Wrapped up in cotton wool

[Jarre]

Is it just me or is Political correctness etc going insane.

When I was a wee boy I was in the cub scouts (yeah dib dib dob, kiss my ass) we were allowed to carry pen knifes as we used them when we went camping, we lit our own camp fires under supervision etc. etc.

The local cub scouts had their annual camp near the woods behind the fire station and my house (I live next door remember, even though I don't work there anymore) We normally open up the fire station at times so they could use the showers etc.

I asked one of the remaining fire crews (remember the station got reduced to one pumper from 2 which is why I was made redundant) why the station wasn't being used this year and why it was just supplying water to a porta cabbin that had been craned in.

This is the reason....

They were not allowed to use the fire stations facilities, because any member of the fire brigade could get access unsupervised and therefore would be a risk to the children.

We also found out, the cubs were not allowed knives anymore as it was deemed an offensive weapon, this means no more building your own shelter like we did when I did it only 10-12 years ago, no cutting wood for a fire, or shaping sticks for path finding. Its now too dangerous. Only one member of staff was allowed to have a knife and that had to be locked away when not in use. Also they were not allowed to make their own camp fire, there was only allowed one campfire which had to be at regulated distances and the kids had to sit a regulated distance away, no marshmallows, etc. The only reason they could have a campfire in the first place was the site was behind a crewed fire station!!! If it wasn’t there then they wouldn’t be allowed that. The food had to be tined and no meat in case it wasn't cooked properly and most nights they went to the local Burger King to get their main meal. They all had to sleep in single tents on their own, no sharing, and a staff member was on patrol all night to make sure that rule was done (and the forms and background checks staff members had to go through was as one quoted extremely complex).

When I was a cub scout we learned discipline, responsibility, how to cook etc. What are these kids learning? It has gone too far where kids are just not learning about life, they learn a cushioned version that never prepares them for when they leave home, why have we let it get to this stage?

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Wrapped up in cotton wool

Yes the Scouts here have been "dummy downed" too. I was a troop and pack leader for many years. I heard so many stories from fathers about how they did it back in the day. Unfortunately they were in for a rude awakening. We have a large county forest here near my home and there is a building you can rent for the weekend if you are an organization. I thought it would be lovely to get the younger scouts into the woods in preperation for Boy Scouts.

Ya...great idea....a WHOOOOOOOLE LOT of paperwork and red tape. I had to have the facilities inspected. Then the report came back and was filled with "this would have to be fixed" "this needs adjustment" "this is absolutely out"....and so on. There were bunks, 3 high......no kids allowed in anything but the bottom bunks even though they were bolted to the walls, made of thick timbers, and had guards on them. (Oh and of course a parent comes with every child on the field trip so.....) No roasting marshmellows because pointed sticks or any other implement to put over the fire could inflict harm if used incorrectly. Not to mention A FIRE IN A FOREST WOMAN WHAT ARE YOU THINKING OF...which is basically what the report said. LOL (There was a premade fire pit at the site and the surrounding area was cleared of debris, etc. It was well maintained.) Food could not be brought in and prepared in case there might be food allergies (their parents would be there ><) or undercooked meat, etc. What we thought would be a simple outing, turned into a freakin nightmare.

So you know what I did and I did it for YEARS? I signed the papers and crossed all the t's and dotted all the i's and we went on our little field trip. We brought along all the makings for make your own personal pizzas and let the kids create their own. Afterwards we went outside and roasted marshmallows. At night the kids got to sleep in whatever bunk they wanted to, with parental approval. So I basically thumbed my nose at the main office and let the kids have fun. And did they ever! I wish I still had the pictures (lost in the flood) with one in particular. They practiced their knots.....on me.....they tied me up! LOL

[Malacite]

Re: Wrapped up in cotton wool

Why even bother then? I mean the entire point is to teach these old skills to kids and for them to learn to work as a group and socialize etc...


I never did this sort of thing when I was little admittedly (I'm not that big on the outdoors except with a certain someone ~.^) but I do get why people do this, and it seems like they're killing off any reason to be in scouts one by one all in the name of "Safety". next thing you know they'll be banning knives from cooking classes...

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Wrapped up in cotton wool

In our local high school, in home education, all sharp knives are under lock and key. If a recipe requires one, the student must request it and sign it out and back in again.

Scouts are absolutely one of the best things for young boys. I am a true believer that even now, in their current condition, they are still a great benefit. While I understand the point of safety, I do believe they've gone too far. One of the things I would like to see though is more parental involvement. Currently, you ask for volunteers for some events. Getting them is worse than pulling teeth. Parents use the Scouts like a babysitting service and its a damn shame. They don't like to participate with their sons in events and when asked to they would rather pull their son out than do so. When I was leader, I used to have to stand up there and shame them into helping.

