencers do wear plenty of protection, especially there with a plastron, the risk is still there.
Now you ask, why the big wall 'o text?
Because all of this equipment is needed for this level of fencing. The fencers are moving too fast to be followed by eye alone. Rules of right-of-way apply, and when you get into something that is parry-riposte-parry-coupe-parry-beat-bind and so on, all in the space of about 4-6 seconds, not counting footwork and if these were low/high attacks, all while trying to follow the right of way rules and know who hit who first and who has right of way, when we are talking at the really skilled levels, it is impossible for a judge to follow everything, hence the metallic body covering, electronic foils, and the little box with the colored lights on it. This allows the judge to be able to focus on who has the right of way and allows him to focus on the box and which light was lighted, whose was lighted first, etc, and make a judgement about who scored.
Normal fencing bouts will have a judge, and four watchers, two per fencer. The watchers watch for who hits who, and raises their hand when a hit was made, the judge watches for who has right of way and makes his judgement accordingly. Even this can have problems for the lower level bouts. And no one wanted to judge, or be a watcher, when Doug and Travis went at it. They were too good, too fast, and too damn tricky for many of us to be able to pick up when they made a touch. Over half the time they would acknowledge that the other had made a hit that we, the watchers, or the judge, hadn't even seen.
And now, as for the sword fights in movies, they are utterly unrealistic. Frankly these movie fighters, they don't deserve the name fencer, have such poor balance and form that I wouldn't give them 10 seconds against an intermediate fencer.
I would laugh myself silly if they went against someone like Doug or Travis from my old fencing club, let alone go against some of the olympic fencers that I have watched and fenced against, and got my ass kicked soundly by too.
Also, you most likely missed the parries because they are going to be small, fast, and very controlled movements. The big sweeping parries of the movies are about as dumb as the big sweeping sword swings of the movies. There are a couple of attacks as well that can be sometimes be used instead of a parry.
Frankly it's the movie sword fighting that's be dumbed down to absurdity, not the actual fencing. You just don't know what you're watching because if you did, you would not have said it then.
1) Don't need to sharpen the foils in order to cause serious injury, or even to kill someone with. All you have to do is take off the rubber tip and you have yourself a nice handy instrument of death. And that's just with a foil, the lightest blade of them all.
This is going to be one of the few times where I say if you have not done something, then do not go around and telling people how it should be "fixed"
This is also where I point out how many people could be killed if you even just took off the mask, not to mention all the other protective gear.
2) By your comment, I could respond with:
Olympic archery is boring as all heck. I vote that we now have two archers standing opposite each other, first to hit the other person wins.
On a more serious note, take off the damn high tech fancy gadgetry from the bows. This is archery dammit. And yes I do fall under the category of archers who think that bow sights, those funky special grips and all that have no place in archery.
now a non equestrian event that needs some tweaks. Fencing what id the point of this. this event is not fencing, its the milton bradley game "Operation" combined with tag. 2 people in full chain armor from head to toe, wired with electronics. if you get touched it lights up a light for a score. if you didnt watch this event you wont understand how dumbed down this is. they dont do it like in the movies where they are both swinging and blocking, attacking and parrying, no they stand ona narrow carpet and try to swat at each other and not get hit at same time.
FYI, Saber and Rapier blades are actually heavy enough that you can seriously hurt someone if you swing in an uncontrolled manner. Rapier is heavy enough that they actually prohibit swinging, and you can only make some kind of funky drawing cut instead of a swing.
We don't get the fencing where I'm at, they just don't show it, so it's possible that I'm wrong, but then I have actually having competed in fencing matches and know what I'm talking about so I'm highly doubtfull.
What you saw them wearing was not chainmail. I forget what they call it, but it's a special bit of gear that is worn over the protective gear. It's a shirt with metal strands running through it. The electronic foil requires hitting metal in order to activate and register a hit on target.
In fencing, the target areas are:
Foil: Front of the upper torso and top/back of the shoulders. The head, arms, back, and lower body are not counted.
Epee: Entire body is target.
Saber: Entire upper body is target, lower body is not counted.
Rapier: Unknown, I never got to try it. I believe it is the upper body though, but I could be wrong.
Since it was a full body covering, the you were most likely watching an Epee match, which is probably as close to a real match as you will see. While swings work, they take too long and a good fencer will be able to exploit it. Besides, rapiers aren't built for a serious swing, they're more for poking and light slashing, you want something that is swordrapier strong or stronger before you could get in a real swing. Of course, if you try to get in a real swing in a real match, then you're also most likely dead, so the point is rather moot.
It would be stupid to use chainmail in electronic fencing because there is far too much danger of the tip of the blade getting caught in the links, breaking, and penetrating said links. There is nothing stopping the blade from hitting your heart if it goes in under the armpit. While fencers do wear plenty of protection, especially there with a plastron, the risk is still there.
Now you ask, why the big wall 'o text?
Because all of this equipment is needed for this level of fencing. The fencers are moving too fast to be followed by eye alone. Rules of right-of-way apply, and when you get into something that is parry-riposte-parry-coupe-parry-beat-bind and so on, all in the space of about 4-6 seconds, not counting footwork and if these were low/high attacks, all while trying to follow the right of way rules and know who hit who first and who has right of way, when we are talking at the really skilled levels, it is impossible for a judge to follow everything, hence the metallic body covering, electronic foils, and the little box with the colored lights on it. This allows the judge to be able to focus on who has the right of way and allows him to focus on the box and which light was lighted, whose was lighted first, etc, and make a judgement about who scored.
Normal fencing bouts will have a judge, and four watchers, two per fencer. The watchers watch for who hits who, and raises their hand when a hit was made, the judge watches for who has right of way and makes his judgement accordingly. Even this can have problems for the lower level bouts. And no one wanted to judge, or be a watcher, when Doug and Travis went at it. They were too good, too fast, and too damn tricky for many of us to be able to pick up when they made a touch. Over half the time they would acknowledge that the other had made a hit that we, the watchers, or the judge, hadn't even seen.
And now, as for the sword fights in movies, they are utterly unrealistic. Frankly these movie fighters, they don't deserve the name fencer, have such poor balance and form that I wouldn't give them 10 seconds against an intermediate fencer.
I would laugh myself silly if they went against someone like Doug or Travis from my old fencing club, let alone go against some of the olympic fencers that I have watched and fenced against, and got my ass kicked soundly by too.
Also, you most likely missed the parries because they are going to be small, fast, and very controlled movements. The big sweeping parries of the movies are about as dumb as the big sweeping sword swings of the movies. There are a couple of attacks as well that can be sometimes be used instead of a parry.
Frankly it's the movie sword fighting that's be dumbed down to absurdity, not the actual fencing. You just don't know what you're watching because if you did, you would not have said it then.
if they are going to have fencing, take off the arnor sharpen the swords and let them go at it. when you draw blood you get a point. now we have an event worth watching.
This is going to be one of the few times where I say if you have not done something, then do not go around and telling people how it should be "fixed"
This is also where I point out how many people could be killed if you even just took off the mask, not to mention all the other protective gear.
2) By your comment, I could respond with:
Olympic archery is boring as all heck. I vote that we now have two archers standing opposite each other, first to hit the other person wins.
On a more serious note, take off the damn high tech fancy gadgetry from the bows. This is archery dammit. And yes I do fall under the category of archers who think that bow sights, those funky special grips and all that have no place in archery.
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