[Jarre]

Re: Wrapped up in cotton wool

Scouts are absolutely one of the best things for young boys.

Don't forget the girls, it was un PC to not let girls be scouts so now they are able to become a scout.

[pieaholicx]

Re: Wrapped up in cotton wool

Don't forget the girls, it was un PC to not let girls be scouts so now they are able to become a scout.

Are we talking just Venture Scouts here or more than that? I mean, I knew about Venture but if they're letting them into Cub Scouts or Boy Scouts that's kind of weird.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Wrapped up in cotton wool

In the U.S. there are Cub Scouts (for boys), Boy Scouts (older boys), Brownies (younger girls), and Girl Scouts (older girls).

Jarre, I wasn't as big a fan of the girl scouts as I was the Cub/Boy Scouts. My daughter lost interest quickly.

[Vyuru]

Re: Wrapped up in cotton wool

And just why can't kids use knives? I think it's all silly for the most part.

I had, oh, I'd say about 3.5-4 inch half serrated half straight single edged knife made by Spyderco, and that's the total knife size folded. Keep in mind that was my little kiddie knife for farm work >.> My current knife, also single edged, half serrated, half straight because I like that for what I use it for, is a tad bigger, just under 5 inches folded and about a 3 1/4 to a 3 3/4 inch blade, depending on how you measure it.

Of course, I suppose it's all perception. I generally don't consider single edged knifes, strait or serrated or a combo thereof, to be weapons. I consider them tools that can be used as a weapon. Those kinds of knifes I'd be fairly comfortable with my kids using, once they are of a responsible age, which for my sister and I, came much earlier than most other kids.

However I do own a knife that I consider a weapon, and I would not let any kid, or even anyone outside of either my Dad or Sister touch it. (Knife can be seen at: Custom Knife Boot Knife Dagger Grind ) The kinda cool thing is that the knife in the picture is my knife, and I can assure you that the pics don't do it justice

I guess I would have to retract the statement that I think it's all silly. It really does depend on the kid. As I said, my Sister and I were pretty responsible pretty early on, we had to be. When my Mom got sick, my Sister was running the house at about 12, and while I was responsible for some things, I'd say my full responsibilities didn't kick in until about 10 or so. Since we never got out much or interacted with other kids, I tend to think of how we would react with a knife, other kids may not do that and maturity hits people at different points in life.

While I will sit back and agree with TGM about the majority of the response she got were silly, like the no cooking marshmellows on sticks over a fire, WTF is up with that, especially on a camping trip? I don't even like marshmellows but it's like a tradition! You don't mess with tradition! I will say though that I do know of kids who poked their eye out because they were having mock sword fights with sticks and just, other stuff like that. So I can kinda see where they are coming from.

On the other hand though, if they have BOTH a scout master AND parental supervision, let 'em go wild. I'd generally expect the scout master to oversee everything in general and for the parents to oversee their kids.

I'll also say that my brief stint in the Cub Scouts and my Sister's brief stint in the Brownies left much to be desired.

no cutting wood for a fire

I'm guessing no hatchets are allowed? Besides, why'd you cut wood with a knife for a fire... Why not just break it with your hands/feet/legs/whatever? Generally speaking, anything that you can't snap across your thigh, or anything that can't be broken by breaking it with your foot is sized just right for axe/hatchet work. Heck, even as a kid I could break wood that was up to 2 inches in diameter, it's not that hard.

Also, if I'm the dude responsible for the knife, it's gonna be on my person where it's handy and where I can keep an eye on it and not in some locked box where I can't keep an eye on it and it's not handy.

General rule of thumb is that if I don't trust people with something, or want it safe, it's either going to be on my person or somewhere safe like a gunsafe. No messing around with boxes whose lock can be picked or broken.

I dunno, I think it's all silly and a load of who-ha. Just be a good parent and take care of your kids the right way. Frankly this is why I'm going to home school my kids when I eventually have some, besides, the public school system sucks from what I have seen of the vast majority of people who go through it.

And for the record, before people here start thinking that I'm some weapons nut or something. I have always been interested in blacksmithing/metal work/knife making, my Dad's side of the family has been in that work for something like the last 200+ years with the exception of my Grandpa on my Dad's side of the family. The urge to work metal, or work with my hands is surprisingly strong. Also I like things that work, and work well, and are functional, hence my interest in guns for the most part.

[Feba]

Re: Wrapped up in cotton wool

That isn't political correctness. That's being overprotective; on a government's behalf, being a nanny state, and this is exactly the kind of shit you've supported numerous times in other threads.


Is it bad? yes. Do you have any room to bitch? Absolutely not.

[Malevolent]

Re: Wrapped up in cotton wool

With all these new rules...doesn't that kinda make eagle scout unattainable due to some of the merit badges needed nixed because of these new regulations?

Also the camping event Alpha Lupus (winter camping outing) kinda out of the question...the same with so many other merit badges, outings event etc etc...

[Lmnop]

Re: Wrapped up in cotton wool

My current knife, also single edged, half serrated, half straight because I like that for what I use it for

This made me think of the show, Dexter. You're not an admirer of his handiwork, are you? (show about a serial killer)

[Vyuru]

Re: Wrapped up in cotton wool

This made me think of the show, Dexter. You're not an admirer of his handiwork, are you? (show about a serial killer)

No, I haven't heard of that show before.

For starting a cut in things like say, sheets of plastic, I tend to like straight edged knives, for continuing the cut, and for cutting rope, cutting open bales of hay, bags of feed, I favor the serrated part.

The problem with the fully serrated knives is that the serrations continue up to the point of the knife, making it a very weak point on the knife. If you drop it or something, and if it lands on the point, it has a decent chance of snapping at the tip.

Too, the serrated part doesn't seem to need to be sharpend that much, dull or not, it'll still cut through things like rope pretty easily. A straight edged knife on the other hand needs to be kept sharp all the time otherwise it's much harder to cut through things.

There are a few things that I'd only use a serrated knife for, say for butchering birds, but that's the only thing I can think of where I would prefer a fully serrated knife over a half/half or straight edged. Feathers dull knives FAST, and can be hard to cut through.

So basically, there are some things a straight edged knife is good for, and some things that a serrated knife is good for, going for the half straight/half serrated combines the best of both worlds.

Great, now I'm being compared to a show about a serial killer

[Satori]

Re: Wrapped up in cotton wool

Well on monday night a woman was stabbed to death by her teenage son, right behind my parent's house.
I'm glad they cant have knives anymore.
Children here have no respect for authority and live believing that if you want something take it no matter what the cost.
Plus here in the uk kids are stabbbing kids, It's rediculous!

whatever happened to throwing rocks and chasing each other with dog-poo on a stick?

The scouts used to be a very respectable institution but with all things nowadays children will avoid anything that will shape them into decent members of the comunity.
They'd rather run drugs for dealers insted of earning badges.

Anyone else thinks this happened when it became an offence to give your kids a good old slap?
"And before anyone jumps on that one, I dont mean kicking the crap out of them"

Parenting is too relaxed and people have too many rights,

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Wrapped up in cotton wool

Kids need minor physical discipline to teach them boundaries. What line they can and can not cross. It's that simple. If a parent does that and does it right, by the time the kid is 7 or 8, they won't need hardly any physical discipline anymore. After the age of 8, the most I had to give my kids was a cuff upside the head. They knew what lines not to cross, they knew what would happen if they did, and they DIDN'T DO IT.

As to parents, the current batch are too worried about themselves. They work too hard, they work too long, they need some "me" time......here kid go play a video game or watch a DVD. Back in the day at Scout meetings, parents actively participated and spent time with their kids. Thats why giving them pocket knives was ok because parents were there to supervise and take it away. Parents volunteered, made snacks, and wanted to be a part of the "pack". Now they just use it as a babysitting service "Hey honey want to go out Tuesday evening, Billy has a Scouting event and will be gone for 2 hours." "Don't we have to go to that?" "Nah, he can tag along with Bobby's family and then we can go try out that new restuarant/see that movie we've been wanted to!" Who suffers? The child because the parents are too irresponsible to raise their own kid correctly. It's why the children are the way they are nowadays. Of course, there is always the small % that come from a decent home that turn out bad, but thats a very slight number. Dig deeper if the home seems decent, you'd be amazed at what you find. I know, I work with teens and some of the "decent" homes are some of the worst.


(EDIT: Oh ya, Dexter is an AWESOME show actually. A serial killer thats boyish cute, is a cop, and you end up liking. LOL)

[Lmnop]

Re: Wrapped up in cotton wool

@Vyuru: Worry not, friend. I saw this.

And for the record, before people here start thinking that I'm some weapons nut or something. I have always been interested in blacksmithing/metal work/knife making, my Dad's side of the family has been in that work for something like the last 200+ years with the exception of my Grandpa on my Dad's side of the family. The urge to work metal, or work with my hands is surprisingly strong. Also I like things that work, and work well, and are functional, hence my interest in guns for the most part.

And I've met people who know as much for less reason. I just had to make the jab.

(incidentally, it's an awesome show if you're not dissuaded by CSI+HBO-level dismembered bodies)